Gaje, Inosanto, Presas, et al. (split from 6 Count de Cadena et al)

[Rocky]

Hey Paul

Actually Paul the GM Gaji thinking Remy was dead so he tried to cash in on his art is true, its in print I caught a lot of crap for posting this about 7 years ago on the Eskrima Digest. The fued however really wasn't all that bad. Partialy because in all honesty Remy had no fighters that wanted to take on the likes of Erwin Balarta, Tom Bisio, Top Dog, Pete Canzanetta, Dave Robinson, Greg Allan to name just a few of Gm Gaji's hard core full contact fighter.

Actually I was the one who closed the gap between Remy and Leo. Becuase I grew up in a Pekiti Tersia (Arnez as they called it back then) hot spot. I got to train with Erwin, and Roberto Ancong and those guys when I was just a kid. Actually Dominic Balarta and I were best friend when we were kids. Strange story I introduced him to his wife now we don't talk


Anyways, I use to pit Remy against Leo or who ever from the PT camp, I would learn something and then try it out on Remy, Remy would teach me how to counter it then I would go back to Leo or who ever and tell them Remy new how to counter it. Becuses I was on of maybe 2 or 3 Modern Arnis guys willing to fight with just the fencing mask and very little else, I was welcomed into the PT camp, this is why I get so iritated with the likes of Kelly and those guys who were never representing Modern Arnis in the fight game where things count, yet they think they got the art. Any ways as I got older the constant need to defend myself everytime I met a Pt guy or Latosa guy who didn't know me and when I mentioned I did Modern Arnis, they would just kinda roll their eyes and say oh yeah you're one of those guys, well it got old. Then when ever I tried to talk to Remy about the rep we had he would just tell me not to entertain those people and we would argue and yell back and forth. Anyways I ended up in a position much like GGM Bacon, where there was a bit of a problem with the off shoot Balintawak people and Doce Pares', GGM Bacons' students were always welcomed at the Doce pares' group, just as my students and I were welcomed in the Pt camp. In the last 7 or 8 years though the groups pretty much get along now. Most of the PT guys realize that GM Presas's agenda was to teach self defense first and foremost. Where GM Gaji's agenda was to teach stick fighting against other Eskrimadors.


As far as the Danny thing, I know I will probably get ripped on for this cause the Inosanto guys treat him like a God. But the main thing that pissed Remy off was he did a demo at I beleave the Garden in N.Y, his cousin John I think Gm Maranis (sp) and few others I beleave were there in 1976-78 or so. It was like one of those cultural festivals or something. Guro Inosanto, was in line to get Remys autograph, Remy talked to him and told him what a great opportunity he had being the guy to take over for Bruce, and that he should write a book about Filipino Arts. Well then because of some things that happened between them before Guro Dan wrote his book, he put every Filipino Master under the sun in the book except Remy, which was a real slap in the face to Remy. And on numerous occasions he took little pot shots at Modern Arnis thoughout the years in diferent interviews and what not.

In 1984 I attended one of Guro Dans seminars I approched him and told him GM Presas wished him well and gave him his best. And the man that so many worship and beleave he is at a different level, just looked at me an kinda shrugged and walked away. So I just thought oh well I tried and maybe he was just having a bad day. Later in the seminar I was working with one of his top guys at the time, I thought I was learning some sort of sparring drill from him so I was just kinda going with the flow and he crack me a good one on the head!! Fortunatly they used little twigs for sticks, He then follwed up with a remark something to the effect that oh yeah you guys don't spar!!! Of course this is a my word and students word against this guys but nonetheless when we started the drill again I didn't give him a chance to move, which he didn't like and couldn't figure out, so I just said opps looks like somebody learned how to spar and I walked away. That was pretty much the last time I supported one of Guro Dans Seminars, untill I got a little older and relized it wasn't his fault, and I am sure he never condoned that type of thing, so I now encourge people to train with him. And I support any of his people I can, I figure its FMA and thats the most important thing. ANd Guro Dan is a pretty incredible Martial Artist.

Anyway thats a brief little insight into the so called fued between the big three which really never amonted to much.

Rocky

 

[Black Grass]

Rocky,

Thanks for clearing that one up. I forgot that story about the book thing.

Its interesting (sad) to see that feuds in the FMA now are not between systems but with in systems. I wonder if there was more feuds between the systems if there would be more unity. Maybe what Modern Arnis (or any fragement groups like JKD, Pekiti, Inayan....) needs to unify is a common enemy.

Vince
aka Black Grass

 

[Rocky]

By the way I see you are no longer grounded, Now you be a good boy no more trouble from you!!!


Anyway the 7 count espada y dage, I was talking about is much different from the 6 count espada y daga, 7 count is done in a foward stance with interweaving circular strikes centering on upper body shifting with half stepping to gauge distance it is very hard to teach in a seminar, which is why Remy quite teaching it back in about 1980. It also ties in directly to Crossada and palis palis, and block and lock.

Next time you see Jay Spiral ask her if she has any tape of Remy and I doing Espada y Daga, Remy use to enjoy doing it at Jays seminars, and Jay use to commnet on how cool th efoot work was.


Rocky

 

[Toasty]

Hiya Rocky,
The whole thing about Guro Inosanto not putting Prof. Presas in his book? Where is that going? The only reason I can see for him not putting him in his book is ....ready for this - He never trained with the man!!
Every other FMA player in the book ( I assume you are talking about "The Filipino Martial Arts" (AS taught by Dan Inosanto is the second part of the title by the way) book) is someone that Guro Inosanto had trained with up to that point (Leo Gaje isn't in that book either nor is Edgar Sulite, why? Beacuse he hadn't trained with them up to the time that book was CO-written by him (there are 3 authors).

Anyway, it seems pretty obvious to me why certain people were written about, they were the people Guro Inosanto was actually training with and/or had trained with.
So if in fact Prof. Presas was upset with him for not including him in the book it seems that all he would have had to do is read the pages that had the FMA players listed to see what the connection was. But on the other hand if it was his students (and this seems way more lilkely to me) who were pissed that he wasnt included, well again, all they had to do was read the pages the state who these FMA players are/were.

be well
Rob

 

[Rocky]

The whole book thing isn't going any where!!

I wasn't takeing any sides one way or another, I simply explained why Remy felt some ill will, I didn't say he was right. As far as me wrighting "every onther FMA master under the sun" Obviously I was just using a figure of speach. At any rate Remy talked with him about wrighting the book and "FROM REMY"S POINT OF VIEW NOT MINE,NOT MY WIFES, MY KIDS MY UNBORN KIDS, ANY OF MY RELATIVES, STUDENTS, BUSINESS ASSOCIATES, IMAGINARY FRIENDS, VOICES IN MY HEAD, or ALEINS THAT KEEP TAKEN ME IN MY SLEEP. :rofl: Remy felt somewhat disrespected, right or wrong thats the way Remy saw it.

And yes I do think you are right about their students playing into it more than anything else.



Rocky

 

[Cruentus]

By the way I see you are no longer grounded, Now you be a good boy no more trouble from you!!!

LOL I'll try. Thanks for the input too, in your posts.

 

[arashikage1]

I helped to teach a seminar once with my cousin who las leading the seminar at the IMB Academy many years ago in the 90's and I had a accident with a student i was working with where I acidently popped him in the head. The blood going all over the palce made the injury look more than it did but i did appoligize. When working with weapons sometimes things happen and both people need to have control and be aware thst IF you are not payinging attention one or both of you will get hurt. It happens even in the best of conditions where the action is controlled like in movies when they are doing stunts and in pro-wrestling. Anyways..at the end of the day to this story there were no hard feelings that I was aware of and me and the guy i was working with continued to work with each other on other drills.