Global warming

[jks9199]

The other dirty secret about CFLs is that a lot of the energy savings, especially in cold climates, is not truly realized.

First, any application requiring a real dimmer will use halogen, which waste a lot of heat.

Second, in cold climates, for the better part of the year, we HEAT our house. The surplus heat that incadescent bulbs used to provide is now being provided by other source of heating.

I'd be curious to see how much heat that actually adds up to, though. I could see it being a big deal in a business, but not so much at home. I don't know about you -- but at home, I try to keep lights OFF unless I need 'em on.

 

[Empty Hands]

We only have accurate day-by-day records for the past few hundred years. We have no basis on which to make a projection of global cycles.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Furthermore, the first statement does not lead to the second. We do not need day-to-day records to study climate cycles of the past, determine what caused them, and project them into the future based on how variables such as solar output and CO2 levels play into climate.

The kind of data that let us know how climate varied in the past includes tree ring analysis, isotopic analysis of ice cores, coral, and stalactites, and similar. If you do not believe the data, then provide your scientific critique. If you cannot, then you are substituting opinion and ideology for actual data.

 

[CanuckMA]

I'd be curious to see how much heat that actually adds up to, though. I could see it being a big deal in a business, but not so much at home. I don't know about you -- but at home, I try to keep lights OFF unless I need 'em on.

For one thing I can tell you that my basement was always cold, summer and winter, until I renovated it and installed halogens.

As for incadescents, there are many rooms that have the lights on most of the time. In the winter, it's dark by 1600. Even if it raises the temp by only 1 degree, that's 1 degree that my furnace does not have to deal with.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Furthermore, the first statement does not lead to the second. We do not need day-to-day records to study climate cycles of the past, determine what caused them, and project them into the future based on how variables such as solar output and CO2 levels play into climate.

You do when you use day-by-day temperature readings to predict future temperatures, and limit the data set to the period of time in which the data has been reliably gathered. And that's what has been done.

You are absolutely correct that you can study climate cycles of the past based on other things, such as the geological record. This does allow for some forecasting, but that's not the basis for the claim for AGW. And it has big holes in it anyway, since several cataclysmic events do not have agreed-upon causes yet.

The kind of data that let us know how climate varied in the past includes tree ring analysis, isotopic analysis of ice cores, coral, and stalactites, and similar. If you do not believe the data, then provide your scientific critique. If you cannot, then you are substituting opinion and ideology for actual data.

You're quite right about the climatological record. I only dispute that AGW is real, and to that extent, I only claim doubt, not denial.

I am against any attempts to pry money from me for the purpose of fixing the damage we humans have allegedly done to the planet. Add that to the fact that I don't care if it's real or not and that's my sum ideology on the subject. It doesn't affect me, I don't care.

 

[teekin]

Department of Irony here...

The US is planning to phase out the use of mercury thermometers over the next decade, as mercury pollutes. Mercury batteries for such things as film cameras were phased out a decade ago, they're illegal everywhere now.

Funny thing - environmentally-friendly CFL (compact florescent lights) have significant amounts of mercury in them, but they're legal. Why? Because they're hip and trendy and fashionable amongst the Granola-crunching bunny-hugging hand-wringers, that's why.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198

They pretend they 'fixed' the problem by making it illegal to discard them in landfills, meaning it's illegal for YOU to throw them away with your household trash. Did you know that? Most people don't. They just throw them away when they die. And the greenies don't care; it's just a sop for their consciences.

Mercury? Who gives a crap? We're saving the planet, bubba!

Thermometers and cameras batteries are or will be outlawed due to mercury, but CFL's, no problem at all. Bring 'em on!

Ah, the environmentalists make me sick.

I am so a granola eating, tree hugging bunny lover! and I like being one. Part of my farm out by Neepawa is still the way it was when my great great grandparents bought it as Bush. It is left as bush and has never been cleared to farm. This is done Just so the native animals have a place to call home. I plan to donate it to some organisation like Ducks Unlimited the cares about preserving the animals and their habitat. It makes my soul happy to take care of that small corner of Planet Earth. Bill, perhaps because I was brought up on the land I have a special love for it. Too bad I couldn't share the beauty and peacefullness of this corner of the world with you. I would you know.

Lori

 

[Carol]

Provided I'm still gainfully employed in the coming months, I'm thinking very seriously about the LED bulbs. I'm 5'2", but my ceilings are 8 feet high. I looooove the idea of light bulbs that can be used for years without burning out.

 

[Sukerkin]

I'd be curious to see how much heat that actually adds up to, though. I could see it being a big deal in a business, but not so much at home. I don't know about you -- but at home, I try to keep lights OFF unless I need 'em on.

Over time it is quite a bit of wasted energy as heat, JKS. You can make functional ovens out of an insulated box and a 100W incandescent bulb.

I am not in favour of the current crop of supposed 'green' light bulbs tho. Just as with the hybrid car, they address a portion of one problem but give rise to several others.

The technology will improve over time, of course, so it can be argued that we must start somewhere but the exaggerated claims of effectiveness for the new (ish) fluorescent bulbs are not helping the adoption rate in the slightest.

 

[Sukerkin]

One thing that I always bring up when we hit the 'doomsday' portion of discussions like this, is that, as Bill noted earlier, solar flares are our biggest worry right now. The magnetic poles are shifting and will invert over the next few decades {if they are to follow the observed pattern record locked into the geology}.

During the transition process, we will be practically defenseless against the solar wind in general and flares in particular - the Van Allen belts that protect us against charged particles have been declining in strength for some time and are continuing to weaken.

Other than staying inside/under some form of cover and using skin protection creams, there is nothing we can do about that other than hope that a flare goes in a direction other than at us.

 

[elder999]

During the transition process, we will be practically defenseless against the solar wind in general and flares in particular - the Van Allen belts that protect us against charged particles have been declining in strength for some time and are continuing to weaken.

Other than staying inside/under some form of cover and using skin protection creams, there is nothing we can do about that other than hope that a flare goes in a direction other than at us.

Nah-not only do the extra intense X-rays of such flares not quite penentrate our atmosphere, but they actually are likely to cause increased ionization in the ionosphere-a deepening of the ionosphere that will offer added protection against a lot of those charged particles in lieu of the Van Allen belts (which'll come back, eventually, under such a scenario.)

What we'd likely see is an increase in atmospheric size, affecting the orbits of satellites, and an increase of electromagnetic activity affecting power grids, radio and television, and the like: no more internets, no more cell phones, no more radio, no more electric light-led, incandescent, flourescent or otherwise for many of us......

Oh, and all you white folk are probably doomed. Sorry.....:lfao:

 

[Blade96]

Provided I'm still gainfully employed in the coming months, I'm thinking very seriously about the LED bulbs. I'm 5'2", but my ceilings are 8 feet high. I looooove the idea of light bulbs that can be used for years without burning out.

im only 5'2 also

 

[teekin]

Nah-not only do the extra intense X-rays of such flares not quite penentrate our atmosphere, but they actually are likely to cause increased ionization in the ionosphere-a deepening of the ionosphere that will offer added protection against a lot of those charged particles in lieu of the Van Allen belts (which'll come back, eventually, under such a scenario.)

What we'd likely see is an increase in atmospheric size, affecting the orbits of satellites, and an increase of electromagnetic activity affecting power grids, radio and television, and the like: no more internets, no more cell phones, no more radio, no more electric light-led, incandescent, flourescent or otherwise for many of us......

Oh, and all you white folk are probably doomed. Sorry.....:lfao:

We all be trying to breath the same air, big guy. (Sock Monkies ebonics)

Lori

 

[Sukerkin]

Nah-not only do the extra intense X-rays of such flares not quite penentrate our atmosphere, but they actually are likely to cause increased ionization in the ionosphere-a deepening of the ionosphere that will offer added protection against a lot of those charged particles in lieu of the Van Allen belts (which'll come back, eventually, under such a scenario.)

What we'd likely see is an increase in atmospheric size, affecting the orbits of satellites, and an increase of electromagnetic activity affecting power grids, radio and television, and the like: no more internets, no more cell phones, no more radio, no more electric light-led, incandescent, flourescent or otherwise for many of us......

Interesting - that's a change to the pop-science 'line' that I've heard over the past decade or so {the last time being on the Horizon programme on the BBC I think, tho' that might be a mis-memory, on my part, of a 'debunking myths' programme}.

Time to investigate further the current state of play on this.

My only contact {yeah, dual electrical systems pun attacks! } I have with the topic is through my job, as the control systems for electricity transmission and distribution is what I design and implement for a living.

So I make no claims to expertise in the field {and yet again with the pun attacks !} and am only relaying {and yet once further! } the words of others that I have stored in the chemically switched capacitor that is my memory {:wink:}.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Interesting - that's a change to the pop-science 'line' that I've heard over the past decade or so {the last time being on the Horizon programme on the BBC I think}.

Time to investigate further the current state of play on this.

My only contact {yeah, dual electrical systems pun attacks! } I have with the topic is through my job, as the control systems for electricity transmission and distribution is what I design and implement for a living.

So I make no claims to expertise in the field {and yet again with the pun attacks !} and am only relaying {and yet once further! } the words of others that I have stored in the chemically switched capacitor that is my memory {:wink:}.

The sun has been unusually quiet for the last several 11-year cycles, and signs point to that changing now. As most know, the sun has roughly 11-year cycles of solar flare activity, which at its peak, often disrupts electrical activity on earth. The fact that things have been unusually quiet has led to the building of a lot of new infrastructure in the past 20 years that is NOT well shielded from such activity. Now predictions are for peak activity in 2013. The last major hit took out a big section of the Canadian power grid. Some predictions go so far as to posit that the North American power grid (the least primitive and therefore more vulnerable) could be taken completely down for 'years'. No fooling.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38310467/ns/technology_and_science-space/

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...olar_flare_storm_could_lose_power_commun.html

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/07/19/severe-space-weather-warning/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-e-joseph/the-solar-katrina-storm-t_b_641354.html

Death, destruction, the toppling of empires, calamity awaits us all. We live on the edge of a frying pan, poised to topple into the fire. AGW? Doesn't bother me. Apres moi, le deluge, baby.