Grabs and Holds

[Kenpo Yahoo]

We have always trained that way with grabs being completed. Of course some rediculed me for being "silly" because it makes more sense to move before they do if possible.

Sure it makes more sense to move before they do if possible, because action is faster than reaction. That's why they tell you to drive 2-3 seconds behind other cars instead of a car length, because at higher speeds you reaction time has greater consequences. To be quite honest, it would take a second or longer to realize what was happening if an attacker grabbed you from behind or on the side, so chances are they will lock the hold in. Then what do you do? If you train everything as an "attempted", then what happens when your reaction time isn't what it should be? Do you train with these types of variables in mind? Just curious. Does anybody have any drills they work? or perhaps further concerns, questions, or answers?

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo

I think kenpo teaches some excellent things but in light of my recent training I think that it leaves a few things to be desired.

As long as you realize that's your teachers "problem" and not the Kenpo. Most speak of the Kenpo itself lacking instead of placing the blame on the teacher of the Kenpo. Kenpo is fine, but lots of not so good teachers. (not necessarily yours)

Surely, you being a black belt would know how to grab someone so they can't hit you or even try to do a technique. Well, what would you do if you were grabbed in that manner? There is no reason to assume ignorance on the part of our attacker. Being prepared for the worst and never seeing it is better than hoping that it works in a manner that allows you to do your Belt Manual written technique.

Amen brother, you preaching it right.

Do you practice with dynamic control? I was taught to grab people and destroy their balance and posture as quick as possible.

That's right. Not they have to call you crazy too! I love's company.

What if I was attacked in the same manner? What would I do? These are the kinds of questions that I'm asking, and the kinds of questions that should be asked if you want to keep learning. Not everything can or should be learned from a belt manual.

Now just a dam minute. You spying on me boy? Don't let me catch you peekin'

In all seriousness, you are using your head and bringing forth really legitimate questions that demand reasonable answers. Unfortunately most "instructors" don't have those answers because they received their position by progressing through a limited information structure with an emphasis on proliferation and revenue rather than higher functionality. No knock, just a reality check. Thanks for joining me in the dance. I echo your sentiments exactly.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo
Sure it makes more sense to move before they do if possible, because action is faster than reaction. That's why they tell you to drive 2-3 seconds behind other cars instead of a car length, because at higher speeds you reaction time has greater consequences. To be quite honest, it would take a second or longer to realize what was happening if an attacker grabbed you from behind or on the side, so chances are they will lock the hold in. Then what do you do? If you train everything as an "attempted", then what happens when your reaction time isn't what it should be? Do you train with these types of variables in mind? Just curious. Does anybody have any drills they work? or perhaps further concerns, questions, or answers?

No offense but you really do sound like you have been reading my stuff for years. I've always said the same thing. This is why I don't get invited to camps. I invite those questions and provide physical answers. Keep thinking the way you are thinking.

 

[SingingTiger]

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo
I'm not "grinding" anything. Jeez man, you need to relax. I was under the impression that forums were designed to stimulate conversation. You don't have to agree with me on anything, I'm just looking to see what other people are doing.

That may be, but I read your first few posts exactly the same way that Robert did. When someone writes a question followed with a command to "explain," it doesn't sound like you're just trying to see what other people are doing, it sounds like you're trying to see what other people are doing so that you can correct them. Asking whether or not anyone is "beginning to see" where you're going only reinforces that interpretation.

I've learned a lot by reading these boards. I could probably learn a lot from you. I'll be more open to it if it doesn't sound like you have an axe to grind, but that's just me, your mileage may vary.

Rich

 

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by Doc
We have always trained that way with grabs being completed. Of course some rediculed me for being "silly" because it makes more sense to move before they do if possible. But, what if it isn't possible? What happens when they do grab you and lift? What would you say if I told you I could teach you to keep them from being able to lift you. What if I could insure that both of your feet remain firmly planted on the ground for your next action. If you can't "Survive The Initial Assault,™" you can't move to retaliation can you?

You have my curiousity aroused....

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

When someone writes a question followed with a command to "explain," it doesn't sound like you're just trying to see what other people are doing, it sounds like you're trying to see what other people are doing so that you can correct them.

I asked a yes or no question but was looking to go a little more in depth than this, that is why I followed with EXPLAIN. If you will look back, I still received simple yes or no answers. Maybe next time I should type explain please, but maybe next time some of you shouldn't be so sensitive. Even if I was advocating throwing out all of the techniques and replacing it with techniques performed from a handstand what would it matter? It wouldn't affect you. This is simply a media that was created to aide in the exchange of ideas and creativity, yet everytime someone get's on here to ask a question they are labeled as a heretic for QUESTIONING MR PARKER's ART.

I'm not questioning Mr. Parker's art, I was simply asking if what you were doing worked. I was hoping that people would be willing to share stories, much like Brother John did. I changed the statement to "do your kenpo techniques work...." because I know that kenpo has techs against hold and grabs, but how many associations are represented here? I don't know what everyone out there is doing, so I tried to be as open ended and as inclusive as possible.

 

[Kenpomachine]

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo
If you train everything as an "attempted", then what happens when your reaction time isn't what it should be? Do you train with these types of variables in mind? Just curious. Does anybody have any drills they work? or perhaps further concerns, questions, or answers?

We are told to say the attack as a grab or hold to our oponent when he/she doesn't know the tech.

Holds and grabs from behind, with a lapse of time to avoid knowing exactly when the attack is coming is nce.