Getting On The Mat

[MJS]

Now, anyone that teaches, obviously gets on the mat to do so. However, what I'm referring to is mixing it up with not only your students, but others as well. There are some clips floating around out in cyberspace of a 7th degree Kenpoist mixing it up with some people, who looking at them, appear to be at least half his age. Sparring, grappling and some good old contact, seem to be shown.

So my question is this: Is this something that you do? Is this something that you feel is important or are you happy to just teach and pass on your knowledge?

This thread is not intended to bash anyone or put anyone down, regardless of your answer. I'm just looking to see what everyones thoughts are. :ultracool

Mike

 

[Seabrook]

Now, anyone that teaches, obviously gets on the mat to do so. However, what I'm referring to is mixing it up with not only your students, but others as well. There are some clips floating around out in cyberspace of a 7th degree Kenpoist mixing it up with some people, who looking at them, appear to be at least half his age. Sparring, grappling and some good old contact, seem to be shown.

So my question is this: Is this something that you do? Is this something that you feel is important or are you happy to just teach and pass on your knowledge?

This thread is not intended to bash anyone or put anyone down, regardless of your answer. I'm just looking to see what everyones thoughts are. :ultracool

Mike

I fight continuous 2 times per week, and still compete in big tournaments as well. As a 6th degree in American Kenpo, I still put myself on the line time and time again, and regardless of outcome, will continue to do so in the future. Taking a good head or body shot from time to time keeps me humble and makes me realize that I will forever, regardless of rank, be both an instructor and a student.

There are many high-ranking black belts out there whom I have never seen nor heard of ever slap the gear on. They prefer to pulverize their students using choreographed self-defense techniques and to make people fall down with even touching them (LOL) so that students think their instructor is the next Bruce Lee, and a true Jedi Master.

That is one of the reasons why, like him or hate him, you've got to respect the 7th degree whose clips are floating around. In my opinion, it is people like him who are showing the world just how awesome American Kenpo is and how it can compete with any art out there. Too many MMA fighters think negatively about Kenpo, but haven't witnessed the skills of what someone highly trained in EPAK can do.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com
www.jamieseabrook.blogspot.com

 

[MJS]

I fight continuous 2 times per week, and still compete in big tournaments as well. As a 6th degree in American Kenpo, I still put myself on the line time and time again, and regardless of outcome, will continue to do so in the future. Taking a good head or body shot from time to time keeps me humble and makes me realize that I will forever, regardless of rank, be both an instructor and a student.

Its been a while since I've fought in a tournament, but I still gear up and spar! My inst. has us do this in our Kenpo class and my Arnis inst. has up gear up as well, not only empty hand, but we break out the sticks and stick spar. I've been rocked with some good punches and have had a few welts from the padded sticks, but hey, its the badge of hard work!!:ultracool

There are many high-ranking black belts out there whom I have never seen nor heard of ever slap the gear on. They prefer to pulverize their students using choreographed self-defense techniques and to make people fall down with even touching them (LOL) so that students think their instructor is the next Bruce Lee, and a true Jedi Master.

Well, this is what I've heard. This was one of the reasons of starting this thread...to hear how everyone trains.

That is one of the reasons why, like him or hate him, you've got to respect the 7th degree whose clips are floating around. In my opinion, it is people like him who are showing the world just how awesome American Kenpo is and how it can compete with any art out there. Too many MMA fighters think negatively about Kenpo, but haven't witnessed the skills of what someone highly trained in EPAK can do.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com
www.jamieseabrook.blogspot.com

Amen brother!! I was speaking to him yesterday and commented on the very same thing. Amazing the attitude change and respect that was shown.

Mike

 

[Carol]

I fight continuous 2 times per week, and still compete in big tournaments as well. As a 6th degree in American Kenpo, I still put myself on the line time and time again, and regardless of outcome, will continue to do so in the future. Taking a good head or body shot from time to time keeps me humble and makes me realize that I will forever, regardless of rank, be both an instructor and a student.

There are many high-ranking black belts out there whom I have never seen nor heard of ever slap the gear on. They prefer to pulverize their students using choreographed self-defense techniques and to make people fall down with even touching them (LOL) so that students think their instructor is the next Bruce Lee, and a true Jedi Master.

That is one of the reasons why, like him or hate him, you've got to respect the 7th degree whose clips are floating around. In my opinion, it is people like him who are showing the world just how awesome American Kenpo is and how it can compete with any art out there. Too many MMA fighters think negatively about Kenpo, but haven't witnessed the skills of what someone highly trained in EPAK can do.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com
www.jamieseabrook.blogspot.com

Mr. Seabrook you also have the advantage where you were about 30 years old when you earned your 6th degree. There is a big difference between a 30 year old 6th fighting young guys a few times a week and (say) a 55 year old 6th fighting young guys a few times a week.

I'm not saying that I disagree with anything that is done...I actually think its great that some of the younger BBs in Kenpo are getting out there and trying to fight in a way that appeals to the kids out there that are more influenced by Mr. Gracie than they are Mr. Miyagi. And yes, I do respect someone that not only puts on the gear and slaps leather with their students but also isn't afraid to put it on YouTube.

 

[MJS]

I believe the 7th in question, is 45. Jamie, correct me if I'm wrong on that. I believe the majority of attendants at this event were in their early to mid 20s.

 

[LawDog]

Once or twice a week I still put on the gear and go a few (non point) continuous type rounds with various Black Belts from my organization. I do not compete in open tournament anymore, at age 58 I am not quite fast enough for point sparring.
I know of many us older guys that still put on the pads get on the mat like,
Ken Melbourne(57), Scott Weyant(40), Shawn Gallagher(51), the list from the New England area is very long.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Do you guy's have a link to the clips?

Personally I like getting out there and roll, spar with anyone. It is lot's of fun and yet I can respect other people due to age or what not that prefer not to.

I will give you a for instance of why someone may choose not to. I had a stint for about six months when I choose not to spar with anyone. (a long time ago) In IRT everything is full contact when sparring and the padding is very minimum. (less padding than a ufc glove) Over the course of two months when training with some great IRT and Non IRT pracititioners I either broke (several) or watched about 7 noses being broken and a couple of arms being wrenched pretty hard and a couple of bad knee bars. (fortunately no one was seriously hurt

) So I stepped back and took a break. I reevaluated the situation and after talking with all of my seniors we introduced face shields to eliminate this possibility in the future while stand up sparring. When transitioning to grappling you can keep the head gear on or shuck it off. (your choice) Sometimes people make choices to spar or not to based on experiences. Myself I prefer to get out there and test what I do and yet I do not test myself against people that are not capable of mixing it up with me. Just my take.

I would be interested to see some of the links of the Kenpo 7th Dan!

 

[LawDog]

I agree with Mr Vancise in many areas.
Interesting fact, in todays society most dojo related law suit's are over facial injuries. This came straight from my schools insurance company.

 

[Seabrook]

Mr. Seabrook you also have the advantage where you were about 30 years old when you earned your 6th degree. There is a big difference between a 30 year old 6th fighting young guys a few times a week and (say) a 55 year old 6th fighting young guys a few times a week.

I'm not saying that I disagree with anything that is done...I actually think its great that some of the younger BBs in Kenpo are getting out there and trying to fight in a way that appeals to the kids out there that are more influenced by Mr. Gracie than they are Mr. Miyagi. And yes, I do respect someone that not only puts on the gear and slaps leather with their students but also isn't afraid to put it on YouTube.

I concur with what you are saying, but not completely. Age is a factor but it is a lot more of a factor if you make it one. Check out this link of my former Kung Fu instructor, Master Paul Chau. He is a 9th degree black belt and has been training in the martial arts for 47 years. He fights full-contact at least every other day with black belts in their 20s and 30s and has little difficulty wearing them down.

http://northernblackdragon.com

Here is a youtube link for him if you would like to see how he moves:

 

[Seabrook]

I believe the 7th in question, is 45. Jamie, correct me if I'm wrong on that. I believe the majority of attendants at this event were in their early to mid 20s.

Well I wasn't at the event, but you are probably correct.

I fought Clyde in the fall of 2005 and we fought continuous for about 30-45 minutes without a break. At the end of the fight, I was the one who stopped - he just kept going.

I did just finish a 10 hr drive to get to the camp, so I was admittedly, exhausted before I even started. But I am not making any excuses, and look forward to the time when him and I can spar again.

Why turn down an opportunity to fight someone and better your skills in the process?

As I have said many times, he is a fighting warrior, plain and simple.

 

[Seabrook]

I would be interested to see some of the links of the Kenpo 7th Dan!

Clips really don't speak to how he fights - that is why its hard to get a sense of what is really going on unless you there.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Clips really don't speak to how he fights - that is why its hard to get a sense of what is really going on unless you there.

Clips never tell the total tale!

However they sometimes help to get a point across. I have seen Clyde move and he looks like he can take care of himself quite well!

 

[Carol]

I concur with what you are saying, but not completely. Age is a factor but it is a lot more of a factor if you make it one. Check out this link of my former Kung Fu instructor, Master Paul Chau. He is a 9th degree black belt and has been training in the martial arts for 47 years. He fights full-contact at least every other day with black belts in their 20s and 30s and has little difficulty wearing them down.

http://northernblackdragon.com

Here is a youtube link for him if you would like to see how he moves:

Cool stuff! Thanks so much for sharing that!

I'm not personally suggesting age should be made a factor ...but...aside from the natural aging process, stuff happens as you get older. Sometimes its a result of lifestyle...my former Kenpo instructor dislocated his arm in a winter sports accident and was hurt so badly the docs thought that he would never regain the use of it. He regained a lot back but he never got full use back. Sometimes its just the way life happens. My school is donating space for a seminar...100% of the procedes are going to a local MAist with MS. I'd like to think that the MAist will still have something to contribute even if he gets to the point where they can't roll anymore. But for those that can and do...big props to them.

 

[kidswarrior]

Mr. Seabrook you also have the advantage where you were about 30 years old when you earned your 6th degree. There is a big difference between a 30 year old 6th fighting young guys a few times a week and (say) a 55 year old 6th fighting young guys a few times a week.

Preach it, Carol! Let's hear it for the old warriors who've seen our battles, and even our wars.

I respect the guys who still have tendons and ligaments with good elasticity, and enough cartilage that the top half of their legs (bones) don't sit directly on the bottom half. But it's been awhile since I was one. And I sure ain't gonna be one again. That's OK with me as long as I don't get criticized for living a long time and having some mileage on the old Bod (the odometer has turned over more than once ). Now if it comes to the real deal, the 15-30 second street survival situation, then I'm down for what has to be done. But as a regular sporting activity...:shock:

So, thanks Carol. And peace to all aging warriors and all who respect us.

 

[KenpoGunz]

So my question is this: Is this something that you do? Is this something that you feel is important or are you happy to just teach and pass on your knowledge?

Yes it is something that I do. I feel it is important. I am also happy to teach and pass on my knowledge.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Now, anyone that teaches, obviously gets on the mat to do so. However, what I'm referring to is mixing it up with not only your students, but others as well. There are some clips floating around out in cyberspace of a 7th degree Kenpoist mixing it up with some people, who looking at them, appear to be at least half his age. Sparring, grappling and some good old contact, seem to be shown.

So my question is this: Is this something that you do? Is this something that you feel is important or are you happy to just teach and pass on your knowledge?

This thread is not intended to bash anyone or put anyone down, regardless of your answer. I'm just looking to see what everyones thoughts are. :ultracool

Mike

I'm still on the mend from a car wreck in Sept. 06, and have to take it super-easy. Prior to the wreck, I did my front shrugs with 3 plates on each side of a Smith machine; now, with nerve damage to my neck, I do them in rehab with 4 lb. aerobic dumbells. Pretty demeaning when I compare myslef now to where I was.

Before that, I still avoided sparring hard-core. Only in my early 40's, I'm already courting a high-mileage string of injuries. I played hard when I was younger, and now wear the effects of that in my bones. I will (after rehab and mending) get on the mat to roll. I will do heavy-bag work, drills, light sparring. I'll even do continuous with light head contact, heavy body contact, competitive throwing, all the way through submission. But my days of having something to prove to anybody about anything are done; I've had my wins, losses, and more MMA-type mixers and challenge matches in boxing gyms and parking lots than I care to count. Not to mention the many, many altercations I got into while bouncing my way through college (and since, due to some anger management concerns).

I'll roll to keep limber and in better shape, but it'll be in what they used to call "play ball" mode, where you wrassle up to a submission, then release into continuous grappling; this saves the injuries that come from strong-arming out of locks and chokes, while allowing you to work position, perception, technique and timing. Stand-up...I'm not down with getting my melon rocked anymore. My guys and I used to go at it hard enough, we'd bust up each others noses, teeth and jaws, and give each other whiplash with hard-assed head shots several times a night, several nights a week. We've all had our septoplasty's and rhinoplasty's, have careers in the public, and bills to pay; the discs in my neck have finally caught up with the crapped out discs in my back, and my cervical x-rays look like they belong to a man in his 70's to 80's..arthritis from repeated training and work traumas.

I feel an obligation to myself to keep flexible enough and strong enough to take care of business when business needs to be taken care of. I'm at my weakest now...skinny little arms, no meat on my legs, chest sunken like a skinny teen...and I know I won't be happy until I've gotten some beef back on ze bones, and some snap back in ze blows. I also feel an obligation to future students to be active enough to get on the mat with them, and experientially ensure they have it right...and the only way to do that is to train with them, in contact.

However, it has become necessary at this point in my life to temper machismo with discretion; my measure of masculinity has switched from being able to exchange poundings with my sparring partners, to being able to make enough money to get out of debt, help take care of my parents when that day comes, and plan for retirement.

My input, for what it's worth.

Best Regards,

Dr. Dave

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

I concur with what you are saying, but not completely. Age is a factor but it is a lot more of a factor if you make it one. Check out this link of my former Kung Fu instructor, Master Paul Chau. He is a 9th degree black belt and has been training in the martial arts for 47 years. He fights full-contact at least every other day with black belts in their 20s and 30s and has little difficulty wearing them down.

http://northernblackdragon.com

Here is a youtube link for him if you would like to see how he moves:

Hey Jamie did this same Master grapple? I think I remember seeing a youtube clip of him rolling with various people and submitting them all.

Nevermind In the middle of typing this I found it.

Awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=pcbd

 

[kidswarrior]

I'm not personally suggesting age should be made a factor ...but...aside from the natural aging process, stuff happens as you get older. Sometimes its a result of lifestyle.... Sometimes its just the way life happens.... I'd like to think that the MAist will still have something to contribute even if he gets to the point where they can't roll anymore. But for those that can and do...big props to them.

Here, here. I'm younger (slightly) than the oldest active regular fighters mentioned in this thread. Yet, I don't fight regularly. Without comparing all the different events of my life with theirs, it's hard to say what kind of toll those years and decades might have taken on each individual, or whether the toll is comparable.

I'm happy to have what I do, and understand some of why I don't have other things. That's life. But to compare people in sweeping generalities--like one 55 year old with another--is counterproductive for me. So I'm with Carol. Age may not be a factor at all in determining how long one can mix it up on the mat. Kudos to those who have been blessed with longevity in their active practices. For others, life may have forced us to pace ourselves.

And by the way, in my work I have to be ready to fight at any time--no mats, no tapping out, lots of hard objects like chairs and tables, or streets and alleys, to fall into, or worry about one's opponent hitting their head on, makeshift weapons popping out of nowhere. So another aspect to this whole discussion is, for me fighting stopped being a sport a while back. Don't have any energy or desire left to pursue it in my off time. But that's just me.

 

[kidswarrior]

I'm still on the mend from a car wreck in Sept. 06, and have to take it super-easy. Prior to the wreck, I did my front shrugs with 3 plates on each side of a Smith machine; now, with nerve damage to my neck, I do them in rehab with 4 lb. aerobic dumbells. Pretty demeaning when I compare myslef now to where I was.

Before that, I still avoided sparring hard-core. Only in my early 40's, I'm already courting a high-mileage string of injuries. I played hard when I was younger, and now wear the effects of that in my bones. I will (after rehab and mending) get on the mat to roll. I will do heavy-bag work, drills, light sparring. I'll even do continuous with light head contact, heavy body contact, competitive throwing, all the way through submission. But my days of having something to prove to anybody about anything are done; I've had my wins, losses, and more MMA-type mixers and challenge matches in boxing gyms and parking lots than I care to count. Not to mention the many, many altercations I got into while bouncing my way through college (and since, due to some anger management concerns).

I'll roll to keep limber and in better shape, but it'll be in what they used to call "play ball" mode, where you wrassle up to a submission, then release into continuous grappling; this saves the injuries that come from strong-arming out of locks and chokes, while allowing you to work position, perception, technique and timing. Stand-up...I'm not down with getting my melon rocked anymore. My guys and I used to go at it hard enough, we'd bust up each others noses, teeth and jaws, and give each other whiplash with hard-assed head shots several times a night, several nights a week. We've all had our septoplasty's and rhinoplasty's, have careers in the public, and bills to pay; the discs in my neck have finally caught up with the crapped out discs in my back, and my cervical x-rays look like they belong to a man in his 70's to 80's..arthritis from repeated training and work traumas.

I feel an obligation to myself to keep flexible enough and strong enough to take care of business when business needs to be taken care of. I'm at my weakest now...skinny little arms, no meat on my legs, chest sunken like a skinny teen...and I know I won't be happy until I've gotten some beef back on ze bones, and some snap back in ze blows. I also feel an obligation to future students to be active enough to get on the mat with them, and experientially ensure they have it right...and the only way to do that is to train with them, in contact.

However, it has become necessary at this point in my life to temper machismo with discretion; my measure of masculinity has switched from being able to exchange poundings with my sparring partners, to being able to make enough money to get out of debt, help take care of my parents when that day comes, and plan for retirement.

My input, for what it's worth.

Best Regards,

Dr. Dave

Hey Dr. Dave, I hear you Bro'. Heal up and know you're not alone. BTW, Dr. Yang's book on Chinese and western arthritis relief (simple exercises, really) has helped me immensely. Really takes the pain away. Let me know if you're interested and want to locate it.

 

[LawDog]

In a previous post I listed some of the older guys who still put on the pads and step onto the mat. I am going to correct a mistake that I made, I left out a very dedicated group of martial artists, The Ladies.
These Ladies still put on their pads and get on the mat for non point continuous sparring. Here are a few,
Linda Kravitz(57), Peg Mullen(63), Jan Cunningham(54), Deb D'Antuno(49), Darleen Weyant(very classified), Carol Pilkington(44) etc. The list of woman from the North East is very long.
Please note that this group fights co-ed, they stand right across from us guys. The women are just as tough as the guys. Hats off to them.:ultracool