Funny vs Racist

[rmcrobertson]

One used, "African-American," in an attempt to use less-charged language in a context that involved people trying to argue that "black people," were biologically less-intelligent than, "white people."

To return to the opening of the thread--and to reality--perhaps one should stop trying to invoke, "science," as a support for a claim about something that never happened--running a cartoon featuring two guys saying, "black people." Run the cartoon in an actual general-publication newspaper directed at the same population, so that the experimental circumstances are about the same; collect responses (and collect actual responses from the genral public to the original version, too, which you haven't done), and then we can discuss science and reason. Until you do that, all you have is personally-biased speculation.

Incidentally, when one repeatedly cites "The Bell Curve," as unchallengeable proof about the heritability of intelligence as related to "race," one most certainly is claiming that, "black," people are as a group less intelligent than, "white," people as a group.

 

[Tgace]

The n****r issue made me remember a little story. I was in basic training in Ft. McCllelan Al. and a group of black soldiers kind of "cliqued" together, nothing wrong or unnatural there. They werent exclusive, and for the most part we all "got along" fairly well as you all share the same misery. There was one white soldier who used to hang around with this "clique" and for the most part seemed accepted. The black soldiers used to n****r this and n****r that with each other all of the time,and I mean all of the time. None of the white soldiers (naturally and intelligently) assumed to use the same terms with them. However the wite soldier who used to "hang" with this group must have thought he was accepted enough to try it once and let me tell you all HELL broke loose. Racial sensitvity training, people being put before the 1st Sgt. and the Commander, letters home etc. etc.

Thats my "issue" with this topic. It isnt the "if they can use it why cant I?" issue, its the why is it "assumed" that a white person using the term is automatically racist even if as in this situaton it was "innocently" used?

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Well that's just the idea, y'see? The historical context is what defines his saying n****r. White people have historically used it to demean and oppress black people, so that's what it means when a white person says it. His intentions at the time to try and fit in had nothing to do with it. He's white, he said it, so he's being racist.

Or at least, that's what I understand the argument to be. Historical context, not actual intent, determines what is meant by his using the word.

 

[FearlessFreep]

I live in New Mexico where there is not a very substantial black population, but there is a large hispanic and native american population; and thus 'racial' issues usually are about white vs indian vs hispanic. It gives an interesting perspective on black vs white racial issues in the rest of the country.

 

[Cryozombie]

Or at least, that's what I understand the argument to be. Historical context, not actual intent, determines what is meant by his using the word.

Yeah, and thats really really stupid... "Historical context" says Blacks are inferior to me... but that doesnt make it so.

 

[Darksoul]

-Leaving Affirmative Action and other programs out that award people for what color they are, has anybody ever achieved anything in life because of their color? Did they become great teachers, or martial artists, or human beings because of their color? Does the color of one's skin endow people with super powers to achieve in life? Now a taxi driver may stop for a white person, and not a black person; see, its the taxi driver's reaction I'm referring to. Thats an example of the problem, the cause could be linked to many reasons. Racism, fear, whatever. But if a person works their way through school and does well in the 'real world', can we say its because of their color? I guess I'm just trying to focus on individual worth, effort, responsibility, not how others may treat that person. That person who succeeded may have done so with assistance because of skin color, but did he not the work? I think its important to separate the two. Or I'm just going off on a tangent, for which I humbly apologize.


A---)

 

[bignick]

First off, I didn't think either one of them were funny...

Secondly, these examples that you keep giving of unbalanced situations.

Racist - White Power
Not Racist - Black Power

If someone hates or discriminates against anyone based on their race they are a racist...I don't see how this example holds up at all...If someone is using the slogan "Black Power" as a call to crimes and discrimination against white people it just as bad as people using the slogan "White power" for the same reason...

The thing is, "Black Power" in most contexts was a call to equality and civil rights...white power was used primarily as a racial slogan against colored people.....

Sexist - Male
Not Sexist - Female

See above, again, sexism is discrimination based on sex again, not just men or women

Bigoted - "Those Damn Indians"
Not Bigoted - "Those Damn Whites"

Again, see above

Racist/Bigoted/Sexist
- National Association for the Advancement of White People
- White Pride Day
- Not hiring a lesser qualified minority

Not Racist/Bigoted/Sexist
- National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
- Black Pride Week
- Skiping over a fully qualified and experenced white male to hire an inexperienced and under or non qualified minority.

Here, advancing white people? Ummm, let me pull out the history books here, but I'm pretty sure white people have done alright for themselves over the last couple of centuries. When was the last time you had to worry about being enslaved or lynched...? These are things that are within living memory.

Bigots:
- Archie Bunker
- Ralph Kramden
- Anyone who takes pride in Confederate History

Not Bigots:
- Dave Chapelle
- Fred Sanford
- Anyone who bashes Confederate History

Alrighty, to start off with, Archie Bunker was a fictional character and was really the butt of the joke for his views. Secondly, I don't know how much you've watched the Chapelle's Show, but he presents a lot worse image of black people than he does of white. His show comes down hard on pretty much everybody...

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Thats my "issue" with this topic. It isnt the "if they can use it why cant I?" issue, its the why is it "assumed" that a white person using the term is automatically racist even if as in this situaton it was "innocently" used?


Try asking a black person.

No, I'll suggest you ask black people. Ask a number of them. Get a different perspective from a number of different groups of blacks. It'd be interesting to have this question posed to blacks from Detroit and compare their answers to blacks from Mississippi.

Anybody up for that?


Regards,


Steve

 

[Feisty Mouse]

-Leaving Affirmative Action and other programs out that award people for what color they are, has anybody ever achieved anything in life because of their color? Did they become great teachers, or martial artists, or human beings because of their color? Does the color of one's skin endow people with super powers to achieve in life? Now a taxi driver may stop for a white person, and not a black person; see, its the taxi driver's reaction I'm referring to. Thats an example of the problem, the cause could be linked to many reasons. Racism, fear, whatever. But if a person works their way through school and does well in the 'real world', can we say its because of their color? I guess I'm just trying to focus on individual worth, effort, responsibility, not how others may treat that person. That person who succeeded may have done so with assistance because of skin color, but did he not the work? I think its important to separate the two. Or I'm just going off on a tangent, for which I humbly apologize.


A---)

We are social animals - some might say, *the* most social (although that would be debated). If I am someone who is treated poorly by people in positions of power ever since I was young, this will affect a number of things, including the expectations I have for myself, and the drive I have to see my goals accomplished.

If you sit someone down in a lab, and hand them a test (whether for math skills, vocabulary skills, whatever), and present it in a neutral way, people generally perform to their abilities.

If you hand a test to a group, and say "it's a math test", girls (vs. boys) tend to do *worse* than control groups. They know what's expected of them, and they "self-handicap".

Likewise, if I'm a black woman living in a city where cabs driven by white drivers, for example, routinely refuse to stop for me, I might get a bit of a chip on my shoulder, and stop expecting them to stop - or start expecting white people to be jerks.

 

[Darksoul]

-I think it would behoove us as human beings to not use race as an excuse, but obviously we are unable to do that, at least right now. Perhaps that will change. I look at my skin, in the glow of the office lights, and am completely unable to fathom how people can judge simply on color alone. For countless years this division has existed for numerous reasons. If life could be divided into positive and negative, so many seem to project the negative. To what end? I guess people would need to be more uniform in appearance to ever make this end. Though how boring. We're all so different, and unique.


A---)

 

[Bester]

I am sorry if what I said offended. However, I know what I have seen and experienced. It was and remains examples of bias, discrimination and bigotry. As always, your milage may vary. For those who had better luck or better experiences, good for you. For those who had the same, or worse, continue the fight. And, for those who continue to promote the misconception that central Kansas is no different than Harlem NY, maybe you should go spend some time there today, not 30 years ago. People, places and enviroments change, and some of those enviroments are less than friendly to outsiders. My examples may not meet collage requirements, or even simplistic bbs debate standards, but if you take the time to read and think, you may see something beyond that which you initially expected. The stupid idea that I as a white male somehow owes some waste of DNA anything, or should have to suffer because they mistakenly think I owe them anything is pure bull. I am not in a privilaged class. I work for a living, and I made it here on my own efforts. No grants, no free money, no 'govmnt cheese' as Robert Townsend used to joke. I did it the same way my ancestors did. Hard work, long hours, and some serious sacrifice. Maybe, just maybe, these lazy useless unmotivated slackers should put down their remote controls, get off their sofas and do the same. Rather than bitching about 'reparations', 'free money' and what is 'owed' to them or how it is so unfair how life treats them.

Neither cartoon was funny, the stereotypes were insulting all around, and we, as a people would be better off if that crap ended.

It won't. But I can dream.

One man once had a dream. I don't believe this was what he drempt of.

 

[rmcrobertson]

1. Precisely who was it who said that you as a "white male," (whatever THAT means) owe anybody anything?

2. When precisely was the last time that you got hassled on account of your skin color? When was the last time, in fact, that your skin color didn't positively help you out?

3. We all of us rely on other people's work, now and in the past. That's in reality, of course.

4. Dream schmeam. Anybody wanna argue that powerwalkers DON'T look pretty silly?

 

[kenpo tiger]

[robertson said:] 4. Dream schmeam. Anybody wanna argue that powerwalkers DON'T look pretty silly?

Uh. Was there a point to those cartoons, other than stupid people who run in the snow/ice/cold? Guess I'm colorblind.

 

[Tgace]

Well...I thought the point of the original cartoon was that only "White" people were stupid enough to run in the snow.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Huh. Looked like two black kids freezing their butts off, watching some goofy-looking white kid run by in the snow.

 

[Tgace]

Yeah..and the one black kid says "White people". Implying that only "White people" are stupid enough to go jogging in the snow. It ran in my local paper too. Didnt really offend me, but it is an example of racial humor thats "good for the goose" but im not so certain how the reverse would be accepted.

 

[psi_radar]

There's two topics here:

1) Reverse Racism: I first remember having the "reverse racism" discussion with a Cornell professor, I think his name was Richard Spence (a black man), about 15 years ago. In a sociology class, he put forth the notion that as the ruling, most powerful race in America, whites could not have the systemic power that we wield turned against us--and therefore could not be victimized.

This seemed ironic to me, since it so happened that that day I had just returned from visiting a white friend who had been viciously beaten by a gang of black guys for being white in the wrong part of Philadelphia.

So, respecting but not fully agreeing with the professor’s statement, I came to my own conclusion--there's really two different types of racism. One is personal, in which one group of humans decides to cause immediate, physical or mental harm to specific individuals simply because they are "the other" group, which they feel threatened by or fear or hate for some reason, and this harm is usually enabled by proximity. One can become the “other” by being of another culture, class, color, or even a sports-team rival. Then there's Systemic, in which only the race/creed holding the majority of governing power can victimize members of society. I think these are distinct, and both very real. The most alarming events occur when these types of racism converge to fulfill an agenda--eradication of the Jews, Kurds, Cossacks, American Indians...you get the picture.

2) Racism in Humor.

For me, neither of those cartoon was very funny. I haven’t really observed white people running in the cold any more than black people, but I also live in a mostly white (and Hispanic) part of the country. So it didn’t resonate for me.

There’s two ways to use race in humor. The bad way, the cheap way, the racist way, is to elicit a response from a group by making it feel superior over another. On a higher level, performers such as Chris Rock use racial humor as social criticism, pointing out our imperfections as people, our senseless divisions, and ultimately, how similar we all are--while getting a few laughs. This cartoon falls into the first category.

 

[Bester]

1. Precisely who was it who said that you as a "white male," (whatever THAT means) owe anybody anything?

Usually any time I speak with those morons who want reparations made ot slave decendants.

2. When precisely was the last time that you got hassled on account of your skin color? When was the last time, in fact, that your skin color didn't positively help you out?

Hassled - Last week.
When it didn't help - My last job interview.

3. We all of us rely on other people's work, now and in the past. That's in reality, of course.

Right, but the negation is not what I said. I said I work for a living, rather than sitting at home on my *** collecting the free govmt money thinking 'the man' owes me.

4. Dream schmeam. Anybody wanna argue that powerwalkers DON'T look pretty silly?

So, your own bigotry shows through. Well done.

 

[Bester]

This seemed ironic to me, since it so happened that that day I had just returned from visiting a white friend who had been viciously beaten by a gang of black guys for being white in the wrong part of Philadelphia.

That cannot possibly have happened, or if it did, it must be a very rare event. To meet with true source documentation standards, can you get the blood type, social senility number and voter registration card for each of those involved? *

There’s two ways to use race in humor. The bad way, the cheap way, the racist way, is to elicit a response from a group by making it feel superior over another. On a higher level, performers such as Chris Rock use racial humor as social criticism, pointing out our imperfections as people, our senseless divisions, and ultimately, how similar we all are--while getting a few laughs. This cartoon falls into the first category.

Thank you. :asian:




* this was sarcasm directed at those source documentors so anal as to dismiss things that are outside their own narrow experience or that disagree with their own predetermined ideas.

 

[Bester]

Yeah..and the one black kid says "White people". Implying that only "White people" are stupid enough to go jogging in the snow. It ran in my local paper too. Didnt really offend me, but it is an example of racial humor thats "good for the goose" but im not so certain how the reverse would be accepted.

It wouldn't be, but we are expected to just "take" the 1 way shot, but condemn it if it goes in the other direction.

Bull Pocky!