Getting Belts

[chrismay101]

Are there reasons why people don't grade in there martial art?

are gradings important?

are they needed?



I think gradings are important they keep you fixed on a goal they give you a rough idea at a level you have reached.
But it shouldn't be Black belt , Black belt must get to black belt I think it should be one step at a time. set goals that can be done say in a year.

I know I'm going to get replys from people saying things like - its the martial art that is important not getting a belt! blah blah blah.
Yes I know the art is the important bit, but why not grade and get a belt I think it give you something more to be proud of! "yes I have been doing this for years and im a (what ever) Belt!"

Think happy thoughts!

 

[bluekey88]

Are there reasons why people don't grade in there martial art?

are gradings important?

are they needed?



I think gradings are important they keep you fixed on a goal they give you a rough idea at a level you have reached.
But it shouldn't be Black belt , Black belt must get to black belt I think it should be one step at a time. set goals that can be done say in a year.

I know I'm going to get replys from people saying things like - its the martial art that is important not getting a belt! blah blah blah.
Yes I know the art is the important bit, but why not grade and get a belt I think it give you something more to be proud of! "yes I have been doing this for years and im a (what ever) Belt!"

Think happy thoughts!

Really, it all depends. If you train in a system that uses gradings and belts...then it"s pretty important (especially early on) to grade and recieve belts. It makes you part of the community. I know at my TKD school of a number of people who train and don't grade anymore...they are all all 1dt dan and higher.

If you train in a system that does not use grading, well, then they aren't important. In that case, I garauntee that there is some other way for everyone to measure progress and standings...perhaps hours of class attendance, win-loss record, etc. Then, you conform to whatever the system (be it overt or covert).

In the end, you do what the commnity expects of you to do in order to fit in.

Peace,
Erik

 

[chrismay101]

Good post!

the only problem I can think of is.
Getting a black Belt doesn't mean your great at sparring it (in my opinion) means that you have the required skills for that level. not maybe the ability to use them! because its quite possible for a colour belt to beat a black!

 

[still learning]

Hello, Grading by color belts started from JUDO. before than is was? just white than black. Teachers knew their students very well.

Is it important? For some schools/students IT IS IMPORTANT. Is it worth anything today? A little...there is so many Black belts...that is NOT worth as much as it did years ago.

Like a high school or college degree? it has many levels or grades earn.
to pass school/college you just need a C grade, same with Black belts.

There are many Black belts who falls in the C grade, a few in the A-plus grade. Just look at your black belts in school.

There is NO standard rules for giving ranks or black belts. Every school sets there own standards, some it takes one year,others 7 years to earn a black belt.

Want a black belt? send $50,000.00 and I will send you one, Aloha

 

[MJS]

Are there reasons why people don't grade in there martial art?

are gradings important?

are they needed?



I think gradings are important they keep you fixed on a goal they give you a rough idea at a level you have reached.
But it shouldn't be Black belt , Black belt must get to black belt I think it should be one step at a time. set goals that can be done say in a year.

I know I'm going to get replys from people saying things like - its the martial art that is important not getting a belt! blah blah blah.
Yes I know the art is the important bit, but why not grade and get a belt I think it give you something more to be proud of! "yes I have been doing this for years and im a (what ever) Belt!"

Think happy thoughts!

To answer the above questions, I'd say no to both and here is why. Some may look at receiving a belt as motivation. But is it really motivation? Does that person rely on that belt to motivate them or are they motivated by training hard, improving their skill and being able to apply something? My base art is Kenpo. I'm ranked in that art. I crosstrain in Modern Arnis. I'm ranked in that, although we do not wear belts until Black. I crosstrain in BJJ. I am not ranked in that, yet I have covered all the requirements to Blue and some in the Purple material. I have the chance to test, but choose not to. No particular reason.

I love to train. What motivates me is that I love the arts, and always look forward to learning something, regardless of if its something new or just making something old better. I'm not a rank chaser. When it happens it happens, plain and simple. The belt is not going to defend me in a situation, its the hard work, time and effor that I put in that will matter.

Mike

 

[chrismay101]

Thanks so far for the replys. I'm glad so far no one has had to have a big rant.

Was the judo guy who came up with the belt system called Kano or something like that?

do you not care about getting a grade in BJJ (Brazilian Jujitsu) because you already have one from another art?

 

[tellner]

Bluekey nailed it. The only thing I can add is an observation about how and why the whole belt thing started.

Kano-sensei was an innovator. He had come up through the traditional menkyo system where only teaching certificates were awarded. There were no student ranks and no special badges. He awarded the first dan rankings to two of his students whose names escape me right now. He instituted student grades although originally there was no special external sign between the various kyu grades.

As near as I can tell the colored belts beyond white, brown and black started in France around the time that Judo was getting big and spread around. You could assume that anyone with a dan ranking had a certain degree of skill and understanding. If you had a small group you pretty much knew where everyone was at. But if you were going to a strange club you needed a rough guide to where people's development was at. Look at the waist. Hope you're not color blind. You know that the guy is at least thus and such but isn't up to so and so.

Beyond that and their social functions what's the point? What's the utility? If it takes a two buck piece of cloth to motivate you something is wrong.

All that stuff with numbers of stripes and up to two dozen sub-gradings between beginner and instructor? At best it's a useful thing reduced ad absurdem. At worst it's a scam for squeezing money out of people and making them feel special because of it.

 

[sholo86]

Almost all martial arts have a grading system, but NOT all uses the belt ranking system. This is true with Teoul Moon Kung Fu. The only belt we get is the blackbelt. Our grading system is based on skill levels students have to attain in order to advance.

Now, some of our schools in the U.S. started to use colored sashes with skill levels. This came about because of feedbacks from students (and their parents). I do agree on using sashes/belts as a motivational tool, especially to the younger ones. Kids are visual creatures and they need to see what they have to train hard for.

 

[Grenadier]

Here are my two copper coins on this matter:

Giving out rank belts is materialistic, of course. However, it's not necessarily a bad thing. Some people are going to need a bit of encouragement to get them along the way.

While they may not be as hard core as your more dedicated students, at least you give them a chance to become one of the best, if they stick with the training. In the end, maybe the belt system does help get more people to that upper echelon.

 

[tradrockrat]

Good post!

the only problem I can think of is.
Getting a black Belt doesn't mean your great at sparring it (in my opinion) means that you have the required skills for that level. not maybe the ability to use them! because its quite possible for a colour belt to beat a black!

a very good point, and one that can be addressed if sparing is a required part of the curriculum. If you need to show a proficiency in sparing commensurate witht eh belt, then you know that at least meet the "minimum" level of proficiency required at a specific belt.

That doesn't mean a really good lesser belt can't win, but that's life. Some will always be better than others.

As for belts - I hate 'em, but I believe thay are neccessary. We only had 4 belts, but you were expected to have a year or so in at each belt. The belts were a good goal to have and and a good motivator to train, but I lost a friend because of his jealousy when I achieved green belt before him, and when I progressed to brown he dropped out and went to another instructor that wasn't as demanding as mine. Once I reached black, he was still a green, and his teacher levied a complaint against me for progressing from green to black within a year (only 6 months as a brown belt). Dr. Gyi nixed it and told them to deal with it, but I've never liked belts since then and prefer to avoid them if at all possible. But I remember how important they were to me in the beginning as a goal and motivator.

 

[Kacey]

But I remember how important they were to me in the beginning as a goal and motivator.

The above is, I think, the key. For myself, rank is no longer a significant motivating factor; my sahbum tells me when I'm testing, and that's it. Having a belt to work for at the early stages of practicing a martial art helps students to set realistic short- and long-term goals, while providing an indication of progress.

 

[jks9199]

Whether and how important ranking is depends on the student and the system.

I've personally been "stagnant" at 2nd level black for nearly 10 years; for personal reasons, I haven't chosen to test for advancement. Maybe I will this year... Or next year. My instructor never pushed the belts; in fact, our promotions were often keyed to distributing students across our national competition. I may have been one of the longest brown belt holders around... Don't know. I had plenty of folks ask me when I was going to test -- and my answer was always "When he says I should" as I pointed at my instructor.

And... my instructor used to be given a black belt for a competition, only to return it to his teacher afterwards!

We make very few distinctions in lessons based on rank; instead, we expect each student to learn at their own level.

There are people who need lots of tests to convince themselves that they are progressing. They need the belts and external motivators. Hopefully, a good instructor will help them learn to be internally motivated -- but that may never happen. For them, belts are an important thing. For those of us not motivated by external awards, they can actually be a distraction.

 

[Steel Tiger]

The above is, I think, the key. For myself, rank is no longer a significant motivating factor; my sahbum tells me when I'm testing, and that's it. Having a belt to work for at the early stages of practicing a martial art helps students to set realistic short- and long-term goals, while providing an indication of progress.

Isn't it interesting how many of us, once we have achieved a certain rank, no longer consider rank to be a motivating factor? Is it because we have reached the pinnacle of our various arts? No, most of us are not at the very top. Is it because we think we have learned all we can possibly learn? Very unlikely. Is it because we realise that rank is merely an indication of our current progress? Its a possibility. If you train and focus on what is being taught rank will naturally flow from your endeavour.

As Kacey said when she is ready to test her sahbum tells her so. The motivation has been internalised and become a private thing. But for a new or junior student, the motivation comes from concepts like, "To learn that technique I need to be that rank, but to get there I need to get through these other three ranks."

I think that belts and rank are necessary motivational tools. Though, having said that, I don't require my students to wear their sashes when we train. I wear mine so that anyone coming to the class will know who I am. The sashes exist, they are awarded for achieving competence with a given set of techniques, but they are not required as part of the training uniform.

 

[redfang]

Everyone is different. For some belts are important, for others they mean nothing. I'm about 80/20 in favor of them not meaning anything. I only trained at one school where belts were earned. There was some small satisfaction in each level earned, but it was never that important to me. My wife was more belt motivated. For her, it was all about working to the great, awe-inspiring black belt.

Even at that school, we rarely wore gis while training and thus rarely wore belts. Inclusion was gained just by being there on a regular basis, training.

One problem of earning belts is the temptation to learn what u need to progress only. If u train just to train, then there should be quality to everything that you do.

 

[Shaderon]

I think Steel Tiger has an interesting point, it seems that the lower you are, the more important rank is to you.

I was going to say that I don't see the belt as a motivation, but that's not quite right. I don't see it as a motivation to move forwards, that is in me as being competitive with myself, I'm always craving to move forwards. I see my belt as my motivation not to SLIP BACK. If I forget a pattern that I did for a grading 4 months ago, it doesn't get me down because I know that happens and I do know it. My belt tells me so. All I need is a little reminder and off I go.

The main reason I like belts, is the visible reminder of who's learned what, I know it doesn't mean ability, I know an 8th kup that's better than some black belts I've met. But it does mean that I know what questions I can ask people.

 

[MJS]

do you not care about getting a grade in BJJ (Brazilian Jujitsu) because you already have one from another art?

I have a 3rd degree black in Kenpo. I'm a 3rd Brown in Arnis. As for the BJJ, I devoted alot of class time to that. Unfortunately, due to RL changes, I havent been going nearly as much. This isn't to say that I've stopped grappling altogether, as many of the other inst. I work with have a grappling background, so I'm still actively doing it. For myself, if I'm going to be ranked in something, I want to make sure I've put in some solid training time. Its there for me if/when I decide to test.

Like I said, I'm more interested in training. I don't have a timetable of when to test. When it happens, it happens.

Mike

 

[morph4me]

It depends on the individual, some people need external motivation and recognition, others don't.

My motivation ifor training is learning new skills and keeping the ones I have honed. I don't need a belt to be proud of my accomplisments or to motivate myself.

I recieved my black belt in 1993 so I could work out in the Yudansha class, and I have practiced continually although I haven't tested since. Students who were junior to me now outrank me, their accomplisments don't detract from mine. Skill, or lack of it, is apparent regardless of the belt a person is wearing, and I can learn from everybody, regardless of rank.