groin strike effectiveness

[Ahriman]

My best friend trains in Krav Maga (and WMA) and witnessed a very interesting thing. At their school, wearing cups is "very strongly recommended" at all times in class. Their instructor was showing a technique on one of the guys involving kneeling into his groin. He showed once - class started staring. "Ok, so you don't get it, I'll show it another time" and did so. Even more staring. "Ok, so last time" and demonstrated the technique the third time. At last he asked why did the entire class except the guy and the instructor turn white. The guy answered "I'm not wearing any groin protection". Then the instructor turned white as well.
It is exceptional but does occur thus we always use an instant follow up regardless how the target responded. My training partners don't really like when I kneel them in the groin only to gain some extra leverage for a throw or push.
...
sgtmac_46: thanks for mentioning these less common possibilities - but even as they are quite rare, not preparing for those cases is reliance on pure luck, and luck sometimes runs out thus it's very important to keep them in mind.

 

[shihansmurf]

I wouldn't rely on the groin strike,but it could be a deterrant or open another window of opportunity. I certainly wouldn't pass it up if the opportunity presented itself.

Exactly.A shot to the boys is a good way to get the opponent to open themselves up for moves that knock them out or allow you to immobilize them.

There is a great weakness in relying on any one move to end every altercation. Faith in the "Magic Bullet Technique" is one of the easiest ways to get hurt in a real altercation.One of my early instructors had a saying, "Since 100% of the people don't react the same way to the same technique 100% of the time, then no technique is 100% effective".

I'm not a big fan of soft tissue attacks or "vital point" hits as a primary means to protect myself in an altercation. Solid, basic, punching and kicking skills that target easy to hit areas are my bread and butter. Jab/cross to the face, round kick to the outer thigh, front thrust kick to lead leg or stomach, the yellow belt stuff.All the "advanced" movements that involve eye gouges, groin shots, ear claps, nerve center activations, and the like, while high payoff, are difficult to hit with in a fight. I'll take gross motor skills over fine ones when I have adrenaline coursing through my system any day.If you cant punch me in the face with your fist then you ain't gonna poke me in the eye with your finger. On a similar note, if you can't kick me in the gut then you aren't too likely to land a kick to my jewels.

Just my view on things
Mark

 

[Deaf Smith]

How about just a simple test. Have a friend kick you full power in the groin and see if you still can fight.

Simple, no?

Any takers?

Deaf

 

[sgtmac_46]

How about just a simple test. Have a friend kick you full power in the groin and see if you still can fight.

Simple, no?

Any takers?

Deaf

It's a good point......but you also need to keep in mind that what will drop a man in such a circumstances as 'Kick me in the Jimmy' time will not necessarily drop him when he's got a head full of steam and body full of adrenaline.

Take the same circumstance above, but in this instance YOU are the one getting hit by a man intent on harming your family......you are in fear not only for your life but the life of your family. Are you going to be stopped by a kick to the groin?

The human body is an extraordinary machine......and is endowed with biological counters developed through millions of years of evolution and combat. We have chemicals within our bodies that counteract the temporary effects of pain and fatigue.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Ok, all you have to do is like Massad Ayoob did with shooting. An injection of endorphins. Once you are jacked up, take a hit down there.

Oh, BTW, I've been kicked twice there sparring. I did spinning heal kicks and the other guy did back kicks right in the groin. Knocked me down both times. Took the steam out of me for about a minute or two.

Deaf

 

[sgtmac_46]

Ok, all you have to do is like Massad Ayoob did with shooting. An injection of endorphins. Once you are jacked up, take a hit down there.

Oh, BTW, I've been kicked twice there sparring. I did spinning heal kicks and the other guy did back kicks right in the groin. Knocked me down both times. Took the steam out of me for about a minute or two.

Deaf

Sparring and fighting for your life are a WORLD APART!

Even the body reacts differently. Men sometimes get shot in the middle of a fight for their life and don't even know it until later.

Relying on pain is a shaky proposition...no matter HOW painful a groin shot is, at the end of the day it's pain and not dysfunction. In other words if you don't feel it, it has no effect. Most men will feel it, many will be slowed down or stopped by it.....some men won't.



Or, imagine this......you're being chased by a lion that is trying to EAT YOU.......and in the process you run in to a hard object the strikes you in the groin much like the kick you experienced in sparring......are you really just going to lay there hanging on to your manhood as the lion catches you and eats you? NO! You're probably not even going to feel it until you're safe and have a chance to calm down.......your mind will tell your body 'NOT IMPORTANT! We'll worry about it LATER! KEEP MOVING! LION! LION! LION!'

 

[Ahriman]

sgtmac_46: good point with the lion example, but the same can be done consciously as well - like when I injure myself while working. The last major thing was when I was stupid enough to grab the horn of my anvil - I forgot it was HOT and burned most of the skin from my right palm before I felt the pain (a few weeks before that I peeled the nail from my thumb and ignored that as well). But as I had to finish that piece, I simply ignored the pain and pulled the anvil where I wanted and kept hammering with said right hand.
Pain is a good tool against one with low tolerance, but do we really want to depend on that? If it hurts the other, fine, but what if it doesn't or if the other just ignores the pain?

 

[Brian S]

One word of advice for all you groin strikers. I've been hit in the groin many times in my life. By my sister,during sparring,fights on the street (in a restaurant,lol) etc..
At 31yrs old I developed Testicular Cancer. I can promise you it wans't a fun ordeal. (I've been rid of it for 2 1/2yrs now)
Although the exact cause isn't pinpointed one of the many speculations is that it may be caused by trauma or scar tissue that becomes cancerous over time. This may or may not be the case,but I have my suspicions. (purely speculative)
I see all these 'nutcases' (pun intended) on the internet and tv purposefully racking eachother and themselves and I wonder......

BTW, I'm 50% less likely to be racked anymore.

 

[tshadowchaser]

At this moment I am not going back through this whole thread to see if I have said this before but Groin Strikes can and have caused people to go into shock and die. I know because I had a friend died that way.
Yes they can be painful and yes some people just keep fighting but there are medical conditions that can happen immediately and some that take a time to happen because of groin strikes. My advice when practicing them is be extremely careful and use control.

 

[BLACK LION]

* there is a big difference between a shot to the nuts... and a torn scrotum or ruptured testicle... if you do not get a basic spinal reflex(bending of the knees, leaning forward and poking out the chin) then you did not strike the target correctly.... that reflex is basic....the most extreme being the guys feet lifting of the ground and him slamming his knees and face into the ground....

* one should never rely on any single effective strike.... one should rely on every strike being effective(causing trauma to the central nervous system)

* continue to cause traumatic effects in the opposition by targeting specific areas until they are no longer a threat.... shut down thier brain or thier cns

 

[BLACK LION]

I'm not a big fan of soft tissue attacks or "vital point" hits as a primary means to protect myself in an altercation. Solid, basic, punching and kicking skills that target easy to hit areas are my bread and butter. Jab/cross to the face, round kick to the outer thigh, front thrust kick to lead leg or stomach, the yellow belt stuff.All the "advanced" movements that involve eye gouges, groin shots, ear claps, nerve center activations, and the like, while high payoff, are difficult to hit with in a fight. I'll take gross motor skills over fine ones when I have adrenaline coursing through my system any day.If you cant punch me in the face with your fist then you ain't gonna poke me in the eye with your finger. On a similar note, if you can't kick me in the gut then you aren't too likely to land a kick to my jewels.

Just my view on things
Mark

*I respect your training....but this far from the reality of a violent confrontation and more along the lines of "combat sports".... all of the movements that you stated are elastic and although may be accompanied with great speed and strenghth....they lack the rotation/penetration required to inflict true trauma and render the opposintion non-functional....
soft tissue attacks are exactly what being performed when you strike the human body with your body weapons...the payoff is targeting specific areas that cause traumatic response in the central nervous system in an attempt to shut off thier most powerful weapon which is thier brain......
if you train to target and you know the reaction or the effect that striking that target has then you control the outcome.... the man who causes the first injury is the one likely to go home.... you can punch and kick each other all night, it happens on t.v. all the time....

 

[Deaf Smith]

sgtmac_46,

Well if that's the case then most kicks and punchs will do nothing either. Plenty of people have taken mutiple gunshots and stood (or ran.) So we all know to keep shooting (or kicking and punching) till they drop, right?

Still,the groin is an exposed organ that has a huge number of nerve endings. If one has the shot, I'd take it.

Deaf

 

[sgtmac_46]

sgtmac_46,

Well if that's the case then most kicks and punchs will do nothing either. Plenty of people have taken mutiple gunshots and stood (or ran.) So we all know to keep shooting (or kicking and punching) till they drop, right?

Still,the groin is an exposed organ that has a huge number of nerve endings. If one has the shot, I'd take it.

Deaf

One stop kicks and punches don't work all the time and where they do work it's more the result of a lack of commitment on the part of the person hit....the difference between a knock out and a groin shot, however, is that a knock out causes loss of function.....and since the testicles do not have to operate in order for the subject to keep fighting, you are relying on the pain they cause........and pain tolerances vary, including those who are completely dissociated from pain via mental illness or drug use.

So the point is that a groin shot MAY or MAY NOT work.

 

[BLACK LION]

a rupture testicle causes a spinal reflex that cannot be controlled by the effected body.... leaving them open for further trauma

if you strike a groin and there is no reaction then you did not strike correctly or effectively.... if you put your body behind your medium you will see the effect of a groin strike....

 

[Deaf Smith]

One stop kicks and punches don't work all the time

Nothing works all the time sgtmac. Even a knockout shot.

So the point is that a groin shot MAY or MAY NOT work.

And that is why, no matter what you do, you keep going till they are down. A solar plexus shot may not down someone, but does that mean you don't try for it if it's open? Or a chin shot or knee strike? Or even a groin strike.

You go for what's available with what weapons you have and keep going till it's over.

Deaf

 

[sgtmac_46]

a rupture testicle causes a spinal reflex that cannot be controlled by the effected body.... leaving them open for further trauma

if you strike a groin and there is no reaction then you did not strike correctly or effectively.... if you put your body behind your medium you will see the effect of a groin strike....

You've obviously never met an enraged 6'2 250lb man high on PCP......when you do all your 'theories' will fly right out the window.

A department near Kansas City had a guy high on PCP who cut his own testicles off with a knife and then walked around an apartment building with them in his hand......guess he didn't get your memo.

I'm not trying to belabor the point, i'm only saying that while the book says a good testicle shot 'should' work......sometimes the bad guy didn't read the book.....good thing to keep in mind.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Nothing works all the time sgtmac. Even a knockout shot.

Which was my point.

And that is why, no matter what you do, you keep going till they are down. A solar plexus shot may not down someone, but does that mean you don't try for it if it's open? Or a chin shot or knee strike? Or even a groin strike.

You go for what's available with what weapons you have and keep going till it's over.

Deaf

I agree 100%.

 

[Kwanjang]

And be careful not to run into the guy from the Steve Martin movie "The Jerk" I believe his name was Iron B--ls McGinty.

Now thats funny :lfao:

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Groin shots would not be a priority in striking for me. That doesn't mean I won't use them, if an opportunity is there it will be taken, but its not a target I'd seek out. Just one I'd make use of while going onto more reliable attacks.

My problem with them is this: First off, people's reactions to them vary too much, and adrenaline dump runs too high a risk of negating it. Some people will drop right away, others might not react at all and others would have a delayed reaction.
More often than not the response Ive seen is the third one, where the effects would hit the person a minute or two after the strike.
So, that rules it out as a fight-ender of a strike, a minute is FAR too long a period of time in which someone is still able to do some damage.
It does however mean it can be useful as part of a cumulative attack, so long as you can keep up the offensive momentum.
I would suggest only hitting them there if an easy opportunity presents itself though, because there's strikes that are more likely to have a fast or direct effect on the target.

Second is the issue of training. Any technique I cannot practice full force regularly and test the results of consistently, I WILL NOT rely on. I might make use of them, but they are lower down in my toolbox as it were. Strikes of opportunity not of priority.

 

[BLACK LION]

I love the 50% head in the sand mentality.... and thanks for the absolute worst case scenario that most of us will not encounter...even still his balls are gone but he wasnt attacking anyone just walking around with them....
no one is telling you to rely on just a groin strike....but at the same time there are those of you who would discredit it all together.... being hit in the nuts does not feel good.... some people get hurt/injured or die and very few dont react at all....

if I tell you that gouging out an eye is effective people will come around with stories about people cutting out thier eyes and walking around with them....

the point his having a 100% mentality all the time .... the point is injuring them until satisified.... the point is not to rely on one strike one kill.... the point is to keep striking till they are not functioning.... I understand that not everything will work all the time but something will.... and as long as one is repeatedly targeting areas that are scientifically and medically proven to provide traumatic results then that is all that one can expect.... always causing effects in the other person.... not the one effected by cause....

if i got dinged in the nuts it would be uncomfortable at least.... i would definately keep fighting...but if my eyes were gouged after that along with a ruptured eardrum a crushed adams apple etc... i doubt i can keep going and if i was high... i think my body would eventually shut me down from shock or suffocation