Good day at the gym...finished up on the bag!

[Xue Sheng]

For starters, there are many weapons besides the fist.

Secondly, if you choose to use your fists, it is still a bad idea to aim for hard targets, because the hand is a fragile sack of tiny weak bones.

Hitting trees or walls may condition your skin, nerves, and even thicken up the knuckles from microfractures, but it also causes cumulative damage, with an ever present risk of permanent damage.

Good luck playing the piano when you are 50. I recently saw a documentary about some old-school karate Masters in Okinawa, clubs for hands but not good for much else. Hands mostly fused together from all the fractures.

Hitting bare knuckle with maximum effectiveness without injury is more a matter of form and technique than surface or impact conditioning, which comes at a greater cost/benifit ratio by hitting softer targets like heavy bags (with or without hand protection) than from bashing your hand on unyielding surfaces.

Had no problem playing anything when I was 50.....I'm almost 60 and my hands are fine, don't play piano, but ukulele, mandolin and even guitar I can play without issue, and I have been training this way since I was in Junior high school. It is not just pounding away with your fists, it is knowing how to hit with your fists.

Strangely enough, I have arthritis in my knees and hips, but my hands are just fine...

 

[jobo]

So...your not in the gym, the guan, the kwoon, the dojo, and you end up in a fight outside of that environment....do you ask the other guy to wait so you can wrap your hands, or just hit him and break your hand because you never conditioned it to hit without wraps and/or gloves..... just wondering

if you hit them hard enough to damage your hand they wont be I a position to come back at you and even if they do manage to stager on a bit you've still got another hand. iv3 hit a lot of people in my life and never ever broke my hand, so either I'm not punching hard enough, but they generally fall over if I hit them clean or it's a lot harder to damage your hand than your making out.

but I've know a good few people who have broke their hand puncsing walls/ refrigerators or other solid objects in a temper, it always seem a particularly stupid thing to d. I used to throw spinners at the garage door in temper in I broke something on the motorbike, just as childish but a lot safer for me

 

[skyeisonfire]

So, everyone is right to a point. Using the amount of force neccessary to get the job done is all I'm saying. That's why we condition ourselves. If you want to do sport, then wrap your hands. If you intend to train for the unfortunate day you have to use your fist, then don't choose to condition and 50/50 chance you'll break them anyways. When I'm training on my little bag, I can go all out. My body has been conditioned to go against that. When I train on my target dummy, the pads are really hard and backed up by heavy 2×4 and board loaded with spring resistance. I can only use 1/3 to 1/2 power or I would really hurt myself. I trained on wall bags for a few years as well. I understand what my hands can take and not take by now. Going at it with full force without understanding your body relative to what you are striking at is a no-no and shouldn't be done. There's a way that I throw my punches, I snap them, but fully control the final contraction on impact. There's no blunt force like a battering ram. It all depends on what you are training for. I'm not trying to get in the ring for the knockout. My philosophy is more avoidance and my training is for last resort and escape if possible. If that fails, then maybe I have to bust a knuckle. Either way, in that situation, you'll have to make a choice pretty quickly. I'd rather be conditioned. But hey, I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. Do it the way you like. I already know my path.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The hand is essentially a bag of marbles. Very breakable ones. If your hand isn't wrapped, hitting hard targets with a fist is a pretty bad idea.

The problem isn't hitting hard objects. The problem is hitting harder than what the fist is conditioned for or hitting with the wrong part of the fist. I can hammer fist skulls all day long and my hand isn't going to break.

If you are correctly targeting areas of the head and face then you shouldn't run into too much risk of breaking a hand. if you are just punching hoping to hit somewhere on the face, then you're asking for a broken hand.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The hand is essentially a bag of marbles. Very breakable ones. If your hand isn't wrapped, hitting hard targets with a fist is a pretty bad idea.

I'm truly puzzled when people make comments like you did about wrapping hands. I understand the need when you are wearing big gloves that prevent proper fist structure. But punching without gloves forces the person to have better structured punches. I've seen more people mess up their wrist than break their hands. If I had to guess, that's probably the same reasons people break their hands. Bad fist structure and hitting harder than what the fist is conditioned for.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Pending what the bag is stuffed with i dont think you can or should go 100% effort on a heavy bag without gloves on. At least you will only mess up once if you dont wear gloves as it will immediately hurt which will encourage you not to do it again.

(in other words, so long as you think about what you are doing, it mitigates some issues)


I made that mistake once, never again, pahahah. (i didnt break anything nor go full power though, but i read something later on and went "yeah id rather not risk it". I did it like your meant to punch those wall bags or padded walls)

You can hurt yourself at 30% power on a heavy bag if you have bad punching technique and structure. Eventually you'll learn to punch correctly. Many times people just want to punch hard and skip the part where you learn how to do that without hurting themselves

 

[JowGaWolf]

For starters, there are many weapons besides the fist.

Secondly, if you choose to use your fists, it is still a bad idea to aim for hard targets, because the hand is a fragile sack of tiny weak bones.

Hitting trees or walls may condition your skin, nerves, and even thicken up the knuckles from microfractures, but it also causes cumulative damage, with an ever present risk of permanent damage.

Good luck playing the piano when you are 50. I recently saw a documentary about some old-school karate Masters in Okinawa, clubs for hands but not good for much else. Hands mostly fused together from all the fractures.

Hitting bare knuckle with maximum effectiveness without injury is more a matter of form and technique than surface or impact conditioning, which comes at a greater cost/benifit ratio by hitting softer targets like heavy bags (with or without hand protection) than from bashing your hand on unyielding surfaces.

This post makes senses to me. Hit targets that give vs hitting targets that don't. I punch walls but only to train fist structure so punches aren't thrown hard. Impact is also less than what is given on a bag. This allows me better target a specific knuckle. I punch elevator buttons with my knuckles and not push with my fingers. I push open doors with my knuckles as well.

I don't do much hard conditioning where I'm baking my knuckles with alot of force, unless it's against something that gives.

 

[JowGaWolf]

So, everyone is right to a point. Using the amount of force neccessary to get the job done is all I'm saying. That's why we condition ourselves. If you want to do sport, then wrap your hands. If you intend to train for the unfortunate day you have to use your fist, then don't choose to condition and 50/50 chance you'll break them anyways. When I'm training on my little bag, I can go all out. My body has been conditioned to go against that. When I train on my target dummy, the pads are really hard and backed up by heavy 2×4 and board loaded with spring resistance. I can only use 1/3 to 1/2 power or I would really hurt myself. I trained on wall bags for a few years as well. I understand what my hands can take and not take by now. Going at it with full force without understanding your body relative to what you are striking at is a no-no and shouldn't be done. There's a way that I throw my punches, I snap them, but fully control the final contraction on impact. There's no blunt force like a battering ram. It all depends on what you are training for. I'm not trying to get in the ring for the knockout. My philosophy is more avoidance and my training is for last resort and escape if possible. If that fails, then maybe I have to bust a knuckle. Either way, in that situation, you'll have to make a choice pretty quickly. I'd rather be conditioned. But hey, I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. Do it the way you like. I already know my path.

I think people assume that they always punch their hardest in a fight. If I can hit the jaw where it hinges, then I'll try to punch the jaw until it touches the other side. If I see that elbow, chins, and foreheads get in the way then I'll dial the power back a little. I have a good idea of how much power to punch worth only because I've hit hard targets before (that give).

 

[Martial D]

The problem isn't hitting hard objects. The problem is hitting harder than what the fist is conditioned for or hitting with the wrong part of the fist. I can hammer fist skulls all day long and my hand isn't going to break.

If you are correctly targeting areas of the head and face then you shouldn't run into too much risk of breaking a hand. if you are just punching hoping to hit somewhere on the face, then you're asking for a broken hand.

Sure if your opponent will be a sport and hold still for you, this shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Martial D]

I'm truly puzzled when people make comments like you did about wrapping hands. I understand the need when you are wearing big gloves that prevent proper fist structure. But punching without gloves forces the person to have better structured punches. I've seen more people mess up their wrist than break their hands. If I had to guess, that's probably the same reasons people break their hands. Bad fist structure and hitting harder than what the fist is conditioned for.

There is a reason a metacarpal fracture is colloquially known as a boxers fracture.

And it isn't because they are punching wrong.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Sure if your opponent will be a sport and hold still for you, this shouldn't be a problem

It's no problem when they move. I'm fairly consistent with punching accuracy. I do a lot of sets-ups vs just trying to hit something. This may look like wide swings but they are very targeted. If you watch it full screen then you'll see my eyes.

Here's me helping a student on sparring day with the application of one of our basic punches. There is a slim chance of breaking the hand with this technique.

I throw jabs too, but I'm picky with jabs as well. I just don't unleash them and try to overwhelm my opponent with Jabs to the face. I'll only throw it if I think see an opening or if I know there is an opening. Here's another person I'm training. He throws similar punches and closes the gap. He see's that I'm guard my head so he targets the gut. There's no need to try to punch through my guard in hopes that he might hit the soft part of my face.

 

[Martial D]

It's no problem when they move. I'm fairly consistent with punching accuracy. I do a lot of sets-ups vs just trying to hit something. This may look like wide swings but they are very targeted. If you watch it full screen then you'll see my eyes.

Here's me helping a student on sparring day with the application of one of our basic punches. There is a slim chance of breaking the hand with this technique.

I throw jabs too, but I'm picky with jabs as well. I just don't unleash them and try to overwhelm my opponent with Jabs to the face. I'll only throw it if I think see an opening or if I know there is an opening. Here's another person I'm training. He throws similar punches and closes the gap. He see's that I'm guard my head so he targets the gut. There's no need to try to punch through my guard in hopes that he might hit the soft part of my face.

Uhh. I said moves lol. Against a guy that can move his head your punches aren't all going to land at all, much less exactly where you want them to.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Uhh. I said moves lol. Against a guy that can move his head your punches aren't all going to land at all, much less exactly where you want them to.

If a guy likes to Bob and weave then I'll attack else were. If the head is moving that much then it's pretty much hoping I can hit the head. If it gets to that point then you just need go for a less mobile target. Legs or body.

 

[Headhunter]

At the end of it all the hand wrapping it's all preference. You can condition your hands all day and still break or damage them in a fight. I mean I've seen boxers wearing 16 ounce gloves and hand wraps break their hands in fight. It happens so of course you can break it for real no matter how many walls you punch. It's all about preference.

Personally I don't care. In Muay Thai class I'll wrap my hands and put on gloves because that's what's done in thr class. In karate or Krav Maga I'll hit with bare fists because it's what's done. I can totally understand people not wanting to hit bare fist I've had numerous cuts on my knuckles and that seriously screws your training when you can't punch a bag properly because your hand will start bleeding everywhere if you do

 

[JowGaWolf]

I've had numerous cuts on my knuckles and that seriously screws your training when you can't punch a bag properly because your hand will start bleeding everywhere if you do

This was how my first experience was. Then I learned that I was punching incorrectly. My fists weren't going directly into the bag. I was swiping my fists across the bag. Once I corrected this, no more cut knuckles and I've developed a mean punch

 

[dvcochran]

Yeah, gloves are too restricting. One important thing is if you were trained in WC, lop sau and other drills, your hands need the ability to grasps the opponent's arms briefly enough to transition to another position. It's just weird for me to strike with gloves.

Looked like a good workout.
It is a very different feel when you first put on a set of regulation boxing gloves. If you want to get a hard arm workout put on a 16 ounce pair of gloves and punch the bag for an hour.
In Kali we used to hold 1-3-5 pound iron balls at shoulder level, drop them and then catch them in the air at about knee level. The goal was to catch them as hard as you could to toughen up your hands and strengthen your grip. I cannot over-exaggerate how well this works.