ROFLMAO:roflmao:
Gays in the MA's
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Now, there are a few things that can be a bit different.
My wife's old JKD teacher was doing a self defense seminar for a gay and lesbian campus group at UMinn. One technique involved grabbing a guy by the groin. He said "Now, guys will move back when you do this." Sure enough, the demo-dummy moved forward with a little shimmy.
The other involved a cop teaching MA/SD to a similar organization in Alaska. He said "I will now teach you a technique which will bring a 200 pound man to his knees" in his best "You are here to receive a unit of instruction" manner. A voice from the back of the room responded "Oh, Baby!"
Both to riotous laughter.
My wife's old JKD teacher was doing a self defense seminar for a gay and lesbian campus group at UMinn. One technique involved grabbing a guy by the groin. He said "Now, guys will move back when you do this." Sure enough, the demo-dummy moved forward with a little shimmy.
The other involved a cop teaching MA/SD to a similar organization in Alaska. He said "I will now teach you a technique which will bring a 200 pound man to his knees" in his best "You are here to receive a unit of instruction" manner. A voice from the back of the room responded "Oh, Baby!"
Both to riotous laughter.
People need to keep their sexual urges and their orientation to themselves. I don't care what your preferences are, if it becomes a problem in class, then they are going to have to leave. It does not matter who they are openly going after. We are a martial arts school, not a dating serrvice. As long as they pay their dues, train hard, and learn, then I don't care what they do away from my school.
My partner and I (read lesbians) started Combat Hapkido roughly 5 weeks ago and are only 2 of 3 women in the class. We've been asked about our relationship (we wear wedding rings and were married in MA. legally in 2005). We are open about things ... meaning honest and respectful ... if people ask. We never push ourselves our our way of living on anyone. We just are.
My partner is very small and feminine and I look kind of like a Soccer Mom (so I have been told). We are not the stereotypical "butch" couple that you might have in your mind that might take a Combat Hapkido MA.
We live life, we fight hard. We are respectful and it really does not matter to us our our classmates. For some of the ground survival training we naturally work together because of gender. It would be that way in any Dojang.
Just my 2 cents. It really does not matter. Respect is always the key issue. Just be.
My partner is very small and feminine and I look kind of like a Soccer Mom (so I have been told). We are not the stereotypical "butch" couple that you might have in your mind that might take a Combat Hapkido MA.
We live life, we fight hard. We are respectful and it really does not matter to us our our classmates. For some of the ground survival training we naturally work together because of gender. It would be that way in any Dojang.
Just my 2 cents. It really does not matter. Respect is always the key issue. Just be.
OP
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No Drac, it's an importantant question. If you haven't noticed that there's still a lot of homophobic attitudes out there you've got your eyes shut. But from what's been posted here so far, it seems that most people are pretty fair minded. That's pretty surprising in a country that won't let gays serve in the military and where a lot of folks want a constitutional ammendment to prevent gay marriage or legal partnerships. You know I started this thread after listening to some rude jokes by some fellow martial arts practitioners. All of these individuals consider themselves "tolerant", but as long as we think that sexist, racist and anti-gay jokes are funny, we have some questions to ask... like how tolerant are we, really?
Actually you need to be practicing with men, you aren't likely to attacked and taken to the ground by a female, and working with bigger and stronger partners can only improve your odds should that rare occurence happen.
Lamont
This is an important point. I can understand pairing according to rank, but even then, you sometimes should train with partners above and below your level. If your instructor doesn't EVER pair you with someone else to train with, you're losing out. I understand it's only been 5 weeks since you started, but keep it in mind as time goes on and you progress. It's one thing to have a regular training partner, it's another to have only ONE training partner.
My eyes are NOT shut...So how many hate crimes against gays have you responded to in the last year??? I've lost count...I believe that we will NEVER be rid of of the homophobic attitudes...
True instructors and MA's don't give a rats butt about someones sexual orientation as long as it dosn't interupt the class
That 'a handfull of fearfull people in high places in our goverment..
As long as YOU know in your heart that you are tolerent and accept students no matter what their orientation ignore those comments...
newGuy12
Master of Arts
I have to laugh when I read this, because I have met Teachers with this attitude with a vengence -- they will teach anyone, no concern over if they have the moral standing to be their student, if they are a "bad kid", no problem. The only thing is that the student has to be a "Righteous Student", they have to not give up.
Haha -- You want to learn to kick and punch, we shall see if you do. We shall let the makiwara decide if you want to learn!!!
Be mindful that I have been freaking sick for 2 freaking weeks plus change, this freaking disease keeps moving around my body and I can't kick it, so my mind is not completely on track. But, many of you know this way of thinking. To me it is quite correct, not just concerning gay and lesbian students, but anyone.
Now, consider the difference between the Martial Arts School and any other institution. Here, we may very well have a Teacher who wants to endow SOMEONE with this skill, in order to see it manifest. It is prideful. I am not a teacher, but I myself have taken great pride in watching fellow students gain skill, sometimes to my great surprise. This is why I would be very surprised if a "Righteous Student" (for lack of better words) would be turned away.
That is, the students who are not cry-babies. They do not complain or like weakness, but will consistently strive to keep up and gain power. Everyone wishes to see them continue, and become black belt students someday, do they not? It is like seeing a beautiful tree grow. I am sure that many of you know what I am talking about.
As for the others, who only THINK they wish to learn this, but do not really wish to pay the price, once the time comes to sweat and disregard the bruises... well, they can be here or go away, it is not near as much of a loss.
The bottom line is that whoever has the mettle to not shy away from any harsh practice, they will be the favoured students of the teacher, period. This is the important thing with this Martial Art practice.
I can only agree to me it does not and will not matter each person needs to live there lifes in the manner they choose to. I will basically teach anybody and notice it says almost anybody, I.E. Sex offander and rappist and a few other crimes that may occur these types I will not train period.
And yes I tell all adult I run a background check to make sure the ones that say no do not get to train inside my school the others are welcome if they clear a check.
I would imagine gays in the martial arts are like gays in professional sports: more so than you realize and you'd be surprised to know who they are.
But given the macho attitudes of many martial artists, not surprising they don't come out more. Look how long it took for women to be accepted.
Granted, they would not be physically helpless, but it's the doubtless social stigma that they would be afraid of. Who cares if you can beat the guy in sparring if he considers you less than human because of your orientation? That would be the greater pain.
But given the macho attitudes of many martial artists, not surprising they don't come out more. Look how long it took for women to be accepted.
Granted, they would not be physically helpless, but it's the doubtless social stigma that they would be afraid of. Who cares if you can beat the guy in sparring if he considers you less than human because of your orientation? That would be the greater pain.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
If someone is a bully or unnecessarily violent in an MA then I have a real problem and likely I would not teach them.
But someone that is gay.... I don't freakin care...shut up and train. OR to quote my last xingyi sifu when a student brought up something that had absolutly NO bearing on the class at all "I don't care... this is Xingyi now shut up and stand in santi" It was not a sexual orientation comment but it was equally as irrelevant to Xingyiquan so why talk about it at all. I am there to train and it is not social hour.
If someone is making jokes about it and you don't like it...TELL them to stop, tell them it is not appreciated, tell them this is not the place for it, etc. You want to effect prejudice stand up to those being prejudice because posting about it does little to change them, that is if they can be changed at all. Posting on MT about it does little to change the offender’s attitude unless of course they are posting on MT and even then it likely will make no difference since we are all living in the wonderful world wide web of anonymity.
As previously stated I do not care if a person is Gay, Lesbian, Bi or Heterosexual. IT has NOTHING to do with training an MA.
But someone that is gay.... I don't freakin care...shut up and train. OR to quote my last xingyi sifu when a student brought up something that had absolutly NO bearing on the class at all "I don't care... this is Xingyi now shut up and stand in santi" It was not a sexual orientation comment but it was equally as irrelevant to Xingyiquan so why talk about it at all. I am there to train and it is not social hour.
If someone is making jokes about it and you don't like it...TELL them to stop, tell them it is not appreciated, tell them this is not the place for it, etc. You want to effect prejudice stand up to those being prejudice because posting about it does little to change them, that is if they can be changed at all. Posting on MT about it does little to change the offender’s attitude unless of course they are posting on MT and even then it likely will make no difference since we are all living in the wonderful world wide web of anonymity.
As previously stated I do not care if a person is Gay, Lesbian, Bi or Heterosexual. IT has NOTHING to do with training an MA.
You laughed..I was not attempting to be funny, just making a point about acceptance..Gee I guess I should have said " I don't care if you TV, TG, TS or gay..If you want to learn and will put forth your best effort to do so then I will be happy to teach..Sexual preditors of ANY variety need not apply...
newGuy12
Master of Arts
I didn't mean to be a smart-alec. I don't run a school, and I have no concern over whether criminals learn these martial arts. If someone wishes to learn, in this day, they will learn. Though, I can understand why a Teacher would seek to discriminate, to ease their own mind.
I do guess that there is a difference between some schools that are run primarily to make a profit, and other schools that are not run PRIMARILY to make a profit (I'm not joking). In these "other" schools, anyone who will maintain the practice without giving up receives respect from the other students, do they not? There is a comraderie there that transcends MANY differences. For lack of other words, there is a "loving feeling" among that family, though they may be of quite different people.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
My Sanda Sifu will not teach anyone he does not know or trust because he is very concerned about teaching Sanda to someone who will use it just to hurt people. However it is not his business and even though I have tried to get him to open a school because in todays society he could make a lot of money teaching is, he will not teach it openly because as he said it is to easy to learn how to hurt someone with Sanda and he does not want to teach someone that just wants it to be tough or go out and hurt or bully others and if it were a business he would have to do allow anyone to learn in the US (in China things are very different) and he does not want that so no school and you know something, I agree with him on this 100%.
I know this has nothing to do with the OP, my apologies :asian:, but it was relevant to your post I felt.
Kingindian
Blue Belt
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i think thats ok for Gay to joined or learn martial arts..and im ok to train with Gays..
as long as they dont try to harm me
as long as they dont try to harm me
DArnold
Purple Belt
I didn't know gays could not serve in the military.
I must have missed that change.
I love sexist, racist, anti-gay, white, black, mexican, women, men, religious, moral, political.... jokes.
Tollerance has long been a guiese for acceptance, just as inaction is an action!
Because someone is not for what you are for, does not make them anti-anything or intollerant.
For example I can belive that the sexes are not equal, but that does not make me a sexist...
I find the whole offense-sensitivity and P.C. crap offending.
There would probably have been a very similiar answer from a class of straight women lol!
It's been that way since before WWI. The UCMJ makes homosexual acts (and analogous acts practiced between heterosexuals) illegal. Gays and lesbians have been subject to immediate dismissal and in some cases courts martial for being gay.
One of the reasons San Francisco became a center for gay people is that ban. During WWII many servicemen (mostly men) discharged for homosexuality returned to the US through the port of San Francisco and stayed there.
President Clinton tried to find a compromise with "Don't ask. Son't tell." It actually led to an increase in the numbers of gays and lesbians tossed out of the Service. Not surprisingly, during Vietnam and the current hose-out the number of soldiers involuntarily separated for homosexuality plummets. During peacetime they are purged because their existence is "harmful to good order and discipline".
That's because you're one of the ones on top.
Jokes? Yeah, I like some of them. But they have an effect, and it comes in below the critical facilities. The really nasty ones make a real and measurable difference in attitudes that is translated into actions.
I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out a way to do this less graphically. I just got off the phone with a fairly well-known Black writer and my (Black, Chinese, Muslim, published poet) wife to try and come up with a way that was less in-your-face but made the point anywhere near as effectively. They couldn't think of one either. So please bear with me. The next few paragraphs are nasty, but there's a very legitimate end to all of this:
"Whaddya call a thousand ******s swimming back to Africa with a kike under each arm? A good start!" used to be considered sidesplittingly funny. Now it's completely socially unacceptable, and thank G-d for that.
How far is that from the famous neo-Nazi poem that starts:
Note: The writer and the poet considered it one of the most compelling and well-constructed pieces of poetry they've seen in a while. The fact that it's well-done and effective doesn't make it better. It makes it worse
They're about half a step removed from what some of Portland's finest did some years back. They thought it was a great joke to leave rotting possums on the doorsteps of Black-owned restaurants. And that's all sorts of civil rights violations just waiting to happen the next time those cops interact with a Black person. It goes downhill from there.
A little while later a Black man who was a week away from entering the Police Academy was strangled to death by a Portland cop. The guy was an innocent bystander in a case where a (White) man robbed a 7-11. The cop came in and immediately attacked the Black guy and killed him. Part of his defense(!) was that Blacks are more susceptible to chokes and strangles than "normal people". Within days cops were wearing shirts showing an a dead man with exaggerated Black features and the caption "Don't choke 'em! Smoke 'em!"
The jokes and "pranks" helped make it acceptable to think of and treat anyone with dark skin as less than human. Anyone with more than three brain cells huddling together for warmth can see what follows. Yes, it's possible to go too far and become hypersensitive. But I'd rather err on the side of kindness and human consideration once in a while than tolerate that kind of dehumanizing crap and the very real injustice that comes with it.
One could write volumes about this for just about any group you care to think of - Women, Jews, Irishmen, Mexicans, Gypsies, Japanese, Poles and so on. In fact, people have. In every case degrading humor was one of the most common ways or reinforcing the hatred and keeping them in their place.
That sort of thing also makes it easier to keep people where they're "supposed" to be. If your fundamental attitude is that they aren't quite human or at least inherently a little inferior it makes injustice easy to overlook. They're where they are because they deserve to be. It's not my fault or the fault of anyone like me. So it's sure not my responsibility to do anything about it. If they were as good as me they wouldn't be there.
This is a little difficult for those who have been in the driver's seat to understand. If you're a straight White Protestant man there aren't that many jokes about what you are ethnically or religiously which cut you deeply, because humor hasn't been used on people like you that way so much. It's a joke. So what? When you don't have any reason to believe that you will be denied a job or place to live, charged more to buy a home, thrown out of a restaurant, raped or killed because of how you were born you just don't see it the same way as someone who has been.
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