Gore's Message To Climate Change Skeptics

[elder999]

Global Warming is like a religion, well, like a bad religion, whose followers need to convert by force and chase out heretics...

Well........lookie here

 

[MBuzzy]

Then YOU feel free to believe it.

I wont, because you still cant prove it.

No matter what standard is used, be it scientific, legal or common sense, you doom and gloomers fail every time

It is obvious that if one is unwilling to listen to evidence which contradicts their point of view, the point of view will never change.

I'm just curious what level of "proof" it is that you seek?

Also....the fact that the "doom and gloomers" fail every time makes absolutely no sense to me. Please explain, in what way has ANYONE failed?

Twin fist, I think that you fail to see the point here. The "doom and gloom" people that you are referring to are simply the manifestion of some preconceived notion about what "environmentalists" are like. I really don't see many people running around screaming that the sky is falling. More often, just people who are advocating a better, more environment conscious way of life.

And again - I will ask, as I have in EVERY POST....WHY NOT? Blame aside, how does it hurt to be more aware and conscious when it is feasable and economical? Xue has it right....pointing the finger makes absolutely no difference in this case.

Also, since it is proof that you seek so fervently, please provide some of your own. I would really like to read some of the documentation that makes up and supports your opinions. Making a claim with no supporting evidence helps neither side. I personally am very interested in reading real scientific evidence that humans have no influence on global climate change if it exists.

 

[Twin Fist]

Buzzy,
I told you this already, but you must have missed it.

In as much as "why shouldnt we try to be cleaner?" I agree with you. Right up to the point where it would cripple our economy. Up to that point i am all for being as eco-friendly as possible. Just because it is a good idea. But i will not EVER go live in a cave because some tree humping liberal tells me I am hurting "mother earth"

The SAME people who want to erase oil ALSO wont let you build nuclear plants.

wait....wut?

You cant have it both ways.

it's always the same thing, "reduce the use of fossil fuels"

with what? They even deny that ethonol is an energy NEGATIVE solution. It takes more energy to produce it than you get out of it.

then they draw a blank


And lots of people are in fact running around saying that the sky is falling. Ted Turner was on tv over the weekend and said that within 40 years, 75% of the human population would be dead and the rest would be canibals because there wouldnt be any other food.

He got that idea from someone like tellner.

Buzzy, the gloomers like Tellner fail because they claim this or that is a fact when it isnt. Not by legal standards, not by scientific standards,a dn certainly not by the standard of common sense.

they fail, ergo they are failures

one groups says one thing, another comes out and blows the first groups findings out of the water

People like tellner are the ones that are not listening to any other points of view. I will happy to do so, once there is an actual scienctific concensus

 

[Flying Crane]

and the southern has been growing.

That's not true. A simple search on yahoo will bring up all kinds of information contradicting this statement. Ice shelves in Antarctica have been collapsing. Adelaide Penguin populations have been dropping severely because they feed on critters that live only under the ice shelves. As those ice shelves have disappeared, the penguins have been forced to swim farther and farther in search of food. Their populations are collapsing because of it.

Antarctic ice has been shrinking just as Arctic ice has been.

 

[Xue Sheng]

That's not true. A simple search on yahoo will bring up all kinds of information contradicting this statement. Ice shelves in Antarctica have been collapsing. Adelaide Penguin populations have been dropping severely because they feed on critters that live only under the ice shelves. As those ice shelves have disappeared, the penguins have been forced to swim farther and farther in search of food. Their populations are collapsing because of it.

Antarctic ice has been shrinking just as Arctic ice has been.

NAH its all fine, nothing to worry about

Big difference between the North (artic) and South (Antarctica) pole is that the North Pole melts and you get clear water... a lot of fresh clear water that gives you BIG problems but still clear ocean. The South Pole melts and you get bare land. And that land due to the lack of ice pressure will rebound (push upward) and this may sound just hunky dory but there are a few volcanoes under that ice that will likely become active so......

 

[Flying Crane]

NAH its all fine, nothing to worry about

Big difference between the North (artic) and South (Antarctica) pole is that the North Pole melts and you get clear water... a lot of fresh clear water that gives you BIG problems but still clear ocean. The South Pole melts and you get bare land. And that land due to the lack of ice pressure will rebound (push upward) and this may sound just hunky dory but there are a few volcanoes under that ice that will likely become active so......

interestingly enough, there have been suggestions that the Antarctic continent could experience an increase in ice due to an increase in precipitation as a predicted effect of a warming climate.

Also, since Antarctica is a huge continent, there are some regions that have shown different effects from other regions and have given mixed information regarding whether or not the continent is heating up. I've seen one article that suggested that due to its size, Antarctica may even sort of do it's own thing, regardless of what the rest of the globe is experiencing. But none of these articles have suggested that what is being seen in Antarctica contradicts global warming.

I think that claiming Antarctica is experiencing a growth in it's ice coverage, and this contradicts global warming, is really cherry-picking information and ignoring the big picture.

 

[tellner]

The issue is the Amount of Fresh water being dumped into the oceans. This can and has in the past shut down the oceans conveyor belt system that works kind of like an air conditioning/heating system, again fresh water stops it and energy flow changes drastically. Again see Younger Dryas.

I hope to the Flying Spaghetti Monster that we don't see that. Northern Europe gets Fimbulwinter. A lot more drought. More storms. Less climate moderation.

As the Eddas say:

Then said Gangleri: "What tidings are to be told concerning the Weird of the Gods? Never before have I heard aught said of this." Hárr answered: "Great tidings are to be told of it, and much. The first is this, that there shall come that winter which is called the Fimbulwinter: in that time snow shall drive from all quarters; frosts shall be great then, and winds sharp; there shall be no virtue in the sun. Those winters shall proceed three in succession, and no summer between; but first shall come three other winters, such that over all the world there shall be mighty battles. In that time brothers shall slay each other for food, and none shall spare father or son in manslaughter and in incest; so it says in Völuspá:

{p. 78}

Brothers shall strive | and slaughter each other;
Own sisters' children | shall sin together;
Ill days among men, | many a whoredom:
An axe-age, a sword-age, | shields shall be cloven;
A wind-age, a wolf-age, | ere the world totters.

And face facts gentleman ice is melting in places it has not melted in recent history so this does point to "Global Warming".

But Global warming does not necessarily mean that the ENTIRE globe is getting warmer it means CLIMATE CHANGE. This means that place that were warm could get MUCH cooler and places that were cool could get warmer but overall there will be fewer cold areas. However this could and has in the past bring on rapid cooling and that is the stuff rapid species extinction is made of (note we are a species that should be VERY concerned about this).

That's an excellent point that very few people get, particularly journalists and those with a denying axe to grind.

Frankly I would MUCH rather figure out what is causing it to see if there is anything we can do to stop it, slow it, or survive it than sit here pointing fingers and denying anything is happening.

Exactly. We may be too late to stop it. But it doesn't mean that we should stuff our fingers in our ears, close our eyes and pretend that it will all go away. It will take a lot of work. Nothing is guaranteed if we try. We are guaranteed a lot of suffering if we give up.

Can we fix it or slow it if it is found that CO2 is the cause or a contributor? Yes.

But there if it is CO2 there will be or may already have been a point of no return where we can do little to nothing but wait for the inevitable change which could be slow OR fairly rapid.

It's looking more like it's going to be fast and severe. We've already seen inhabited land sink under the sea for good. Countries like the Maldives and Tuvalu are planning for mass evacuation. The pessimists are surprised at how fast the Arctic and Antarctic ice are disappearing - faster than taxpayer dollars at a hedge fund bailout.

The Dutch have been fighting a holding action against the Pitiless Sea for centuries. I figure they'll just dome the whole country over and say "By Damn we won't let this bother us."

At the very least we need to start figuring out how to plan water supplies and agriculture on a global scale and what to do about salinized aquifers and river deltas.

 

[tellner]

and the southern has been growing.

No Don, it's not. The oil companies' shills have been paid to say so. Rush keeps repeating it. But it's not true.

There has been some thickening in parts of a few of them. But the total area under ice has been decreasing. And the really big shelves like the West and the Ross are coming apart faster than the climatologists had thought possible. There's iceberg calving in places where the ice had been stable for thousands of years.

I'm really sorry to be the bearer of bad news. But that's just the way it is.

 

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[Xue Sheng]

interestingly enough, there have been suggestions that the Antarctic continent could experience an increase in ice due to an increase in precipitation as a predicted effect of a warming climate.

Also, since Antarctica is a huge continent, there are some regions that have shown different effects from other regions and have given mixed information regarding whether or not the continent is heating up. I've seen one article that suggested that due to its size, Antarctica may even sort of do it's own thing, regardless of what the rest of the globe is experiencing. But none of these articles have suggested that what is being seen in Antarctica contradicts global warming.

I think that claiming Antarctica is experiencing a growth in it's ice coverage, and this contradicts global warming, is really cherry-picking information and ignoring the big picture.

Actually if I remember correctly that is pretty much how glaciers work if the edge is wasting higher up they get thicker in an attempt to maintain a balance. I seem to remember reading something recently about Greenland Glaciers doing this as well.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I hope to the Flying Spaghetti Monster that we don't see that. Northern Europe gets Fimbulwinter. A lot more drought. More storms. Less climate moderation.

As the Eddas say:




That's an excellent point that very few people get, particularly journalists and those with a denying axe to grind.


Exactly. We may be too late to stop it. But it doesn't mean that we should stuff our fingers in our ears, close our eyes and pretend that it will all go away. It will take a lot of work. Nothing is guaranteed if we try. We are guaranteed a lot of suffering if we give up.


It's looking more like it's going to be fast and severe. We've already seen inhabited land sink under the sea for good. Countries like the Maldives and Tuvalu are planning for mass evacuation. The pessimists are surprised at how fast the Arctic and Antarctic ice are disappearing - faster than taxpayer dollars at a hedge fund bailout.

The Dutch have been fighting a holding action against the Pitiless Sea for centuries. I figure they'll just dome the whole country over and say "By Damn we won't let this bother us."

At the very least we need to start figuring out how to plan water supplies and agriculture on a global scale and what to do about salinized aquifers and river deltas.

Windmills.... It's all in the windmills

 

[Twin Fist]

thats it, we're doomed

 

[Ray]

Actually if I remember correctly that is pretty much how glaciers work if the edge is wasting higher up they get thicker in an attempt to maintain a balance. I seem to remember reading something recently about Greenland Glaciers doing this as well.

Sounds like they're pretty smart for ice.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Actually if I remember correctly that is pretty much how glaciers work if the edge is wasting higher up they get thicker in an attempt to maintain a balance. I seem to remember reading something recently about Greenland Glaciers doing this as well.

** goes off to check and see if there is something to that in baldness and fatness in martial arts **

 

[newGuy12]

** goes off to check and see if there is something to that in baldness and fatness in martial arts **

Hahaha! That is the chi-belly, but it is only realized by those who practice the Tai-Chi-Chuan and some American Kenpo guys, hahahaha!!!

No, but you must consider -- why would all of these scientist LIE about all of these things? How could they benefit themselves by lying? This is not reasonable. They have to reason to come up with some story about humans wasting the planet, no motivation for this.

I say that we should try very hard to reduce our impact JUST IN CASE it is the cause of this, because the danger is too great to take that chance!

Yes, if these things happen, we are flat out freaking screwed, bit time! In the worst case scenario, there could be food shortages that would impact the whole world.

And, yes EVERYBODY, all of the countries, should address this, soon, as in now! That is how I see it! Who wishes to take a chance??? The stakes are too high!