Go Belts and Other Gi Items

[jobo]

No, but you need to be healthy to make black belt.

If I were to have all of the knowledge of everything needed to pass the black belt test suddenly downloaded into my head right now, I could not physically complete the test at my current state of physical fitness.

Completing the gold belt test was a task for me. This is letting me know that I need to supplement my martial arts training by hitting the gym.

well no you really don't, black belt level at some clubs requires you to be an elite athlete, with elite athlete levels of fitness.

clubs thats that hand belts out three times a year, require no more than base level fitness to reach black belt, any other requrement would cut off there money supply, as they would run out of punters very quickly.

will you get fitter doing karate( at most clubs), yes if the level of fitness you started with is abisminaly low. which to be fair sounds like you

no, if you started of with average to good fitness in the first place, you may even regress as it not challenging enough

 

[pdg]

Oh, and...

Completing the gold belt test was a task for me

Doing a quick calculation, you've been training for 6 weeks?

You wouldn't be eligible to test for your first belt in our club yet - but a lot of people bemoan tkd for allowing progression too quickly.

Did your regular class not give you the same sort of challenges and also indicate that you should look to get fitter?

 

[drop bear]

A lot of people do grade for belts and wear uniforms though. So they probably are important.

 

[pdg]

will you get fitter doing karate( at most clubs), yes if the level of fitness you started with is abisminaly low. which to be fair sounds like you

no, if you started of with average to good fitness in the first place

That's true to some extent.

But it depends how you look at it.

With the level of fitness I had when I started tkd I could easily have coasted through all of it and got to the same grade I'm at now with no actual improvement in my physical condition.

So the fact I do it hasn't by itself magically made me fitter.

But I never went into it thinking "doing this will make me fitter" - I went into it thinking more like "I'm going to use this to make me fitter by pushing myself".


In the same way, going to the gym won't make you stronger just by being there and lifting easy for 5 minutes - pushing yourself is what makes the difference.

 

[Rusty B]

What art is it you're talking about with chequered and red after black?

If shorin-ryu, there is usually more than one level of black, so you'd test and not necessarily get a new belt...

But there's still six dan ranks within black, so there are still milestones to look forward to hitting.

 

[pdg]

But there's still six dan ranks within black, so there are still milestones to look forward to hitting.

And there are stripes on bjj coloured belts before black - what makes those less of a milestone than a different colour?

 

[Rusty B]

People make a lifestyle change by going to the gym, I've never seen anyone with a black belt in stairmaster. Or they take up cycling or running - you'll be there forever waiting for your pedalling black belt.

Black belt in not eating too much chocolate?

You've said bjj wouldn't suit because it takes too long to get a black belt - what about fat loss and strength/fitness gains? Do they only occur in direct proportion to the colour of a strip of cloth tied around your waist?

You're really being quite contradictory.


Now I'm perfectly happy to say that my progression through the tkd belts means something to me, I have attached a personal importance to it.

If it took longer per belt, then so what? It'd still have the same meaning to me.

And whether it's done fast or slow has no bearing on what anyone else thinks of me.

I'm perfectly capable of walking and chewing bubble gum at the same time. If I'm not physically fit enough to do anything else, I can at least do that.

Taking 12 to 15 years to make black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu isn't the issue. It's the fact that they are only for grades before that. I need some shorter interval milestones to look forward to hitting if I'm going to stay motivated. Being a blue belt for five years wouldn't fulfill that.

To take your stairmaster example, sure, one may not be earning belts, but they will see the milestones that they are hitting when they look at the scale.

 

[Rusty B]

And there are stripes on bjj coloured belts before black - what makes those less of a milestone than a different colour?

As was pointed out earlier, that depends on where you're taking BJJ. Not all of them have that.

 

[drop bear]

And there are stripes on bjj coloured belts before black - what makes those less of a milestone than a different colour?

And when you compete you can get medals which are cool as well.

 

[pdg]

I'm perfectly capable of walking and chewing bubble gum at the same time. If I'm not physically fit enough to do anything else, I can at least do that.

Taking 12 to 15 years to make black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu isn't the issue. It's the fact that they are only for grades before that. I need some shorter interval milestones to look forward to hitting if I'm going to stay motivated. Being a blue belt for five years wouldn't fulfill that.

To take your stairmaster example, sure, one may not be earning belts, but they will see the milestones that they are hitting when they look at the scale.

But you'll get the same personal milestones while wearing a blue belt as you do with a stairmaster...

Well, you will if you put the effort in.

I sort of understand working through grades being a motivation - there are times with my 7 year old daughter that we have to chivvy her along a bit with "if you don't put the effort in you won't be able to get your next belt".

But you said you're 40 - that's almost as old as me (I started when I was 38) - do you really need the constant external validation?

 

[pdg]

And when you compete you can get medals which are cool as well.

I bet I couldn't, what with my huge extensive zero bjj experience...

Well, unless I get one for turning up - which is kind of the same as some belts

 

[Rusty B]

When I was eyeballing hapkido about a year ago, the dojang I was inquiring at only had two or three adult classes per week.

In THAT case, I can see it not being possible in six weeks.

There are seven adult classes per week where I train.

To answer your last question... the difference is about the same as that between morning PT in the military and taking the PT test.

That is... until today, so far. My first class as a gold belt, and having to do kicks from the straddle leg stance. I've got much work to do.

 

[jobo]

That's true to some extent.

But it depends how you look at it.

With the level of fitness I had when I started tkd I could easily have coasted through all of it and got to the same grade I'm at now with no actual improvement in my physical condition.

So the fact I do it hasn't by itself magically made me fitter.

But I never went into it thinking "doing this will make me fitter" - I went into it thinking more like "I'm going to use this to make me fitter by pushing myself".


In the same way, going to the gym won't make you stronger just by being there and lifting easy for 5 minutes - pushing yourself is what makes the difference.

yes, but there's a limit, your still doing the same old thing over again, unless there some step up( progressive overload) in the demands your going to top out pretty quickly.

back in the olden days when i did kung fu, the training was brutal, not the fight training, that was just the usual that consisted of a lot of standing about with a bit of jumping about,the 40 minutes of circuit train we did at the beginning of class.

but no one was forcing that, lots stop as soon as it got difficult, some quite a lot before that.

so i got quite ridiculously fit whilst most walked out in the same rotund out of shape condition they walked in.

so it depends greatly on what value the instructer put on fitness as to how much of his time and your effort gets devoted to it.

art that have a competitive outlets seem to devote more to fitness than them that don't, for the simple reason that being unfitter than your opponent is a good way to lose quickly

 

[Rusty B]

Have you seen some black belts? Loads of them are very much in the category of unhealthy

If I was a betting man, my money is on the majority of them letting themselves go after the fact.

 

[pdg]

If I was a betting man, my money is on the majority of them letting themselves go after the fact.

You'd be losing that bet...

 

[Rusty B]

But you'll get the same personal milestones while wearing a blue belt as you do with a stairmaster...

Well, you will if you put the effort in.

I sort of understand working through grades being a motivation - there are times with my 7 year old daughter that we have to chivvy her along a bit with "if you don't put the effort in you won't be able to get your next belt".

But you said you're 40 - that's almost as old as me (I started when I was 38) - do you really need the constant external validation?

Not "external validation," but something measurable to look forward to.

 

[pdg]

yes, but there's a limit, your still doing the same old thing over again, unless there some step up( progressive overload) in the demands your going to top out pretty quickly.

back in the olden days when i did kung fu, the training was brutal, not the fight training, that was just the usual that consisted of a lot of standing about with a bit of jumping about,the 40 minutes of circuit train we did at the beginning of class.

but no one was forcing that, lots stop as soon as it got difficult, some quite a lot before that.

so i got quite ridiculously fit whilst most walked out in the same rotund out of shape condition they walked in.

so it depends greatly on what value the instructer put on fitness as to how much of his time and your effort gets devoted to it.

art that have a competitive outlets seem to devote more to fitness than them that don't, for the simple reason that being unfitter than your opponent is a good way to lose quickly

The demands aren't placed on me by the instructors, they're placed on me by me.

 

[Rusty B]

You'd be losing that bet...

The basis of my bet? I have yet to see an out-of-shape brown belt.

 

[pdg]

When I was eyeballing hapkido about a year ago, the dojang I was inquiring at only had two or three adult classes per week.

In THAT case, I can see it not being possible in six weeks.

There are seven adult classes per week where I train.

To answer your last question... the difference is about the same as that between morning PT in the military and taking the PT test.

That is... until today, so far. My first class as a gold belt, and having to do kicks from the straddle leg stance. I've got much work to do.

No, it's just not possible in 6 weeks.

There's a minimum of 24 class attendances, and in addition:

There's a minimum of 3 months, whether you go twice a week or seven times a week.

You might test after 24 classes, you might do 84. Still got to clock those 3 months.

If you only go once a week, then the minimum is 6 months.

 

[pdg]

Not "external validation," but something measurable to look forward to.

Look forward to a different pair of trousers, or a faster time going up the stairs - those are something measurable to look forward to.