S
superdave
Guest
His story must have been wrong. The Guadalcanal battle took place from August 42 until Febuary 43. Kind of makes you wonder about the rest of the story. Hmmmm.
His story must have been wrong. The Guadalcanal battle took place from August 42 until Febuary 43. Kind of makes you wonder about the rest of the story. Hmmmm.
Shuri Ryu Sonny
White Belt
you mean daughter...?
AMP-RYU
Black Belt
Dude!!!!! This thread is 5 years old my man!
AMP-RYU
Black Belt
almost 6!
Shuri Ryu Sonny
White Belt
I am new to these forums and basic just searched my style to see what i would find.
iamvoodoochile
White Belt
I've been a student of Mr. David O. Foreman for over 25 years. His style isn't American TKD, his student "Ron White" opposed to "Ralph White" created that term/style. Mr. White is a dear friend of mine and was the second student Mr. Foreman ever promoted to black-belt. Mr. Sparks being the first. Master Glen Keeney (Goju Ryu) was is adopted instructor (not his student) once Mr. Foreman returned to the United States. Mr. Foreman trained under Master Kang Ik Lee in Korea in Moo Duk Kwan, Tae Kwan Do, in which Mr. Foreman still teaches today. Master Kang Ik Lee had been voted the president of the Tae Kwan Do Association just before Mr. Foreman returned to the states. Master Kang Ik Lee was also one of Hwang Kee's top students. To straighten up the forms issue, most forms have Chinese origins... Bassai comes from long fist kung-fu... [ Bassai is not the highest form in our system, I'm sorry you never had a chance to learn the rest. Though Bassai-Sho is my favorite
] Hinon comes from Okinawa Pinon. Korea has been occupied by Japan several time and recently before Mr. Foreman was there. So Japanese influence was very present, especially in the martial arts during that time. It's debated that Master Hwang Kee learned his forms from Japanese Master Gichin Funakoshi and made them "more Korean" when returning to Korea. Master Hwang Kee and Kang Ik Lee taught those forms before the Tae Kwan Do/Tang Soo Do/etc Associations voted on their unified forms. I assure you Mr. Foreman has not changed them from the way he was taught. I've ran into other descendants of Master Kang Ik Lee, who run the same katas the same way. To straighten you out on terminology Mr. Foreman knows both the Korean and Japanese terms and teaches them in English. Remember terminology is just semantics. Honestly even the terms Karate, Kung-fu, and Tae Kwan Do all elude to the same idea's and principals. All this breaks down the barriers with other clubs and styles and allows his student to be at home and grow in any Dojo and Dojang and truly expand his knowledge. Remember to place emphasizesis in the correct location... traditions evolve, but linage and proper ethics remain true. Here is some truth about Master Trais. Master Trais wasn't the first to bring martial arts to the united states. We know this because the Chinese rail road workers. Master Trais, however was the first person to setup and register a "Karate" Dojo as a business to the public in 1946, he also set up the United States Karate Association (USKA). Which spawn one of the largest martial arts followings in the world. His accomplishments and role in American Martial Arts were very great and have great influence on the Masters of Today. He was/is the Father of American Karate.Yudanshakai
White Belt
History has no time boundries and I stumbled across this post many years later. I have a unique perspective for I am directly connected to both individuals Grand Master Trias and Dave Foreman in this post and have a dojo in Muncie.
I studied under Larry Sparks, Dave Foremans first black belt and due to an industrial accident to Mr. Sparks, my training took up with Ron White where I recieved a black belt.
This journey in the martial way led me to Pheonix Arizona where my training in Shuri-Ryu began. While living in California, Grand Master Trias connected me with one of his first Chief Instructors Pete Rabino in Laguna Beach who is my teacher in Shuri-Ryu.
From 1982 until the death of Grand Master Trias in 1989, I had the uniqueness of training on a regular basis in the Trias dojo in Phoenix Arizona traveling with Master Trias across the United States, and globally on many occassions. I have had an eye witness account of many of the historical documents that Grand Master Trias kept, as well as many of the photographs and signatures that support the documentation.
Personally with 40 years in the martial arts and currently a Chief Instructor of Shuri-Ryu, I felt obligated to shed some light to some of the post that are not factual.
Grand Master Trias was a sailor in the United States Navy and was a combat veteran. He was a member of the Navy's Underwater Demolition Teams. He was involved in the pre-invasion covert operations in the Guadal Canal theater. During combat actions, Grand Master Trias and other UDT operators were involved in training local indigenous forces to fight against the Imperial Japanese army. During this time, there were areas of the Solomon islands that were secured by the United States Marine Corps. Tulagi was one of those areas. Grand Master Trias did meet Tung Gee Hsing on this island and the story is true about the little asain guy who kept pestering him during his work out. Hsing wanted to learn about American Boxing, but Grand Master Trias was impatient. Mr Trias invited him into the ring to give him an "Attitude Adjustment" after the work out, (Grand Master personllay told me this story) that that was the worst *** beating he had ever had. After the match he asked to train under master Hsing. Tung Gee Hsing was a master of Hsing Yi and a student of Choki Motobu.
(Grand Master Trias never claimed to have trained under Choki Motobu! Just under one of Motobu's chief instructors Tung Gee Hsing. This is well documented).
Tung Gee Hsing trained Grand Master Trias in Shuri-te, Motobu-ha, and Hsing-yi.
Tulagi was not the only place that Tung Gee Hsing and Grand Master Trias were at and trained together.
During this time, Grand Master Trias was still involved in combat operations against Japanese.
Grand Master Trias was captured during a combat operation and was held as a Prisoner of War tortured extensively by the Japanese. After many weeks in captivity, Grand Master Trias with other American servicemen and several indeneous fighters escaped and made their way back to friendly lines. After being repaitriated, Trias was able to re-connect with Tung Gee Hsing and continue training. It was in 1943 that Tung Gee Hsing promoted Grand Master Trias to Black Belt. This promotion certificate was available to view in the Trias office.
Not until other orders were recieved and deployed, did Grand Master Trias land in Singapore. The Hock Keng Temple in Singapore (which is still there) is where Grand Master Trias continued his training under Hoy Yuan Ping. Grand Master Trias was referred there by Tung Gee Hsing. Near the end of the war, and not long after, Grand Master Trias did see Tung Gee Hsing a couple more times. But eventually Grand Master Trias learned of Tung Gee Hsing death.
We can only suspect that there were martial artist here on the mainland prior to Grand Master Trias. But, as it is said, unless it is put to paper in never happened. It is well documented that Grand Master Trias is the Father of Karate in America. (NOT American Karate).
This is supported by the Arizona Supreme Court and was documented by a Supreme Court Justice which was on the bench at the time. It is true that this Justice was a student of Grand Master Trias which gave him ability to validate the documentation for the record. Grand Master Trias opened the first dojo in the United States, started the first martial arts organization, United States Karate Association, (which in it's zenith was the largest martial arts organization in the world). Grand Master Trias establised the first tournaments in America, the first Professional Karate Tournament, some of the first training films as well.
On promoting the martial arts in America, Grand Master Trias was the leader regardless of style. He developed, sponsored, aided, supported, and trained some of the greatest martial artist in the United States. Not only in Karate, but also in Judo. Grand Master Trias was also one of the leaders in the Judo world as well under his Judo instructor Yamada Sensei from the Kodakan.
Of the most spirited competitors, and one of the most coveted prises was to be inducted into the Trias International Society. (Since the passing of Grand Master Trias in 1989 the Trias International Society no longer accepts new members. The follow on to the Trias International Society is the Bowles International Budo Society). In the Muncie area there are two members of the Trias International Society and one member of the Bowles International Budo Society. Indiana has historically produced some of our countries most talented martial artist.
Grand Master Trias for many years traveled around the world researching, documenting, putting a Gi on and working out in dojo's over seas and a number of these I was personally present with him.
In 1983, there was a seperation of many of the Grand Masters in Okinawa due to political in fighting. Grand Master Trias brought all of the masters together in one large gathering, (that was filmed) and re-unified these gentlemen and opened doors to re-develop tattered relations.
Members of the U.S. delagation i.e. Robert Bowles, and Ridgley Abele to name a couple, held demonstrations. Shuri-Ryu was performed for these masters.
Grand Master Trias who had been training and student for some time under Yasuhiro Konishi (Chief Instructor under Choki Motobu), and Shinkin "Makato" Gima ( Chief Instructor under Gichin Funakoshi) had recieved written documentation and authorization recognizing Robert A. Trias as Grand Master of all Shuri-Ryu Karatedo.
Grand Master Trias a close friend of Hohan Soken, Shogen Nobuchi Oyakawa, Suzuki, Hizataka, Odo, Yagi, Nagamine, Uechi, and Miyagi to name a few. Many of these masters I was present to meet, and watch them roll out the red carpet for Grand Master Trias. They were friends, they talked on a regular basis via, letter, phone, and in person and I watched him work out with some.
Since his passing, I have returned back to Japan and Okinawa with the next generation, traveling with Grand Master Robert Bowles. We have met with the next generation of Grand Master Trias's teachers, Takahiro Konishi (son), and the two senior Chief Instructors under Grand Master Gima. Grand Master Bowles, has picked up where O'Sensei Trias left off, and has continued to spread the Shuri-Ryu System to over 75,000 practioners around the world.
The old United States Karate Association is safe and in posession of Grand Master Bowles and that history has been secured.
Grand Master Trias's daughter Roberta and his wife Mrs. Trias are still alive and doing well.
The Shuri-Ryu system has been organized under the International Shuri-Ryu association with O'Sensei Bowles as the style head. There is a cadre of Chief Instructors internationally to propagate the system and there is a assistant Chief Instructor and Chief Instructor training program. There are numerous Shuri-ryu training symposiums around the world each year.
Grand Master Trias has written several books and since, Grand Master Bowles, and other Shuri-Ryu Chief instructors have written books, and produced training films. (Much has been improved since the 1960's books written). Shuri written documentation began in the early 1940's, and when put to book form was some of the first early documentation of the martial arts put to print.
Weather you believe in Grand Master Trias's work, or his authentication is up to you.
It was important to share from an eye witness account what I personally observed, read, and photographed on my own. Through the years while gi'd up with Grand Master Trias, I have been thrown, swept, punched, kicked, choked, sparred with weapons, trained, and patched up by Grand Master Trias.
I was a stranger but for a moment, he opened up his arms and took me in, I slept on the floor in the dojo, taught classes for him on occassion, he fed me at times, and unknown to me until years later, he wrote letters to my parents letting them know that I was safe and he was watching out for me. You could not help but like him, with his big smile and laugh, to his great stories, jokes, and warm personality. He loved to read, cook, and was a great dancer and was known to win dance contests and be awarded trips across the country.
He was like a father to my teacher Pete Rabino, and those tennents that I just spoke of, were every bit a part of my teacher. On Grand Master Trias's passing, as some of his closest students stood by his grave, there was not a dry eye, broken hearts that still bleed, and a grave that is still visited with gifts left on a regular basis, and at times late in the dark of the cemetary, there can be a student found practicing kata and a kiai that sails through the cool Arizona evening air.
As for Mr. Foreman, Grand Master Trias was not his teacher. There is a very informative post that gives some good details to Mr. Foreman. If you have questions for Mr. Foreman, I suggest that you stop by his dojo and ask him. I am sure that he will tell you. Mr. Foreman has been a good friend and has a great karate history in the tournament ring from back in the 70's with the Indiana team, of Foreman, Bowles, Kenney, and Shelton. There is a great film that I know of from back in the 70's of Mr. Foreman in a match. An old 8mm.. ha ha
Also let's just say, if you work out with Mr. Foreman do not rub him on the top of the head or
he will chase you down the stairs. ha ha Just ask Bill superfoot Wallace.:jediduel:
That fighting spirit carried onto the rest of us.
The first dojo to open in Muncie was by Frank Shannon, a Judoka. He was trained and earned his black belt at the Kodakan in Japan.
Mr. Foreman, and Dr. Park were to follow.
Any questions swing by the dojo
I studied under Larry Sparks, Dave Foremans first black belt and due to an industrial accident to Mr. Sparks, my training took up with Ron White where I recieved a black belt.
This journey in the martial way led me to Pheonix Arizona where my training in Shuri-Ryu began. While living in California, Grand Master Trias connected me with one of his first Chief Instructors Pete Rabino in Laguna Beach who is my teacher in Shuri-Ryu.
From 1982 until the death of Grand Master Trias in 1989, I had the uniqueness of training on a regular basis in the Trias dojo in Phoenix Arizona traveling with Master Trias across the United States, and globally on many occassions. I have had an eye witness account of many of the historical documents that Grand Master Trias kept, as well as many of the photographs and signatures that support the documentation.
Personally with 40 years in the martial arts and currently a Chief Instructor of Shuri-Ryu, I felt obligated to shed some light to some of the post that are not factual.
Grand Master Trias was a sailor in the United States Navy and was a combat veteran. He was a member of the Navy's Underwater Demolition Teams. He was involved in the pre-invasion covert operations in the Guadal Canal theater. During combat actions, Grand Master Trias and other UDT operators were involved in training local indigenous forces to fight against the Imperial Japanese army. During this time, there were areas of the Solomon islands that were secured by the United States Marine Corps. Tulagi was one of those areas. Grand Master Trias did meet Tung Gee Hsing on this island and the story is true about the little asain guy who kept pestering him during his work out. Hsing wanted to learn about American Boxing, but Grand Master Trias was impatient. Mr Trias invited him into the ring to give him an "Attitude Adjustment" after the work out, (Grand Master personllay told me this story) that that was the worst *** beating he had ever had. After the match he asked to train under master Hsing. Tung Gee Hsing was a master of Hsing Yi and a student of Choki Motobu.
(Grand Master Trias never claimed to have trained under Choki Motobu! Just under one of Motobu's chief instructors Tung Gee Hsing. This is well documented).
Tung Gee Hsing trained Grand Master Trias in Shuri-te, Motobu-ha, and Hsing-yi.
Tulagi was not the only place that Tung Gee Hsing and Grand Master Trias were at and trained together.
During this time, Grand Master Trias was still involved in combat operations against Japanese.
Grand Master Trias was captured during a combat operation and was held as a Prisoner of War tortured extensively by the Japanese. After many weeks in captivity, Grand Master Trias with other American servicemen and several indeneous fighters escaped and made their way back to friendly lines. After being repaitriated, Trias was able to re-connect with Tung Gee Hsing and continue training. It was in 1943 that Tung Gee Hsing promoted Grand Master Trias to Black Belt. This promotion certificate was available to view in the Trias office.
Not until other orders were recieved and deployed, did Grand Master Trias land in Singapore. The Hock Keng Temple in Singapore (which is still there) is where Grand Master Trias continued his training under Hoy Yuan Ping. Grand Master Trias was referred there by Tung Gee Hsing. Near the end of the war, and not long after, Grand Master Trias did see Tung Gee Hsing a couple more times. But eventually Grand Master Trias learned of Tung Gee Hsing death.
We can only suspect that there were martial artist here on the mainland prior to Grand Master Trias. But, as it is said, unless it is put to paper in never happened. It is well documented that Grand Master Trias is the Father of Karate in America. (NOT American Karate).
This is supported by the Arizona Supreme Court and was documented by a Supreme Court Justice which was on the bench at the time. It is true that this Justice was a student of Grand Master Trias which gave him ability to validate the documentation for the record. Grand Master Trias opened the first dojo in the United States, started the first martial arts organization, United States Karate Association, (which in it's zenith was the largest martial arts organization in the world). Grand Master Trias establised the first tournaments in America, the first Professional Karate Tournament, some of the first training films as well.
On promoting the martial arts in America, Grand Master Trias was the leader regardless of style. He developed, sponsored, aided, supported, and trained some of the greatest martial artist in the United States. Not only in Karate, but also in Judo. Grand Master Trias was also one of the leaders in the Judo world as well under his Judo instructor Yamada Sensei from the Kodakan.
Of the most spirited competitors, and one of the most coveted prises was to be inducted into the Trias International Society. (Since the passing of Grand Master Trias in 1989 the Trias International Society no longer accepts new members. The follow on to the Trias International Society is the Bowles International Budo Society). In the Muncie area there are two members of the Trias International Society and one member of the Bowles International Budo Society. Indiana has historically produced some of our countries most talented martial artist.
Grand Master Trias for many years traveled around the world researching, documenting, putting a Gi on and working out in dojo's over seas and a number of these I was personally present with him.
In 1983, there was a seperation of many of the Grand Masters in Okinawa due to political in fighting. Grand Master Trias brought all of the masters together in one large gathering, (that was filmed) and re-unified these gentlemen and opened doors to re-develop tattered relations.
Members of the U.S. delagation i.e. Robert Bowles, and Ridgley Abele to name a couple, held demonstrations. Shuri-Ryu was performed for these masters.
Grand Master Trias who had been training and student for some time under Yasuhiro Konishi (Chief Instructor under Choki Motobu), and Shinkin "Makato" Gima ( Chief Instructor under Gichin Funakoshi) had recieved written documentation and authorization recognizing Robert A. Trias as Grand Master of all Shuri-Ryu Karatedo.
Grand Master Trias a close friend of Hohan Soken, Shogen Nobuchi Oyakawa, Suzuki, Hizataka, Odo, Yagi, Nagamine, Uechi, and Miyagi to name a few. Many of these masters I was present to meet, and watch them roll out the red carpet for Grand Master Trias. They were friends, they talked on a regular basis via, letter, phone, and in person and I watched him work out with some.
Since his passing, I have returned back to Japan and Okinawa with the next generation, traveling with Grand Master Robert Bowles. We have met with the next generation of Grand Master Trias's teachers, Takahiro Konishi (son), and the two senior Chief Instructors under Grand Master Gima. Grand Master Bowles, has picked up where O'Sensei Trias left off, and has continued to spread the Shuri-Ryu System to over 75,000 practioners around the world.
The old United States Karate Association is safe and in posession of Grand Master Bowles and that history has been secured.
Grand Master Trias's daughter Roberta and his wife Mrs. Trias are still alive and doing well.
The Shuri-Ryu system has been organized under the International Shuri-Ryu association with O'Sensei Bowles as the style head. There is a cadre of Chief Instructors internationally to propagate the system and there is a assistant Chief Instructor and Chief Instructor training program. There are numerous Shuri-ryu training symposiums around the world each year.
Grand Master Trias has written several books and since, Grand Master Bowles, and other Shuri-Ryu Chief instructors have written books, and produced training films. (Much has been improved since the 1960's books written). Shuri written documentation began in the early 1940's, and when put to book form was some of the first early documentation of the martial arts put to print.
Weather you believe in Grand Master Trias's work, or his authentication is up to you.
It was important to share from an eye witness account what I personally observed, read, and photographed on my own. Through the years while gi'd up with Grand Master Trias, I have been thrown, swept, punched, kicked, choked, sparred with weapons, trained, and patched up by Grand Master Trias.
I was a stranger but for a moment, he opened up his arms and took me in, I slept on the floor in the dojo, taught classes for him on occassion, he fed me at times, and unknown to me until years later, he wrote letters to my parents letting them know that I was safe and he was watching out for me. You could not help but like him, with his big smile and laugh, to his great stories, jokes, and warm personality. He loved to read, cook, and was a great dancer and was known to win dance contests and be awarded trips across the country.
He was like a father to my teacher Pete Rabino, and those tennents that I just spoke of, were every bit a part of my teacher. On Grand Master Trias's passing, as some of his closest students stood by his grave, there was not a dry eye, broken hearts that still bleed, and a grave that is still visited with gifts left on a regular basis, and at times late in the dark of the cemetary, there can be a student found practicing kata and a kiai that sails through the cool Arizona evening air.
As for Mr. Foreman, Grand Master Trias was not his teacher. There is a very informative post that gives some good details to Mr. Foreman. If you have questions for Mr. Foreman, I suggest that you stop by his dojo and ask him. I am sure that he will tell you. Mr. Foreman has been a good friend and has a great karate history in the tournament ring from back in the 70's with the Indiana team, of Foreman, Bowles, Kenney, and Shelton. There is a great film that I know of from back in the 70's of Mr. Foreman in a match. An old 8mm.. ha ha
Also let's just say, if you work out with Mr. Foreman do not rub him on the top of the head or
he will chase you down the stairs. ha ha Just ask Bill superfoot Wallace.:jediduel:
That fighting spirit carried onto the rest of us.
The first dojo to open in Muncie was by Frank Shannon, a Judoka. He was trained and earned his black belt at the Kodakan in Japan.
Mr. Foreman, and Dr. Park were to follow.
Any questions swing by the dojo
TimoS
Master of Arts
What is documented (and especially where)? That Trias trained under someone named Tung Gee Hsing or that this individual was Motobu's student?
Noah_Legel
Blue Belt
I've heard that history told several times before, although you had some extra names and details I hadn't heard. Would you be Mr. Sheridan, by any chance? I'm just guessing because I used to train Shuri-Ryu in Illinois under Mr. Walker and his son Joey Johnston (I train Shorin-Ryu under one of Mr. Bethea's students now and still visit and train every time I go back home) but I like to think I'm still part of the "Shuri-Ryu family" back home and the only Chief Instructors I know of in Indiana are Mr. Bowles and Mr. Sheridan, though I haven't had the pleasure of meeting either.
Yudanshakai
White Belt
I asked Konishi and he said so for one. Also you are going to be hard pressed to find a list of all Motubu's students because Master Konishi said that Motobu was not known for keeping much as far as historical documentation. Although Motobu did publish a book with photo's. O. The book focused on Kumite. The are various articles written on Konishi Pat McCarthy has done some very good work on him as well. One thing that Grandmaster Trias was good at was documentating this history As a former Arizona Highway Patrolman was part of the command staff. Those of us who have been to the orient and done historical research have found little written and more passed through the dojo's. GM Trias did a good job of writing this down. Konishi validated Tung Gee Hsing.
Yudanshakai
White Belt
If you get by Muncie, stop into the dojo you have an invite. Location is 2610 S. Mock.
Noah_Legel
Blue Belt
Thank you very much, sir, both for the information and the invitation! I don't know when I will be in the Midwest again but if I'm ever in Muncie I'll definitely stop by!
Last edited:
miguksaram
Master of Arts
Thank you for the insight. I have been a student of Shorei-ryu under Sensei John Sharkey for over 8 years. This has been very interesting and informative information to read.
punisher73
Senior Master
Chris Freeman
Yellow Belt
I found this thread while researching Robert Trias. My exact search parameters were "Was Robert Trias a fraud?" I've done martial arts since 1989, and in my years of experience all martial arts are "bullshido", eliminating belt ranks and "lineages" would benefit the entire martial arts community.
I disagree.
.
I have seen arts that had only teacher and student as unofficial ranks still have egos and BS in them.
.
I have seen the arts that most who practice claim other arts are bull-shi-do also have ranks.
.
Your statement just seems inflammatory to see if you can raise blood pressure and cause a scene.
.
No comment on Robert Trias as I have no knowledge of the person / art / situation. I just saw an old thread was necro'd
Chris Freeman
Yellow Belt
Disagreement is fine, but there's no denying that every single martial art today fits the definition of Bullshido because there are no "pure" martial arts.
Define "pure".
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