Generations of disrespect...

[Tgace]

And what about Afghanistan, isnt that an honorable place to serve? Shouldnt protesters ask which country the soldier served in before they sling insults at him/her....what if they served in bolth places? What if they only served in Bosnia, Korea, Germany? Should everybody in uniform accept this type of treatment?

 

[loki09789]

I'm sure I could find some data fairly easily...

Anecdotally, I've watched recruiters flock to my school which serves primarily the poor and lower middle class. They regularly fill rooms by saying things like "Feel directionless? Feel like you aren't going anywhere in your life?"

I haven't heard of too many people being turned away because of lower scores on the ASVAB. Also, there is nothing wrong with doing your best to better yourself. Think about this question...if there were more options to better oneself, would the military have as many "new recruits?"

The aforementioned message, when offered on the East end of town at the high school that serves the upper crust, doesn't work too well. They'll be lucky to pull in one or two people. Smart recruiters change their message to one of "Duty and Honor."

Much like TGACE I would say that the cross section of servicemen I worked with voer 13 years was pretty broad. Kids from wealthy, middle and 'poor' families were about the same proportionately as the precentages present in the macroculture. The mililitary is the microcosm.

Your anecdotal evidence is flawed because you are focusing on observations in your school alone - just as I can only work from my direct experience. But, since I actually worked hand in hand with some of these folks on the job that came from a broader national pool, I think it might hold a little more substantiation.

I do agree that the likelyhood that more kids from poor neighborhoods might get targeted for the sales pitch, the question is how many actually sign?

How many can meet academic standards (and yes, they are inforced considering the amount of technology in the military now)?

How many of those approached have such an engrained mistrust of 'authority' and 'success' and even think that they are 'good enough' that there is no way that they would consider 'joining' anything, let alone the military? It is the equivalent of walking up to a 90 lbs weakling (mainly because he/she never really had the chance to be more) being approached to join the varsity football team.

 

[loki09789]

And what about Afghanistan, isnt that an honorable place to serve? Shouldnt protesters ask which country the soldier served in before they sling insults at him/her....what if they served in bolth places? What if they only served in Bosnia, Korea, Germany? Should everybody in uniform accept this type of treatment?

Unfortunately, as servicemembers, wearing the uniform means that you 'represent' something regardless of where you indivivually served...

it is ironic though that the 'every snowflake is special' mentallity of the anti-military/government...you name it - types that like to justify such actions are making generalized and bigotous assumptions about 'servicemen' or attacking that 'individual' becuase of what he/she 'represents' instead of taking the time to 'understand them and their culture' better...

which is exactly what many have said should be the way to 'properly' respond to a violent act done by these individuals. Why would that very desire for understanding not apply to a person that is not only a fellow AMERICAN, but a public servant?

 

[rmcrobertson]

If we're going to compare horrors amongst capitalism and commieism (a subject brought up because apparently all protesters are Communists...), we might want to take a good solid look at the minor little population decline among Native American populations in the century or so of European colonialism following Columbus' arrival. Looks to me like they don't matter because either a) it was our side doping it, or, b) it was a long time ago. Like the Crusades...

How many Vietnamese civilians died within living memory? How many SE Asians in countries we bombed, mined, and destabilized?

But more to the point, all these kids did was protest. Didn't shoot anybody, didn't hit anybody, didn't throw anything. Cheers and jeers was about it.

Run it by me again why exactly this was such a terrible thing that it forced comparasion to Stalin's Gulag?

 

[Tgace]

I don't think the problem lies with the recruiters themselves or even the Army, but society as a whole.

We continue to choose to engage in wars over specious causes that benefit only a limited segment of society, but the real anguish and burden of those wars is carried largely by people without any other options. As long as we, as people, accept this as the status quo, our military will be forced to function in this way.

Another example of capitalism at its finest.

The whole capitalism vs. ?? thing.......unless you want to continue making assumptions about my opinion on protest/protesters.....

 

[PeachMonkey]

The whole capitalism vs. ?? thing.......unless you want to continue making assumptions about my opinion on protest/protesters.....

The comparisons and attacks against the records of communist countries were your own.

My point was simply that the United States has a long history of military adventurism designed strictly to benefit a small group of capitalists. That fact has nothing to do with the actual merits of capitalism vs any other system -- one might argue that it's inevitable in a capitalist society, but I don't feel that it's necessarily so.

 

[loki09789]

The comparisons and attacks against the records of communist countries were your own.

My point was simply that the United States has a long history of military adventurism designed strictly to benefit a small group of capitalists.....

And since we are all typing and applying technologies that are built on sciences and materials that came directly from those "military adventurisms" as you put it, to include some petroleum based materials that are essential to the quality of life we live today....I can really see how 'only a small group of capitalists' have benefitted.

I think the point here is that these types of protests don't do much for the 'cause of peace' or at least 'anti war' or what ever these mobs thought would be a justifiable reason to keep a public servant from doing his job.

Do we storm into DuPont now and throw eggs at the employees in the parking lot? No, if you have an issue with DuPont and chemical production/industrial waste you take it to the decision makers, not the worker bees/

 

[Flatlander]

Do we storm into DuPont now and throw eggs at the employees in the parking lot? No, if you have an issue with DuPont and chemical production/industrial waste you take it to the decision makers, not the worker bees/

I don't know if I necessarily agree with this. Part of the effect of protest is to bring more attention to your issue; going a bit over the top can sometimes be a beneficial thing. Refer to Tiananmen Square. Of course, these things must be tempered with a respect for the rights of others, however, do not confuse the objectives of protesters with those of government lobbyists.

I am not condoning the methods of the particular protest under debate here. What I will say, though, is that had these protesters instead chosen to take their issue to the White House, the likelyhood of being given an audience with the President would have been rather slim, wouldn't you say?

 

[rmcrobertson]

Good to know that what we did to, say, Vietnam and Chile is perfectly OK because, well, we all have plastic wrap now.

 

[Flatlander]

Mod Note:

Discussion of American militarism split off to its own thread.

 

[loki09789]

Good to know that what we did to, say, Vietnam and Chile is perfectly OK because, well, we all have plastic wrap now.

Oversimplify the issue all you want but the computers we are working on, the medical procedures that have improved the level of trauma from surgery/prolonged lives, the simple math of the amount of fuel burned to transport lighter products because of plastic over metal or wood parts has drastically improved our lives overall.

I am not saying that it is a 'valid reason to go to war' so that we can test the limits of new materials/technologies. I AM saying that as a result of the urgency and demand for being competitively superior to the enemy, we have made some discoveries that may not have been made otherwise.