OP
OP
But we're not. For example, the Kyoto Accords.
Global Warming Explained
- Thread starter Bill Mattocks
- Start date
But we're not. For example, the Kyoto Accords.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
would you be willing to stop ******** in my food bowl? You are dancing around the answer.
OP
OP
No, I'm being fairly clear. The answer is, if it costs me money, then I'm not interested in changing anything I do. Especially if it costs me money and gives other countries a competitive advantage over mine.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Let the record show that Bill Mattocks believes he has the right to **** in everybody's food bowls, especially if his financial interests would be affected.
http://www.actionforourplanet.com/#/top-10-polluting-countries/4541684868
I had based my opinion previously on China and India being the top two polluting nations.
I had based my opinion previously on China and India being the top two polluting nations.
OP
OP
Glad you got that out of your system.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
the record is clear. I'm surprised you actually feel this way.
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
Thats my biggest problem with the entire Global Warming theroy. They want the US to change, Pay more for the things we make, tax ther CO2 output for companies, yet our competators in the world market dont need to follow the same rules.
So It now causes even more jobs to go overseas, higher prices for products I need to support my family, and has little impact on the enviorment since places like China, Mexico, India, middle east and Africa dont change anything.
To top it all off there is still ZERO proof that climate change has anything to do with people. So we will handcap the few manufacturing jobs we have left in this country and cause everyone to pay more for things for nothing and the entire time these go Green activists like Al Gore and leo decaprio will still have private jets, huge houses, and pockets full of money they have made off the Go Green movement.
OP
OP
Feel what way? You're the one who wanted to make me the bad guy.
All I want to do it be left alone and not charged money to fix something that we don't know we broke, don't know can be fixed, and don't know if our 'fixing' will actually fix it. I also don't want my country to become less competitive worldwide because we're an 'advanced nation' whilst 'developing nations' like India and China do not have apply the same kind of pollution controls to their industries, leaving them able to out-compete us on price.
As I said, I don't tell you to give money so that I can live my life. And if you want to save the world, have at it. Just don't ask me to pay for whatever it is you think we should be doing.
I separate my recyclables in my trash, and give my bottles with deposits on them to the Boy Scouts when they come around once a year. I keep my car tuned up. Unless we really *are* all in this together - meaning everyone in all nations - then I'm not willing to do more for something that might or might not be a problem anyway.
If that's a surprise to you, I'm a little surprised myself. I've always said I'm a conservative; it's only the ultra-right-wingers on MT who say I'm not.
Empty Hands
Senior Master
Absolutely false. You can believe what you like, but you aren't entitled to your own facts. There is a very large pile of evidence showing just that.
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
All I can say is you can march out your 50 experts that prove your point of view and I can find 50 more experts that disprove your point. Why are your experts more right then mine? Fact is they have no Facts its all opinions of so called "experts". Water freezes at 32 degs is a fact. We all stop driving cars and the temps of the planet will stop changing is NOT a fact.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Bill, I asked you if you would be willing to stop ******** in my food bowl. You couldn't even say "yes" to that on a hypothetical level, without tagging on "only if I don't have to pay anything for it". Here's the funny thing: you and I both eat out of the same food bowl. So by ******** in my food bowl, you also **** in your own. It's all connected. Whether or not you believe in human driven gobal climate change, the rate at which we pollute our environment and spoil our natural resources such as water supplies and food sources, is astounding. Global climate change or not, pollution is bad for us all.
and yet you cannot even bring yourself to say, "I'd be willing to stop ******** in the food bowl". Nevermind the political issues surrounding it, nevermind what other nations might be doing or not doing, you can't even say it for yourself.
If you look like the bad guy in this, it's because of what you have said.
Empty Hands
Senior Master
No, you can't.
Even if you could though it would still disprove your assertion that there is "no evidence."
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
You trying to say I cant find enviormental Scientists that will say Man Made Global Warming is a Hoax? There are just as many that say its fake as there are that say its real. All have the same big fancy degrees from the same big fancy schools.
Empty Hands
Senior Master
Can you find them? Yes. Are there "just as many"? No, not by a long shot. Consensus in the field is greater than 20 to 1 at least.
Me too - we've been around this dance-floor a couple of times but I thought BillM had more sense than that.
Try expressing the problem on non-AGW terms to see if it helps think things through. e.g if you don't pay a dollar to push the button on this device that's strapped to your wrist with a timer counting down, it might do nothing or it might blow your hand off. What do you do?
Agreed wholeheartedly :nods:.
But why does being a Conservative have to mean you're not willing to take a punt on doing something about an issue that if we don't fix it we will have big troubles ahead? If the temperature keeps rising, the human race is in 'harms way' {again}, so we need to figure out if there is anything meaningful we can do to stop it before it is too late. On that basis, it is almost irrelevant if what we have done as a 7 Billion Strong species is making things worse. AGW or not-AGW the thermometer is rising ...
(deleted because someone already made the point I was going to and I should have read throughthe whole thread before I posted instead of being a TOOL)
Ballen0351,
You can look and actually find the experts who disagree with the "consensus" on man made global warming, but be prepared. Your experts will be deemed big oil corporate shills, "only" meteorologists or hacks, and the "consensus" will be used against you as if you are a vampire and it is a crucifix. You could point out the e-mails discovered in Climategate, the fact that the IPCC report from the U.N. was put together by scientists who are making fortunes off of global warming...climate change, and that the e-mails show they destroyed data, tried to have scientists who questioned their "facts" banned from peer reviewed scientific journals, threatened to get the editors of those journals replaced if they allowed "deniers" into their journals, and obstructed the quest for actual scientific inquiry. Keep in mind that "global climate change" is happening the way that there wasn't anything faster than the speed of light...until just a few weeks ago when something may have been found that was faster than the speed of light.
While you may simply want to examine what scientists who say it either isn't happening or that man has no part in it, that is heresy, and will not be condoned. You will simply be deemed not smart enough, or a political extremist, and your opinions will be discounted.
Be prepared, and step boldly forth.
And shame on you for not wanting some politician to take your money away from you to save the world...of course they will also necessarily have to give a little to their friends and relatives. But you can't put a price on saving the world can you?
You can look and actually find the experts who disagree with the "consensus" on man made global warming, but be prepared. Your experts will be deemed big oil corporate shills, "only" meteorologists or hacks, and the "consensus" will be used against you as if you are a vampire and it is a crucifix. You could point out the e-mails discovered in Climategate, the fact that the IPCC report from the U.N. was put together by scientists who are making fortunes off of global warming...climate change, and that the e-mails show they destroyed data, tried to have scientists who questioned their "facts" banned from peer reviewed scientific journals, threatened to get the editors of those journals replaced if they allowed "deniers" into their journals, and obstructed the quest for actual scientific inquiry. Keep in mind that "global climate change" is happening the way that there wasn't anything faster than the speed of light...until just a few weeks ago when something may have been found that was faster than the speed of light.
While you may simply want to examine what scientists who say it either isn't happening or that man has no part in it, that is heresy, and will not be condoned. You will simply be deemed not smart enough, or a political extremist, and your opinions will be discounted.
Be prepared, and step boldly forth.
And shame on you for not wanting some politician to take your money away from you to save the world...of course they will also necessarily have to give a little to their friends and relatives. But you can't put a price on saving the world can you?
Why is it that the industrialized world must give up advancement and the developing world must enact population controls and not develop, and people think that this is alright. With all the greed, corruption, waste, fraud and abuse at all levels of government and within all government agencies, people buy hook line and sinker the notion that global warming is actually fact, without a hint of doubt about wether they are being played for fools by the people who stand to make vast sums of money off of man made global warming hysteria. At what point did these "scientists" and politicians become all knowing and infallible? To the point where people will be happy to down grade civilization based on these wizards of smart.
