Good self defense for a jailor?

[texasmr2]

Hey everyone it's been awhile. I am seeking a position as a jailor at a local law enforcement agency and would like to get some advice from other's in this field as far as what sort of training would be most suitable for controlling inmate's?

I hope everyone is having a happy, safe and prosperous new year and thank you in advance for any advice.

Gregg

 

[sgtmac_46]

Hey everyone it's been awhile. I am seeking a position as a jailor at a local law enforcement agency and would like to get some advice from other's in this field as far as what sort of training would be most suitable for controlling inmate's?

I hope everyone is having a happy, safe and prosperous new year and thank you in advance for any advice.

Gregg

While there are some programs designed specifically for for jailors and corrections officers, for the most part Jailor defensive tactics fall along the same lines as for law enforcement......with specific environmental differences.

The first thing to keep in mind is that, unlike someone on the street, you have the authority and responsibility to control another human, i.e. prisoners....which means that whatever force is necessary (including lethal force) to prevent them from escaping confinement can and on occassion must be employed to protect the public.

For the most part, when shopping for good training, look for a system that demonstrates good control techniques on the low end, such as arm locks, joint manipulation, pressure points,etc.......and also shows striking techniques to work on the higher end of the spectrum, i.e. knee strikes, kicks, palm heel strikes, etc.

In addition, any grappling art, such as Judo and BJJ, come in very handy in that type of environment.

Depending on the particular jail, most I am familiar with these days supply and train jail officers in baton, Pepper spray, and Taser.....and most carry those on duty. You'll probably also be issued a firearm, which you, of course, won't carry IN the jail for safety reasons......but will carry when conducting prisoner transports to and from other facilities and to and from court.

Also, keep in mind that improvised edged weapons are common in a corrections environment, so any art or system that has a realistic response to edged and impact weapons, such as the FMA's is a good choice.

You'll likely receive some good introductory instruction on the Taser, Baton, OC spray, probably PPCT and/or some other systems through the department......but you'll find, while they will teach some very good techniques.....the training will be cursory, and will require some committment on your part in order to expand your skills......in other words, while they will provide you with training, it's up to you to get the training necessary to be confident.

 

[MJS]

Hey everyone it's been awhile. I am seeking a position as a jailor at a local law enforcement agency and would like to get some advice from other's in this field as far as what sort of training would be most suitable for controlling inmate's?

I hope everyone is having a happy, safe and prosperous new year and thank you in advance for any advice.

Gregg

I concur with Sgt. Mac. Grappling arts, ie: BJJ, Judo, etc. as well as the Filipino arts such as Arnis, Kali, etc. will give you a very well rounded toolbox. You'll learn some empty hand/weapon techinques during training, but anything you can do to expand your knowledge will be a big plus.

Mike

 

[still learning]

Hello, Just wanted to add....along with the above info...any type of strenght training...muscle building...edurance...and lots of patience training or Chi-Kung....for your own self or peace of mind or mind control.

Jailers deal the the worst kind of people in the world....and they will find your weakest and use it against you!

Do NOT let there "spoken words" get to you too! ....stick and stone will break bones..but WORDS can never hurt you? ...unless you let it!

Aloha, (besides martial art skills....strenghten your mind too!)

 

[arnisador]

Grappling arts, ie: BJJ, Judo, etc. as well as the Filipino arts such as Arnis, Kali, etc. will give you a very well rounded toolbox.

I also agree: Judo or BJJ or Sambo or the like for controlling the unruly and defending if grabbed/tackled, and a FMA for fluidity and responses to surprise weapon attacks (not that the odds are ever in your favor there).

 

[MA-Caver]

I've always thought that joint locking techniques are a good tool for any LEO to have they would work well in correctional facilities. However; you can only lock down one person at a time. Usually you're moving one person from one area of the jail to another (or to court or where-ever) so any unruliness can be dealt with utilizing a variety of take downs and holding techniques til the prisoner can be restrained (cuffed) or at least calms down and realizes that you're still in charge and knows his place in the world.
JJ, BJJ, Hapkido, Judo Aikido I think are effective MA for this line of work. Wing Chun, Kenpo, Arnis have effective techniques for when you need to strike to disable. They're also good for multiple attackers (among other arts), when you have two or three prisoners trying to bum rush a guard.

I disagree with the idea that you may have to kill an inmate, even one armed with a shiv. The batons, tasers, etc. are supposed to be used to remove those threats and still keep the prisoner under lock and key.

But I agree, your mental stability and strength are your greatest weapons. Honing your awareness especially in a dangerous environment like Prison or (county jails). Maintaining a good attitude with the prisoners helps take the edge of resentment against those who carry a badge. Not saying be friendly but courteous and respecting that they're still human beings. Those in county are usually not violent offenders; speeding tickets, failure to pay fines, misdemeanors, DUI's, and minor offenses like that. Maybe they got a resisting arrest on their docket but with DUI's well they're bound to tussle because they're drunk and not thinking clearly. Others well, if they got a resisting on their docket sometimes fear causes them to tense up and resist without intending to.
Either way... Awareness, mental keen-ness and the aforementioned arts (by me and others) should do you well.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I've always thought that joint locking techniques are a good tool for any LEO to have they would work well in correctional facilities. However; you can only lock down one person at a time. Usually you're moving one person from one area of the jail to another (or to court or where-ever) so any unruliness can be dealt with utilizing a variety of take downs and holding techniques til the prisoner can be restrained (cuffed) or at least calms down and realizes that you're still in charge and knows his place in the world.
JJ, BJJ, Hapkido, Judo Aikido I think are effective MA for this line of work. Wing Chun, Kenpo, Arnis have effective techniques for when you need to strike to disable. They're also good for multiple attackers (among other arts), when you have two or three prisoners trying to bum rush a guard.

I disagree with the idea that you may have to kill an inmate, even one armed with a shiv. The batons, tasers, etc. are supposed to be used to remove those threats and still keep the prisoner under lock and key.

But I agree, your mental stability and strength are your greatest weapons. Honing your awareness especially in a dangerous environment like Prison or (county jails). Maintaining a good attitude with the prisoners helps take the edge of resentment against those who carry a badge. Not saying be friendly but courteous and respecting that they're still human beings. Those in county are usually not violent offenders; speeding tickets, failure to pay fines, misdemeanors, DUI's, and minor offenses like that. Maybe they got a resisting arrest on their docket but with DUI's well they're bound to tussle because they're drunk and not thinking clearly. Others well, if they got a resisting on their docket sometimes fear causes them to tense up and resist without intending to.
Either way... Awareness, mental keen-ness and the aforementioned arts (by me and others) should do you well.

For the record, what I meant about having a duty to prevent escape, even by use of deadly force is this.....corrections officers and jailers are in a unique position in that they are justified, authorized and required under most state statutes to prevent the escape of detainees using any force necessary, including lethal force, to prevent the escape of their charges.

This differs even from law enforcement who, under Tennessee v. Garner can only use lethal force against an escaping arrestee only under the OBJECTIVELY REASONABLE belief that allowing such escape would create an unacceptable risk to life of the officer, other officers or the public.....i.e. an armed robbery suspect who is still armed and has shot several people attempting to flee....and lethal force is the only reasonable means of preventing such flight.

Use of force to Prevent Escape from Custody. The use of force to prevent the escape of an arrested person from
custody is justifiable when the force could justifiably have been employed to effect the arrest under which the person is
in custody, except that a guard or other person authorized to act as a peace officer is justified in using any force,
including deadly force, that he believes to be immediately necessary to prevent the escape of a person from a jail,
prison, or other institution for the detention of persons charged with or convicted of a crime. http://ecdlaw.info/outlines/Brave - Sample Policy - Use of Force - General.pdf

Not that the likelihood is high, but it does bear noting......because anyone considering a career in corrections should ask themselves beforehand if they are capable of doing what society requires should the moment ever come.

 

[kailat]

Please allow me to add a few of my concerns, and disconcerns and likes/dislikes and what I feel would be necessary for a CO. Ive have been a CO and am current LEO and DT 's instructor.

PROs to PPCT

1. teach a well rounded basic of defensive tactics as far as Grappling from mostly stand up and ground from BJJ and other traditional arts.
2. PPCT gives a good *BASIC* instruction in pressure points or at least the ones you will be allowed to use for the job / task given.
3. PPCT also will give you an outlined or should anyway basic anatomy of areas allowed to strike as the force continum allows. ( not as instructed by many martial arts groups)
4. PPCT teaches a very basic and detailed course of weapon retention if allowed to carry the appropriate tools for the job.
5. PPCT allows a small area to add in and supplement any outside training you recieve or may already have...

CONS to PPCT
1. alot of the instructors in PPCT are not or have had minimal if any martial arts training. So they only undergo the basic minimum requirements to become a cert PPCT instructor. (why because it's a reputeable extra side job within Law Enforcement
2. The bare minimum in joint locks and pressure points are taught. The only problem i have personally witnessed is not structured to give a good understanding on joint locks "PROPERLY" what i recommend is a crash course or at least a reputable KYUSHO Jutsu or small circle Jujutsu teacher. He can make your pressure points and joint locks taught be PPCT that much more successful.
3. Alot of the simple takedowns and armbars are very weak in how i was taught by my PPCT inst's. But again Small Circle JJ teachers as well as someone with a good and I mean "GOOD" i over emphasise understanding of Jointlocks, and takedowns.. Will enhance your PPCT training to the core.

right now thats the best instruction or help I can offer

 

[sgtmac_46]

Please allow me to add a few of my concerns, and disconcerns and likes/dislikes and what I feel would be necessary for a CO. Ive have been a CO and am current LEO and DT 's instructor.

PROs to PPCT

1. teach a well rounded basic of defensive tactics as far as Grappling from mostly stand up and ground from BJJ and other traditional arts.
2. PPCT gives a good *BASIC* instruction in pressure points or at least the ones you will be allowed to use for the job / task given.
3. PPCT also will give you an outlined or should anyway basic anatomy of areas allowed to strike as the force continum allows. ( not as instructed by many martial arts groups)
4. PPCT teaches a very basic and detailed course of weapon retention if allowed to carry the appropriate tools for the job.
5. PPCT allows a small area to add in and supplement any outside training you recieve or may already have...

CONS to PPCT
1. alot of the instructors in PPCT are not or have had minimal if any martial arts training. So they only undergo the basic minimum requirements to become a cert PPCT instructor. (why because it's a reputeable extra side job within Law Enforcement
2. The bare minimum in joint locks and pressure points are taught. The only problem i have personally witnessed is not structured to give a good understanding on joint locks "PROPERLY" what i recommend is a crash course or at least a reputable KYUSHO Jutsu or small circle Jujutsu teacher. He can make your pressure points and joint locks taught be PPCT that much more successful.
3. Alot of the simple takedowns and armbars are very weak in how i was taught by my PPCT inst's. But again Small Circle JJ teachers as well as someone with a good and I mean "GOOD" i over emphasise understanding of Jointlocks, and takedowns.. Will enhance your PPCT training to the core.

right now thats the best instruction or help I can offer

I absolutely agree with every word.....PPCT isn't 'bad' but it is the bare bones minimum familarization designed for someone with ABSOLUTELY NO training....and as such, it serves it's purpose.....as stop-gap starting point.

My academy class was one of the few these days that did not incorperate any PPCT material (i've since taken several PPCT classes just because they were free). My academy defensive tactics instructor, John Karriman, also ran a school where he taught Daito Ryu Aikijujutsua at the Butokuden West Aikikai in Joplin, Missouri, and we were given a very thorough understanding of the principles of joint locks and pressure points and their dynamic applications in a far more thorough manner than any PPCT instruction i've ever received even approached.

Karriman-sensei was also generous enough to offer a very large discount for academy class members to attend his regular classes at his dojo.....an offer that I seem to be the only one in our class willing to accept. So I trained at his dojo for the 3 months of my academy classes there, and though that's not nearly enough time, it was long enough to impress me with how much more I wanted to learn........it's been 11 years since my academy and classes at Karriman-sensei's Dojo, and i've had a lot of different training and instruction in a lot of different arts and tactics since then.......but I still uses much of what I was taught by Karriman-sensei on the street.

 

[kailat]

I absolutely agree with every word.....PPCT isn't 'bad' but it is the bare bones minimum familarization designed for someone with ABSOLUTELY NO training....and as such, it serves it's purpose.....as stop-gap starting point.

My academy class was one of the few these days that did not incorperate any PPCT material (i've since taken several PPCT classes just because they were free). My academy defensive tactics instructor, John Karriman, also ran a school where he taught Daito Ryu Aikijujutsua at the Butokuden West Aikikai in Joplin, Missouri, and we were given a very thorough understanding of the principles of joint locks and pressure points and their dynamic applications in a far more thorough manner than any PPCT instruction i've ever received even approached.

Karriman-sensei was also generous enough to offer a very large discount for academy class members to attend his regular classes at his dojo.....an offer that I seem to be the only one in our class willing to accept. So I trained at his dojo for the 3 months of my academy classes there, and though that's not nearly enough time, it was long enough to impress me with how much more I wanted to learn........it's been 11 years since my academy and classes at Karriman-sensei's Dojo, and i've had a lot of different training and instruction in a lot of different arts and tactics since then.......but I still uses much of what I was taught by Karriman-sensei on the street.

Thanks for feeling and understanding my concerns.. It's not everyday you speak w/ someone in the same playing field as we are that actually understand THAT!!!

I although not a large fan of traditional arts, as i've seen many teach who have "not a clue as to what they are teaching" not to say others done, just from my perspective out there. I again had the fortunate time to work a little bit w/ many of Wally Jay's disciples and his son, as well as himself. Small Circle JJ is just awesome in the breakdown of joint and body manipulation. the other point I was making on RyuKyu Kempo and or Kyusho and I may catch some hell here by Dillman haters, but given the situation and training the man knows his PP. And if you are a serious student and work in LE it would behoove anyone to seek training under any of thier students to understand proper principles of joint locks and pp. Thats just my own biased opinion.

Some other systems to note and fine choice as you spoke of is the Aikijj as well. One of my favorite is Mande Muda Silat or any competent / or professional Silat instructor for that matter. WHY? Mainly because of the inclose training they undergo. For weapons based and empty hand defense Im always for FMA!! ; )

hope we can all be of help..

salamat maraming po

 

[sgtmac_46]

Thanks for feeling and understanding my concerns.. It's not everyday you speak w/ someone in the same playing field as we are that actually understand THAT!!!

I although not a large fan of traditional arts, as i've seen many teach who have "not a clue as to what they are teaching" not to say others done, just from my perspective out there. I again had the fortunate time to work a little bit w/ many of Wally Jay's disciples and his son, as well as himself. Small Circle JJ is just awesome in the breakdown of joint and body manipulation. the other point I was making on RyuKyu Kempo and or Kyusho and I may catch some hell here by Dillman haters, but given the situation and training the man knows his PP. And if you are a serious student and work in LE it would behoove anyone to seek training under any of thier students to understand proper principles of joint locks and pp. Thats just my own biased opinion.

Some other systems to note and fine choice as you spoke of is the Aikijj as well. One of my favorite is Mande Muda Silat or any competent / or professional Silat instructor for that matter. WHY? Mainly because of the inclose training they undergo. For weapons based and empty hand defense Im always for FMA!! ; )

hope we can all be of help..

salamat maraming po

Absolutely, i've found the FMA's to be very beneficial to street work. In addition my several years training in Judo and BJJ have come in very handy. The trick with translating Judo to the street is to practice often without a Gi.....

 

[jks9199]

Just about any academy's DT training is going to be the bare minimum that officers will need on the street, designed around the principal of starting with ZERO knowledge or ability and pushing to an effective level in a very short time.

I strongly encourage you to supplement the academy training with continuing training afterwards. Try to find a school that recognizes reality, not sport, and will work with you to adapt to new situations as you discover them. I'm personally always happy to work with someone based on something they encountered in reality, whether they're in LE or not. After all, that's what I train for, and my training is always improved by incorporating real world lessons and experiences -- and figuring out a better way to handle them the next time.a

But, the truth is that, in the real deal, you'll almost certainly find that you rely primarily on a few basic techniques that you've drilled into yourself with extensive repitition. On-going martial arts training will expand your options, and keep more techniques closer to the front of your body/mind.

Notice that I haven't specified a style... There are many good styles. Judo, krav maga, sambo, BJJ, wrestling, boxing, and many more. It's the approach to training that will make the difference. I will note that, in my own experience, you need something that will provide some grappling skills, as well as striking, and ideally can smoothly incorporate the baton and transitions within the force continuum. That's one thing that I've noted the Filipino martial arts do quite well... but they aren't the only ones!

Based on my own personal observations, and comments from others who train in BJJ, I've noticed that many BJJ folks have trouble shifting between the rule sets of competition and real-world use in law enforcement. I think that's as much a result of extensive practice under competition rules, without nearly as much practice of real-world application. Interestingly enough -- I had a similar problem transitioning from sparring/controlled contact to actually striking... and I've heard of others who did as well. So it's NOT really art-specific. The other thing I don't personally like about BJJ (especially, though not exclusively) is that it really ties you up with one-on-one, which, ESPECIALLY in the jail environment is not a good idea.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Just about any academy's DT training is going to be the bare minimum that officers will need on the street, designed around the principal of starting with ZERO knowledge or ability and pushing to an effective level in a very short time.

I strongly encourage you to supplement the academy training with continuing training afterwards. Try to find a school that recognizes reality, not sport, and will work with you to adapt to new situations as you discover them. I'm personally always happy to work with someone based on something they encountered in reality, whether they're in LE or not. After all, that's what I train for, and my training is always improved by incorporating real world lessons and experiences -- and figuring out a better way to handle them the next time.a

But, the truth is that, in the real deal, you'll almost certainly find that you rely primarily on a few basic techniques that you've drilled into yourself with extensive repitition. On-going martial arts training will expand your options, and keep more techniques closer to the front of your body/mind.

Notice that I haven't specified a style... There are many good styles. Judo, krav maga, sambo, BJJ, wrestling, boxing, and many more. It's the approach to training that will make the difference. I will note that, in my own experience, you need something that will provide some grappling skills, as well as striking, and ideally can smoothly incorporate the baton and transitions within the force continuum. That's one thing that I've noted the Filipino martial arts do quite well... but they aren't the only ones!

Based on my own personal observations, and comments from others who train in BJJ, I've noticed that many BJJ folks have trouble shifting between the rule sets of competition and real-world use in law enforcement. I think that's as much a result of extensive practice under competition rules, without nearly as much practice of real-world application. Interestingly enough -- I had a similar problem transitioning from sparring/controlled contact to actually striking... and I've heard of others who did as well. So it's NOT really art-specific. The other thing I don't personally like about BJJ (especially, though not exclusively) is that it really ties you up with one-on-one, which, ESPECIALLY in the jail environment is not a good idea.

Nice post! Find a good Training Hall that does not focus on sporting martial systems and you will do fine.

 

[jks9199]

Thanks...

I've got one more comment...

Continuing training DOES NOT have to be formal martial arts training. It could be working regularly with some of your colleagues, practicing the techniques you learned in the academy, and applying them to some of the situations you've actually encountered. It could also include taking (and possibly even earning certification in) the various DT programs out there, even becoming a DT instructor.

But, however you choose to do it, you need to get out there, keep in shape (cardio & strength & flexibility all matter), and keep practicing!

 

[Kingindian]

jailor?...i dont now what occupation is that. I think its about guarding the jail
you can get some self defense videos at my blog (of course not in full version, but still ok)

and dont forget to equip yourself with things like taser, pepper spray, etc

 

[kingkong89]

hello i am also involved with a local law enforcement agency. i found that the best type of training is ju jitsu, mainly the joint locks and submissions. hope i could help

 

[chinto]

as a corrections officer i would say that judo and jujitsu are good, but I would also look into a good Okinawan karate system or similar as you need to be able to stay on your feet too. going to the ground and submitting some one when its just you and him is an OK option, or when its just him and say a couple officers and you restraining him. BUT if you are in a cell with more then one prisoner or in the yard with several prisoners, going to the ground is a great way to get crippled or killed even! the other prisoners may decide to kick your head and ribs and balls in while you are down there with this other prisoner trying to submit him!! keep that in mind and the fact that some prisoners may be looking to do more then just get past you but may in fact be looking primarily with some other prisoner to injure or even kill you... so a good system that is predicated on survival against more then one attacker like karate or some of the more stand up styles ( this includes some of the older traditional jujitsus too) is a very good idea. ( also remember that Okinawan Karate systems have a huge amount of grappling in them when taught properly. Most of that grappling is towards locks and sweeps and brakes and throws and putting him on the ground in such a way as you can finish him if he is still able to resist at that point.)