groin strike effectiveness

[tsunami]

I would agree that no one should ever depend on any one particular strike to work or end a fight. I got hit in the family jewels one time, with a ball made of tape and had all of the reactions decribed in prior threads (minus shock and death) getting hit in exatly the right way can be very effective. I do train with a cup though. Firstly because I do not have kids yet and secondly so my opponent can practice proper technique and depth penetration. Question. I saw a UFC or mabey a Pride fight were one guy repeatedly hit his opponent (an asian man) in the groin which caused him to tap out. The man who did it won his bout. Has anyone seen this fight? Is this allowed in Pride fights or any other?

George

 

[JDenz]

Hackeny agianst Joe Son? It was actully a throat choke that he used.

 

[More_Tunes_Dude]

I witnessed a street fight a couple years back. I learned 2 big lessons from watching it. A guy yelled at a car as it passed, so the car pulled over and the dude jumped out, reached behind his seat, and pulled out a 3' long steel bar and ran after the original dude yelling at him.
They exchanged words and threats and then the guy w/ the metal bar kicked the other fella in the groin. And I was about 200 feet away and I heard the kick land and I saw the guy lifted off the ground. Minimal change except to make him madder.
He came after the guy w/ the metal bar, who kept swinging it to keep distance. It became apparent in short order the he was actually unwilling to use the hunk of metal. As soon as that was obvious, the other (who was just kicked) moved in quickly, took the bar away, and proceeded to start using against the original owner. Then a cop showed up (amazingly quickly).
The whole thing (after the yelling anyway) lasted perhaps 45 seconds or a minute. About a minute later the guy who was nailed in the groin slowly fell to the ground and curled up in ball. An ambulance dragged them both away.

my lessons?
1) groin kicks, no matter how hard, can not be 100% counted on to have the expected/desired result.
2) never pull a weapon you are unwilling to use, as it will be used against you.

cheers

 

[punisher73]

I agree with the posts that say about it's a good shot but not a fight ender and people react differently. Also, that it is a good place to strike to get the opponent to move in a different way to set up for another shot.

People can die from a hard shot to the groin. As one person talked about especially if the testicle is ruptured. There are alot of "non-lethal" injuries that people die from because for whatever reason they do go into shock and die. i remember going through the police academy and they showed us the story of a cop that was shot in the hand or someplace like that and he panicked so much he did go into shock and die and there was no medical reason he should have (ie: internal damage, loss of blood, etc.)

 

[7starmantis]

First, I would like to throw up after reading this whole thread. Man, after reading it all I feel like I've been kicked in the boys about 50 times!
Ok, I think there are too many statements in this thread that are used as facts. No two kicks or hits are the same. People are using statements of truth which are false because they haven't taken into account the millions of variables that change from one kick to the next. I even read, "if it dont work, kick them again"; how hard would it be to pull off the same move twice on a skilled fighter? Groin shots are like anything else, hit and move, go on to the next technique. If you stop at any technique regardless of what it is, your opening yourself up for loosing the fight, and quickly.

Just my opinion,
7sm

 

[Kenpodoc]

I agree with the posts that say about it's a good shot but not a fight ender and people react differently. Also, that it is a good place to strike to get the opponent to move in a different way to set up for another shot.

People can die from a hard shot to the groin. As one person talked about especially if the testicle is ruptured. There are alot of "non-lethal" injuries that people die from because for whatever reason they do go into shock and die. i remember going through the police academy and they showed us the story of a cop that was shot in the hand or someplace like that and he panicked so much he did go into shock and die and there was no medical reason he should have (ie: internal damage, loss of blood, etc.)

I've unfortunately watched enough people die to know that healthy young people do not die easily or gracefully. It is much harder to kill someone than Movie lore or martial arts legend would suggest. People do not die from panic, They don't die from hand injuries or groin injuries (unless they are penetrating injuries and they exsanguinate or infected injuries that are not treated.) If you could kick hard enough to shatter the pelvis and lacerate a major vessel you might kill them. Dying from a ruptured testical is an Urban Legend. I suspect the police academy story is also but would be interested in seeing the medical report. People by definition rarely die from "non-lethal" injuries and when they do there are usually other issues such as underlying cardiac disease involved. This is not to make light of the discomfort involved in these injuries, but don't rely on them as stoppers.

Jeff

 

[KenpoNoChikara]

Well, I haven't had any firsthand experience with such a situation, but I think it would be effective, but woulden't totally end the fight either.

 

[chinto01]

Forget the lead legs what about the feeling like you are going to throw up in your shoes? Groin strikes are effective and with a quick follow up can be devestating!!!

 

[still learning]

thanks guys for the info...I never realize this strike may not hurt some of our attackers? We practice multiply strikes and the groin area is one of them. Never realize it may not effect the guys getting hit there. Thanks again!

Many years ago as a young karate student, we were sparring (no cups in those days) and I got kick good in the groin(accident) but I went down and the lights seem to have gone out! Boy did it hurt....than I give it up and never went back....somtimes I wonder if I was not hit, would I have kept on the training? It was like 10 years later before I got back! One never forgets hits like those! When someone says DUCK, isn't this a natural reaction for most of us...unless you have no experience? Mahalo...a hawaiian word for Thank-you.....and ALOHA

To the makers of the site...Great stuffs being share!!! ...to say something like, neat,cool,sharp,howzit...in Hawaii we say..SHAKA....SHAKA again

 

[GaryM]

And one more thing about groin shots, eye shots, or other vital areas... It dont take a chainsaw to cut hot butter, dont use a sledge hammer to swat a fly, those are quotes my instructor says all the time, mostly to the women because a woman can never be stronger than the average male opponent 98% of the time ,but they can be faster, smarter, and have better technique, so remember that while striking on vital targets.

I totally agree with this, the immediate effect of a 'light' snap to the groin seems to be more reliable than the 'bury your foot up to the ankle' type shot. I think that the damage from the 'heavy' strike tends to cause the area to go into shock. However as some above stated a strong thrusting kick to the area will control the hips and height. G.

 

[distantproximity]

Hi all you martial artists out there. I aint no martial artist, but over the years by choice or chance have participated in numerous street fights. I have hit people on almost all body parts.(I have myself been hit on all of them, including my testicles.)
The groin strike happens to be the most mean move and it inflicts the greatest pain possible. I am around 5'7'' tall with an athletic built. I once had a fight with a bouncer (6'3'') in a discotheque. He, with his big palms squeezed my neck muscles. As I went down I had no other option but to strike him with my forearms in his nuts. True example of hitting below the belt!! And the big man had both his hands clinched to his scrotum with tears in his eyes. I managed to escape.
From that day onwards I have realised the effectiveness of the move. It can bring even the toughest of opponents down on their feet.
Although few martial artists have commented that it is not as effective as it seems, but for me it has worked wonders.
But it should be kept in mind that this move is the last resort. Because not only it is the ultimate form of agony, if struck rather hard, your opponent could also become impotent.
Whether or not it could cause death is a matter of debate. I have not yet known of an incident where a man died because of an injury in the testicles.
But for all amateaur guys reading this(I am myself not formally trained in Martial arts!!), DO NOT USE this move till it becomes absolutely necessary. As I said before only as a last resort. Other painful moves could be the forearm rub (with your nails on the opponets forearms-dont underestimate this one, its a real killer) or a punch in the last pair of ribs(preferably with an upward 'hook' motion) or even a punch on the area just above the hip (the place where kidneys are located).
And guys do let me know of any ways of defending yourself from the groin strike.

 

[Bodhisattva]

I have read various posts on this board and others by people who say that they have firsthand experience of hard groin strikes not working. Even people who say they have gone on and won street fights, after taking a hard groin strike. Cobra even started a thread about taking a groin shot on purpose. I have taken a few really hard accidental kicks in the groin in the dojo and given a couple too, and while I understand it might not end a fight, as part of a combination it would definitely have an effect. Thing about it to me is not just the initial pain, but the really heavy feeling in the legs, like someone has poured molten lead in them, and also the loss of wind, making you feel out of gas. What causes this? anyway, strikes to the groin are definitely part of my emergency arsenal. Does anyone out there not believe groin strikes are effective? Why or why not? How about effective in combinations of other techniques?

The groin strike is a GREAT shot to score on someone.

However, it is not an "instant fight ender" - unless the person attacking you was only half-hearted.

A determined opponent will NOT typically drop to the ground clutching his groin if you hit him there.

It DOES however HURT a heck of a lot.

I think of a groin shot in the same way I think of a really good shot to the nose.

Or a liver shot.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I agree with the previous statements that a heavy hit to the groin tends to put the region in to shock, and lesson the impact.

I like to use the 'nut-slap' groin shot.......a quick back-hand flip in to the groin THE VAST MAJORITY of the time causes a predictable response.....and that is that the person drops his hands toward his groin, his chin juts out and he bends forward.........this is immediately followed by a forearm or hook to the now jutted forward jaw......if you time it just right, he leans forward IN TO the strike just as it's hitting. Sometimes to bend forward is so dramatic and quick that you have to avoid accidentally getting headbutted by the guy.

Less seems to be more with the groin shot......you can get a better response grazing the groin with a quick flip of your hand or fingers, than sometimes kicking someone in it.

 

[BLACK LION]

a ruptured testicle will cause a spinal reflex that will either drop him or put him in a squatting position and either way both of his hands will go to the area of trauma not out of thought but reflex.... he may even look at them too ...... if you are tearing the scrotum then they will land pretty much wherever you want them to


it is important to strike using the entire body.... not to hit....or kick or punch.... a punch or kick could fail on a bigger stronger guy....

the focus should be to use ones body weight to strike to testicles in a manner that would push them out his mouth(not really) but thats the thought process... or to tear the scrotum by grabbing twisting and ripping by lifting them up

a slap or palm heel works well.... also a good knee drop or stomp.... but when in doubt just grap a handful and lift em up

 

[actuarialgal]

Every groin shot I have ever seen or dealt at a minimum caused the person to exhale, partially bend over, and reach for the crotch. At that point you need to continue the attack, as that may only buy you a little time. I have seen people shake it off quickly, but it always caused that delay.

Eyes and throat are generally open immediately after the shot to the groin.

 

[Imminent]

Black Lion and actuarial girl are dead on. The reaction of the body to a serious groin shot (ie ruptured testicle is the goal) is controlled in the spinal loop reflex. There are five primary kinds of reflexive arcs in the body you can induce the groin is either withdrawal or reflex reaction and it is not somethign you can learn to endure. I would suggest that anyone who has trained to be kicked in the groin has not been struck with the intent to rupture their testies. Had that goal focused on with intent on the training session they would have been in the ER for the resulting injury and training would be over. If you think you can really train the testies for pain control rather than its proper reaction source (ie spinal loop) the try this experiment to see the difference; sit down with testicles in fornt of your pelvis and have your partenr stomp on them with his heel as hard as you can. If you can condition yourself to the pain I applaud you, if you can endur without suffering the spinal reflexive response, you are not wired as humans.

 

[Brian S]

I have read various posts on this board and others by people who say that they have firsthand experience of hard groin strikes not working. Even people who say they have gone on and won street fights, after taking a hard groin strike. Cobra even started a thread about taking a groin shot on purpose. I have taken a few really hard accidental kicks in the groin in the dojo and given a couple too, and while I understand it might not end a fight, as part of a combination it would definitely have an effect. Thing about it to me is not just the initial pain, but the really heavy feeling in the legs, like someone has poured molten lead in them, and also the loss of wind, making you feel out of gas. What causes this? anyway, strikes to the groin are definitely part of my emergency arsenal. Does anyone out there not believe groin strikes are effective? Why or why not? How about effective in combinations of other techniques?

I wouldn't rely on the groin strike,but it could be a deterrant or open another window of opportunity. I certainly wouldn't pass it up if the opportunity presented itself.

 

[BLACK LION]

i rely on rupturing testicles whole heartedly.... same with any other weakness the anatomy has

 

[sgtmac_46]

a ruptured testicle will cause a spinal reflex that will either drop him or put him in a squatting position and either way both of his hands will go to the area of trauma not out of thought but reflex.... he may even look at them too ...... if you are tearing the scrotum then they will land pretty much wherever you want them to


it is important to strike using the entire body.... not to hit....or kick or punch.... a punch or kick could fail on a bigger stronger guy....

the focus should be to use ones body weight to strike to testicles in a manner that would push them out his mouth(not really) but thats the thought process... or to tear the scrotum by grabbing twisting and ripping by lifting them up

a slap or palm heel works well.... also a good knee drop or stomp.... but when in doubt just grap a handful and lift em up

Good points.....

 

[sgtmac_46]

Black Lion and actuarial girl are dead on. The reaction of the body to a serious groin shot (ie ruptured testicle is the goal) is controlled in the spinal loop reflex. There are five primary kinds of reflexive arcs in the body you can induce the groin is either withdrawal or reflex reaction and it is not somethign you can learn to endure. I would suggest that anyone who has trained to be kicked in the groin has not been struck with the intent to rupture their testies. Had that goal focused on with intent on the training session they would have been in the ER for the resulting injury and training would be over. If you think you can really train the testies for pain control rather than its proper reaction source (ie spinal loop) the try this experiment to see the difference; sit down with testicles in fornt of your pelvis and have your partenr stomp on them with his heel as hard as you can. If you can condition yourself to the pain I applaud you, if you can endur without suffering the spinal reflexive response, you are not wired as humans.

You are generally correct....but keep in mind that there are violent men out there who, either because of abuse of dissociative anasthetics (PCP) or simply a mind/body disconnect (mentally ill), literally do not feel pain.....in that instance a groin shot will have little if any effect......fortunately those individuals are relatively rare as threats, but they are out there......always have a Plan B...and C....and D.....