Funny vs Racist

[Bester]

-Question: why do we need to make racial jokes at all? I would say that people need to be able to laugh at themselves, but at what expense? Is that all comedy has to offer now, jokes about other people?


A---)

We make racial, gender, sexual and ethnic jokes to make ourselves feel better.

We put down others so to make ourselves seem greater.

Personally, I don't find most of them funny.


Humor to point out certain things is of course fine. The ironys, the sarcasms, the satires, and the parody all have their place.
But the hateful ones, well, that is the realm of the small mind.

Which is funnier:
"Ok, so, a jew a black and an indian woman are all at the welfare office......."
"George Bush choked on a pretzle today, following in his fathers food-flaw footsteps."
"McDonalds announces new zero carb meals. Twice the greese, no carbs! In unrelated news, anti-constipation medicine sales are up."

Do we really need #1? And, is it any more acceptable if it was "so, 3 white guys are at the golf course..."?

 

[rmcrobertson]

Dear Gullibile Foyled:

Oh wow. It's one's antipowerwalkerisme that disturbeth thee. Oops.

One might ask precisely how it is that you KNOW you were discriminated against--was it the Nation of Islam poster taped to the whiffle bat that they attacked you with? But one understands that you JUST KNOW these things, much as you JUST KNOW the slums are filled with drunken, lazy colored people a-feedin' off your hard labor.

One will also bet that some of us have far more experience of the real world. Why, some of us have taught for years in places like Compton--and gosh, we just haven't run into the whitey-hating folks that you seem to find everywhere. Oh, and incidentally--there don't actually seem to be a lot of, "white man must pay reparationsism," out there, either.

You might also try to keep it in mind that back here on earth, there are certain well-documented realities. Try to find out about them, rather than relying on personal dislike of people you've never met, coupled with replaying right-wing propaganda, to guide your understanding of actual life.

 

[Bester]

Dear Gullibile Foyled:

Oh wow. It's one's antipowerwalkerisme that disturbeth thee. Oops.

One might ask precisely how it is that you KNOW you were discriminated against--was it the Nation of Islam poster taped to the whiffle bat that they attacked you with? But one understands that you JUST KNOW these things, much as you JUST KNOW the slums are filled with drunken, lazy colored people a-feedin' off your hard labor.

Lets see, they TOLD ME!
Interviewer at the job said they prefered a minority as they got a TAX BREAK.

6 white guys kicking a black guy screaming "die ******" = racist.
6 black guys kicking a white guy screaming "die honkey" = not racist
Only in Mr. Robinsons Neighborhood.

One will also bet that some of us have far more experience of the real world. Why, some of us have taught for years in places like Compton--and gosh, we just haven't run into the whitey-hating folks that you seem to find everywhere. Oh, and incidentally--there don't actually seem to be a lot of, "white man must pay reparationsism," out there, either.

Some of us just aren't as sheltered, lucky, etc.

You might also try to keep it in mind that back here on earth, there are certain well-documented realities. Try to find out about them, rather than relying on personal dislike of people you've never met, coupled with replaying right-wing propaganda, to guide your understanding of actual life.

I'm sorry. Let me go check that Wiki you like for travel tips Doc. Reality, it aint all nice and 'white' like you make it out to be bigot. I have no dislike of the rainbow, the genders or the colors. I do not introduce my friend of black African decent (who I've known the last 20 years of my life) as "My Black Friend". He is just my friend. I don't refer to my Jewish Friend as "My Jewish Friend". He is also, just my friend. I don't even refer to my significant other who is female as my "girl friend". She is also just "my friend". (Of course in her case, she is my best friend).

But please, continue to spew your pointed, narrow and closed minded fluff. As to finding out about them, Doc, I travel. It's part of my job. I've been around the world at least once. I've dined on bugs in 3rd world nations while you were marching in protest or climbing the ivory tower you now preach from.

I see people as that. People. Pity some fixate so much on the colors, shapes and desires and their own delusions of inadequacy.

 

[Simon Curran]

Let's face it, what it all boils down to is prejudice, and that is the same, be it in a racial context, an educational context a gender context, whatever, it is all prejudice.

 

[Tgace]

If some white guy were to use Chris Rocks material, how would that be recieved?

 

[Bester]

Badly.

 

[Tgace]

So we are living in a nation where its not the intent of whats said thats important, its not even the content thats important. Its the race or sex of the person who is saying it thats important.

 

[ghostdog2]

As they say around here: " You got dat right. "

Equally important is the "sensitivity" of the audience. They get to judge you by their standards.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Dear Gulliboyle:

Sheltered? One wishes.

It was illegal for the interviewer to tell you that, or to act upon it. You should call the EEOC and lodge a complaint.

Funnily enough, went to school in Orange, NJ; worked in Newark, NJ for two years; worked in inner-city hospitals over years elsewhere; taught in Compton, CA for nine or ten years; never heard "honky," except on TV.

As for where one now teaches, wish it were the ivory tower. But nope; not in well over a decade.

Sorry; realize that a) you'll simply believe that's a lie; b) this clashes so completely with your ideology, that you won't pay attention. Sorry too that have worked for a living for longer than you've been alive.

But glad to hear that you're a bug-eatin' globe-hoppin' guy, who's learned to use words like, "Doc," and "spew," in insults.

One regrets that you didn't get the job you wanted and worked for. If the interviewer really did turn you down for the reason cited, of course that's wrong--but nonetheless, you're focused on the wrong enemies.

 

[kenpo tiger]

As they say around here: " You got dat right. "

Equally important is the "sensitivity" of the audience. They get to judge you by their standards.

I think we're all guilty of that at one time or another, consciously or not. Part of the human condition.

 

[Bester]

Dear Gulliboyle:

Sheltered? One wishes.

It was illegal for the interviewer to tell you that, or to act upon it. You should call the EEOC and lodge a complaint.

No ****.
Did lodge complaint. At hearing interviewer denied everything. After the case was dismissed for lack of evidence, the interviewer told me in front of their lawyer that I shouldn't have "done this" refering to the whole farse of a hearing and walked away with a **** eating grin on her face. Maybe if I had been less trusting, gone in wired, with a minicam in my hair I would have had the proof, but I was a bit trusting back then.

Funnily enough, went to school in Orange, NJ; worked in Newark, NJ for two years; worked in inner-city hospitals over years elsewhere; taught in Compton, CA for nine or ten years; never heard "honky," except on TV.

Me either. Only place I heard it was on the Jeffersons.

As for where one now teaches, wish it were the ivory tower. But nope; not in well over a decade.

Pity.

Sorry; realize that a) you'll simply believe that's a lie; b) this clashes so completely with your ideology, that you won't pay attention. Sorry too that have worked for a living for longer than you've been alive.

A- I always pay attention, when there is someone saying something worth paying attention too.
B- Don't apologize. Correct the error.

Since some will see that as "bad talk", I will clarify so that even an uneducated individual can follow. Times have changed. You are older than me. Big deal. What was true in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and even the 90's is NOT true today. Your data is outdated Doc.

But glad to hear that you're a bug-eatin' globe-hoppin' guy, who's learned to use words like, "Doc," and "spew," in insults.

I haven't yet insulted anyone. That is an artform.

One regrets that you didn't get the job you wanted and worked for. If the interviewer really did turn you down for the reason cited, of course that's wrong--but nonetheless, you're focused on the wrong enemies.

Doc, everyone is my enemy. The person sitting next to me at the employment office is my enemy in the job hunt. The person at the supermarket taking the last box of Frosted Flakes is my enemy in the hunt for food. The person whining because their candidate didn't win the election is my enemy, as is the one gloating that their 'man' won. Life is a battle-royal, in the end, it is last man standing. My enemy isn't based on race, politics, gender, or any of that crap. It is based on the struggle at hand, and where I wish to "score" in comparison to my competition.

It doesn't matter to me if your American Taliban buddies get their wet dream to blast "Marse Robert" off Stone Mountain, if Dubya is impeached, If Kerry has a hangnail, or if some twit on the internet thinks I'm racist because I said "black" and "white". In the end, we are all dust, and none of this matters a bit. Not me, not you, nada. If I vanish tomorow, the only thing here left of me will be words discounted by some as the ramblings of a sad, angry man, and aplauded by others as brilliant and dead on.

It doesn't matter.

Blacks/Browns/Negros/African Americans/People of Color will still have issues with Whites/Pinks/The Man/ThoseDamnYankees/Whatever, and vice versa.

It doesn't matter.

I will still insist that dual standards are wrong, period.
Others will insist it's fair/right/owed/whatever.

It doesn't matter.

We are ALL shadows and dust.

 

[rmcrobertson]

One considered taking up the whole rant based on "Dust in the Wind," but regrettably, one doesn't allow oneself that sort of mean-spirited bad manners.

More interesting is that the claim about having been discriminated against has now changed. When first posted it, Bester claimed that this happened at, "my last job interview;" now, he's claiming that he went to the interview, got turned down, lodged a complaint, had a hearing--all since his last job interview?

Is it that, a) the bureaucracy moved with the speed of light, b) it's been a long time since the last job interview, and he's been sitting on 'is butt at home, taking welfare from, "the man," or c) this is another one of those stories heard on, say, Rush Limbaugh?

As for the assertion that, "everyone is...enemy," my goodness. How's it going, Thomas Hobbes? Everyone is NOT our enemy--except that in capitalism, it is dog eat dog. Do try to get enemies straight--it's a system, one that for now we're stuck with because we apparently don't know how to do any better.

We will also find that if you skip the sophistry--you know; say anything, as long as you win--and the stupid attempted insults of, "Doc," and, "your American Taliban buddies," which come from cripes knows where, we'll attract a little better discussion.

To return to the actual point: some of us are contending that a) our society remains racist in all sorts of ways; b) language, history, economics, etc., construct meanings in ways we cannot easily dismiss; c) regrettably, it's starry-eyed nonsense to confuse what SHOULD be true about "race,' with what is in fact true. And d)--what's interesting aabout that cartoon is that if you change the skin color, it's funny--to the extent it is funny at all--for very different reasons.

By the way, Freud's notion that all humor is a form of translated anger helps explain why Richard Pryor's jokes are funny and Klan jokes aren't. Or does anybody wanna finance that remake of "Blazing Saddles," with, say, Tom Metzger as the Sheriff of Rock Ridge?

 

[kenpo tiger]

One considered taking up the whole rant based on "Dust in the Wind," but regrettably, one doesn't allow oneself that sort of mean-spirited bad manners.

More interesting is that the claim about having been discriminated against has now changed. When first posted it, Bester claimed that this happened at, "my last job interview;" now, he's claiming that he went to the interview, got turned down, lodged a complaint, had a hearing--all since his last job interview?

Is it that, a) the bureaucracy moved with the speed of light, b) it's been a long time since the last job interview, and he's been sitting on 'is butt at home, taking welfare from, "the man," or c) this is another one of those stories heard on, say, Rush Limbaugh?

As for the assertion that, "everyone is...enemy," my goodness. How's it going, Thomas Hobbes? Everyone is NOT our enemy--except that in capitalism, it is dog eat dog. Do try to get enemies straight--it's a system, one that for now we're stuck with because we apparently don't know how to do any better.

We will also find that if you skip the sophistry--you know; say anything, as long as you win--and the stupid attempted insults of, "Doc," and, "your American Taliban buddies," which come from cripes knows where, we'll attract a little better discussion.

To return to the actual point: some of us are contending that a) our society remains racist in all sorts of ways; b) language, history, economics, etc., construct meanings in ways we cannot easily dismiss; c) regrettably, it's starry-eyed nonsense to confuse what SHOULD be true about "race,' with what is in fact true. And d)--what's interesting aabout that cartoon is that if you change the skin color, it's funny--to the extent it is funny at all--for very different reasons.

By the way, Freud's notion that all humor is a form of translated anger helps explain why Richard Pryor's jokes are funny and Klan jokes aren't. Or does anybody wanna finance that remake of "Blazing Saddles," with, say, Tom Metzger as the Sheriff of Rock Ridge?

It comes down to your comfort level with laughing at yourself and others. I know people who applaud the strangest 'humor' as genius (including Blazing Saddles) -- and I usually don't say anything if I don't agree. If you also read the SpongeBob thread, there's a similar notion running through there as well: we aren't who we were because we've been forced to accept certain realities.

Bester, As to your *Doomsday* approach (my appellation, not yours) to life, you don't seem to be that type from some of your other posts in other threads. Life is difficult for everyone - look at poor Donald Trump, getting divorced and married so often, and teetering on the edge of bankruptcy with that casino . *sighs* It's all relative. You can choose to see the glass half empty, as many do, or half full, as I do. Life is too short to be viewing it as a battle. Those are challenges to my way of thinking. Sorry for your pain.

 

[Bester]

One considered taking up the whole rant based on "Dust in the Wind," but regrettably, one doesn't allow oneself that sort of mean-spirited bad manners.

Actually, that wasn't the reference. In fact, thats 3 you've missed. You're slipping Doc.

More interesting is that the claim about having been discriminated against has now changed. When first posted it, Bester claimed that this happened at, "my last job interview;" now, he's claiming that he went to the interview, got turned down, lodged a complaint, had a hearing--all since his last job interview?

Is it that, a) the bureaucracy moved with the speed of light, b) it's been a long time since the last job interview, and he's been sitting on 'is butt at home, taking welfare from, "the man," or c) this is another one of those stories heard on, say, Rush Limbaugh?

It's been a while since that interview. My current job I didn't interview for.
I also work as a contractor for various agencies, and do projects on the side.

As for the assertion that, "everyone is...enemy," my goodness. How's it going, Thomas Hobbes? Everyone is NOT our enemy--except that in capitalism, it is dog eat dog. Do try to get enemies straight--it's a system, one that for now we're stuck with because we apparently don't know how to do any better.

So take up arms, tear down the corrupt society and build a new one.

We will also find that if you skip the sophistry--you know; say anything, as long as you win--and the stupid attempted insults of, "Doc," and, "your American Taliban buddies," which come from cripes knows where, we'll attract a little better discussion.

The Taliban had their heads located in a dark cavern' and a hobby of blowing things they don't agree with off of mountains. You advocate or support the same destruction of history.

To return to the actual point: some of us are contending that a) our society remains racist in all sorts of ways; b) language, history, economics, etc., construct meanings in ways we cannot easily dismiss; c) regrettably, it's starry-eyed nonsense to confuse what SHOULD be true about "race,' with what is in fact true. And d)--what's interesting aabout that cartoon is that if you change the skin color, it's funny--to the extent it is funny at all--for very different reasons.

This part, I agree with.

By the way, Freud's notion that all humor is a form of translated anger helps explain why Richard Pryor's jokes are funny and Klan jokes aren't. Or does anybody wanna finance that remake of "Blazing Saddles," with, say, Tom Metzger as the Sheriff of Rock Ridge?

No, but I will buy a ticket to see Jackie Chan in a remake of The Jeffer-sans.

 

[Bester]

Bester, As to your *Doomsday* approach (my appellation, not yours) to life, you don't seem to be that type from some of your other posts in other threads. Life is difficult for everyone - look at poor Donald Trump, getting divorced and married so often, and teetering on the edge of bankruptcy with that casino . *sighs* It's all relative. You can choose to see the glass half empty, as many do, or half full, as I do. Life is too short to be viewing it as a battle. Those are challenges to my way of thinking. Sorry for your pain.

Pain is good. When I can no longer feel pain, I'll be dead. Doesn't mean I like feeling it, but the absence of it is not always a good thing either. But, I do appreciate the kind thoughts.

My point (1 of them, there were others) is that we all live, we all die. Arguing over color, creed, sex, etc, is a waste of time. Time we have in limited supply, and time better spent chasing dreams, improving ourselves and our families, and simply enjoying life.

When I die, 100 years from now, few if any will remember me. Not my dreams, not my likes, not my hair color, nor even the tint to my skin. My name will be lost as well. I will be dust, and my memories as shadows. If I leave here, or am banned, in 5 years, will my words still even exist, or will they have vanished into the realm of digital darkness? We remember Washington, and King because they made a lasting memory, but do we remember the name of the 3rd guy on the right rowing the boat across the Delaware, or walking 3 down from Dr. King? No. They too, are Shadows and Dust.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Just out of morbid curiosity, would you mind explaining precisely how--in a thread where one has repeatedly argued that words and images take their meanings not merely from our own minds, but from language and from history--advocated or supported any destruction of history at all?

For example, one has repeatedly pointed out that the Taliban were in part our own creation during the Afghan/Russian war.

Indeed, if you'd read ANYTHING one has been writing, you'd see that again and again and again, have been very specific indeed about looking at history as it really is--so where're you getting this nonsense from? Michael Savage?

 

[Bester]

Just out of morbid curiosity, would you mind explaining precisely how--in a thread where one has repeatedly argued that words and images take their meanings not merely from our own minds, but from language and from history--advocated or supported any destruction of history at all?

For example, one has repeatedly pointed out that the Taliban were in part our own creation during the Afghan/Russian war.

Indeed, if you'd read ANYTHING one has been writing, you'd see that again and again and again, have been very specific indeed about looking at history as it really is--so where're you getting this nonsense from? Michael Savage?

I don't have time to dig and sift. In several past threads you have suggested that the swastika, confederate flags and other symbols were solely racist, and encouraged surpression of them and the history they represent to promote your politically "correct" viewpoints. You have also slandered my ancestors as racists, insulted my spiritual brethern, and more. Your bias has been evident all the way back to comments made by you in Oct 2003 here.

Your habit of refering to yourself as "One" is also singularly annoying. You sir, are most certainly "Not The One", to quote my good friend Zathras.

 

[Adept]

Your habit of refering to yourself as "One" is also singularly annoying.

Oh I dont know, one finds his flippant and inconsistant use of 'one' as opposed to 'I' to be a source of quaint amusement.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

"Number One, I order you to take a Number Two" - Captain Beavis

:rofl:

 

[rmcrobertson]

One uses, "one," to adopt a less-personal voice, because one got tired of insults from people who apparently don't know how to argue, and theorized that the more-impersonal tone would help.

Further, one has never slandered your ancestors--one noted that some things were true of white Southerners. For example, many of them owned slaves, and the Powers That Be in the South pushed the War to protect their personal and economic interests in owning slaves and maintaining the slave trade. Indeed, they fundamentally entwined their notions of, "freedom," and "state's rights," with the rights to trade in human beings.

One also noted that at present, the meanings of such symbols as the swastika--much like that beautiful air of Haydn's--are hopelessly entwined with the Nazis. As--as one has noted repeatedly--are a number of things that, "liberals," hold dear.

Not very remarkably, the folks who make these claims never seem to be able to provide simple supporting quotes or evidence. It remains conjecture--and conjecture, furthermore, that is generally used to avoid discussing the topic or looking at historical reality. Very similarly, the reiterated accusation of being "liberal," of hating the US, etc.--a claim that comes out of right-wing pieties repeated and repeated over the last century--is employed to avoid real discussion, and real looks at history.

Which brings us back to, "one." If you'll actually look at the last couple of pages, you'll see that much of the material revolves around what a rotten guy I am. And the beauty part is, it's all based on claims that folks, "don't have time," to substantiate, and claims about what I must be thinking, and weird readings of comments.

Regrettably, one doesn't feel it's appropriate to respond in kind. And while one understands that this will probably simply occasion more of the same, it still will be inappropriate to respond in kind.

Just discuss the ideas. Just provide some documentation, substantiation, what have you. When the other guy's wrong--and if us liberals are that far off the beam, think how easy it should be to show!--just show that they are.

Otherwise, it's just Michael-Savegesque attempted bullying. To that, mirroring, ananlysis, and documentation will be in order.