Grappling With The Knife!

[BLACK LION]

I agree... I heard of an incident where a threat was so high on pcp that he had castrated himself and was walking around with a blade and his genitalia taunting police... this is why you must continue to effect trauma and injury until they cease function... that buck didnt work right away but maybe he could have used a couple for the head... and if that didnt work then empty the sidearm mag in em too... just dont stop till the jobs done...

You are right.. there is no magical juice to drink thats makes everything foolproof... but with the assertive and decisive action to get them before they get you is what makes or breaks ... being completely unreasonable and unwilling to compromise no matter the cost... in combat and in survival its always about You... ALWAYS... you, you, you... If I am faced with a threat I am intent on stopping it and I will... regardless of the odd or circumstances or whatever.. I will stop them....

 

[BLACK LION]

again... my respect to all of you!

 

[Ron Kosakowski]

I agree... I heard of an incident where a threat was so high on pcp that he had castrated himself and was walking around with a blade and his genitalia taunting police... this is why you must continue to effect trauma and injury until they cease function... that buck didnt work right away but maybe he could have used a couple for the head... and if that didnt work then empty the sidearm mag in em too... just dont stop till the jobs done...

You are right.. there is no magical juice to drink thats makes everything foolproof... but with the assertive and decisive action to get them before they get you is what makes or breaks ... being completely unreasonable and unwilling to compromise no matter the cost... in combat and in survival its always about You... ALWAYS... you, you, you... If I am faced with a threat I am intent on stopping it and I will... regardless of the odd or circumstances or whatever.. I will stop them....

I guess if I run across someone attacking me high on PCP, I am going to wonder why I am having such a bad day.:erg:

All blade oriented martial arts have a grappling aspect to it, the Japanese, Filipino, Indian, Indonesian. My Kuntao teacher use to say this..."you practice these moves in technique, in random drill format and live the best you can so you are scenario training." Scenario training has saved many lives for combat situations. He also used to say that "you have a very good chance of getting cut if not killed." Which can happen weapon VS weapon as well. One little mistake and you are ____ed against someone who is desperate and wants to kill you.

There is a science to it. Not everyone has knife skills out there luckily. But everyone here has to admit, its better to practice it than to ignore the training methods. Most empty hand VS weapon was always practiced to get to an equalizer. I recommend having an equalizer...or two.

 

[BLACK LION]

"There is a science to it. Not everyone has knife skills out there luckily. But everyone here has to admit, its better to practice it than to ignore the training methods. Most empty hand VS weapon was always practiced to get to an equalizer. I recommend having an equalizer...or two. "

+1 on that.

Reality and Actuality scenario training is paramount and imo the only way to gain combative experience outside of actual combat. Force of Force training is a must for me as well.

I like to split reality and actuality up. Reality is based on a persons perception so whatever we stage as part of the scenario is based on what one perceives could happen to them.
Actuality on the other hand is completely at random and based purely on what actually happens. I like to look at one as controlled and the other as uncontrolled.
For example: Reality scenario may set a body next to you with a gun to your head or a knife to your back and have you act from there... basically whatever you can come up with as a way of being attacked and set it up that way.
Actuality scenario is at random and not staged...it would have everything as normal then out of the blue a handshake or some social greeting turns into them pulling a knife and trying to gut you with it. I have been doing this at work lately where I carry a tiny airsoft pistol or a rubber knife and just socialize as normal, then out of the blue try to stab or shoot one of them... they all know me and what I do and besides that I have ex military and bunjinkan practitioners I work with so its fair game.

just some thoughts....

 

[Ron Kosakowski]

"There is a science to it. Not everyone has knife skills out there luckily. But everyone here has to admit, its better to practice it than to ignore the training methods. Most empty hand VS weapon was always practiced to get to an equalizer. I recommend having an equalizer...or two. "

+1 on that.

Reality and Actuality scenario training is paramount and imo the only way to gain combative experience outside of actual combat. Force of Force training is a must for me as well.

I like to split reality and actuality up. Reality is based on a persons perception so whatever we stage as part of the scenario is based on what one perceives could happen to them.
Actuality on the other hand is completely at random and based purely on what actually happens. I like to look at one as controlled and the other as uncontrolled.
For example: Reality scenario may set a body next to you with a gun to your head or a knife to your back and have you act from there... basically whatever you can come up with as a way of being attacked and set it up that way.
Actuality scenario is at random and not staged...it would have everything as normal then out of the blue a handshake or some social greeting turns into them pulling a knife and trying to gut you with it. I have been doing this at work lately where I carry a tiny airsoft pistol or a rubber knife and just socialize as normal, then out of the blue try to stab or shoot one of them... they all know me and what I do and besides that I have ex military and bunjinkan practitioners I work with so its fair game.

just some thoughts....

Yes, we have an airsoft gun at the school. We used to use squirt guns and dart guns and various other toy gun but the airsoft is great...with safety glasses of course. You may like this idea. i use the Sharkee training knives which are only 15 bucks a piece. There are the open folder knives that pretty much represent most of what we all legally carry. Then there is the bigger double edged type. (here is what they look like http://traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/TrainingKnives.html) I put a red lipstick on a With these trainers with the lipstick we can go much harder and more random than we can with the real knives. We go at it pretty good with the real knives but there is a sense of uncomfortableness with the knife weilder. I know, because I also feel uncomfortable doing it with the real knife. the recieving side, i feel more comfortable believe it or not...knowing i can ruin someones day and mark them for life or worse is the uncomfortable feeling. but with the trainers and the lipstick you can still get the same point across (no pun intended). Try it out on any trainer, wood, rubber, plastic. the bigger the lipstick mark, the bigger the slash and then its time to problem solve. Hmmm, how many out there will have to explain the lipstick on their necks at home? More reason to be successful in your training?

However, as an instructor, I still feel the need to break my students of the fear of steel so a real knife is needed at least occassionally for mentality training.

 

[BLACK LION]

Whats that forder called again??? The sharkee trainer??? I have or found everything I need in terms of tools accept practice folders. Thats great cuz I was about to try 100 mph tabe on a dull blade folder and see if that worked. I also like the lipstick idea. I know they have trainers out there with some red felt stuff in it that marks you all up when contacted with it.
There is a time and place for using real blades I feel so I too dont cut them out entirely .... I like the bendable rubber ones because they still hurt a little and they are like 3.00 each so you can equip eveyone with thier own so anyone can get it at anytime during training... So you have it staged and then you have it at random. I know some people come to train with and against the blade but do not carry one on them at all times outside of training...I like to get everyone who trains in the habit of carrying all the time. 1 concealed folder and one open carry fixed blade.

I am really jazzed about those folders you menioned!!!


I use an array of airsoft and replica firearms in the training. Some spring loaded and some with co2. I use what one may commonly come across and that is a revolver- a DA semi auto pistol(glock type)- an SA automatic pistol (colt-browning type) - a pump action shotgun (pistol grip-no stock)
- an ak47 type- an smg type = mp5- and an m16 type-
I also am fancy to those foam louisville slugger replicas at walmart for 5.00... they look like a bat feel like a bat but are soft enough not to injure anyone... just a little pain as a reminder

 

[Carol]

Colored chalk or kids washable paint works too...and is usually easier to clean up than lipstick.

 

[Ron Kosakowski]

Whats that forder called again??? The sharkee trainer??? I have or found everything I need in terms of tools accept practice folders. Thats great cuz I was about to try 100 mph tabe on a dull blade folder and see if that worked. I also like the lipstick idea. I know they have trainers out there with some red felt stuff in it that marks you all up when contacted with it.

Yes, they are called Sharkee due to the shark fin designs in the mid section of the blade itself. I like them because they do not bend like rubber and they still give enough pain to respect the blade when fighting or doing the stationary robbery or hostage situations with resistance.

Pop on the TFW site and take a look at them.

 

[Ron Kosakowski]

Colored chalk or kids washable paint works too...and is usually easier to clean up than lipstick.

I like the washable paint idea. Lipstick comes out in the wash but stays on no matter what during class.

As for the chalk...I am not sure I like that unless there is a furry cloth type of padding of some sort along the edge to hold in the chalk. Most training knives are bare edged lipstick holds well.

 

[Dwight McLemore]

For me and just my humble thoughts as a teacher and retired instructor, I cannot understand why anyone would not want to teach knife grappling as part of their curriculum. It seems to me that even back in the days of the duel fights broke out, people went to the ground and it was not a matter of 'if' but 'When'. Logic says to be prepared for it. Now, that said I also don't see why the squared-off dueling confrontation is not taught either. Yep, the odds of this happening in the culture of the MMA do suggest that it's not as likely but there are parts of the world where people do square off and fight over 'bull-****' . A Spanish fellow gets out of his car and confronts you with a machete....yep, you just went into the dueling scenario. I think one has to set up training priorities as to whether he is doing historic, martial arts, martial sports, self defense, or is preparing for the profession of arms like the military, law enforcement, etc. That I believe is an on-going thing.


All My Best
Dwight

 

[sgtmac_46]

Knife grappling would seem an obvious subject of study for anyone interested in self defense..........as the obvious counter to being in a bad position on the ground in the street is to draw a weapon and cut your way out.........even the most effective rear naked choke, with hooks dug in deep, can be effectively counter if the man getting choked manages to extricate a knife and slice a femoral artery.

In my law enforcement defensive tactics program I train officers to use the muscle and meat shot to the thigh in a situation where they are being choked (repeat as needed).

 

[lklawson]

Knife grappling would seem an obvious subject of study for anyone interested in self defense..........

Additionally, there's tons of documentation that it was an important part of many historic knife fighting systems. Degen has already been mentioned, for example.

as the obvious counter to being in a bad position on the ground in the street is to draw a weapon and cut your way out.........even the most effective rear naked choke, with hooks dug in deep, can be effectively counter if the man getting choked manages to extricate a knife and slice a femoral artery.

Sure thing. At that point, the question is, will he bleed out before you pass out? It's kinda up in the air, but I wouldn't bet money that you wouldn't pass out first. That'd be bad. He may still have several seconds to take revenge upon you before he bleeds out. However, there are several things you can do with that knife that will, um... "encourage" him to leg go of the choke.

In my law enforcement defensive tactics program I train officers to use the muscle and meat shot to the thigh in a situation where they are being choked (repeat as needed).

It's better (by a long shot) than simply passing out, that's for darn sure.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk