From Blocky to Circular Movement - A Simple Form Drill

[dancingalone]

Someone messaged me with a question about how I have adapted some of my kata training methods to the Korean hyung. It seems like a good topic for a group discussion too so I am taking the liberty of moving some of my correspondence here.

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Hard styles like karate and tkd are often criticized for being 'linear'. Most who frame this argument generally haven't thought it through however and it's an empty talking point IMO. What is a circle? It's just a series of lines circumscribed to make a circle, correct? You can't have a circle without a line, and so by extension in martial arts you can't have circular movement without linear motion. The two are indelibly linked.

It just so happens that hard styles generally start with 'hard' & straight line motions. Later as one advances, they learn how to use relaxed, whole body movement and along with muscular contraction/expansion (some call this breath control) to add potency to their counters along with curved or 'circular' movement.

Let me give an example of one of my kata-based training drills. Take a blocky white belt form like Pinan Shodan or since you're a TKD man pick Chon-Ji or Palgwe Il-Jang. We surely don't need instructions on how to practice the form in a powerful, linear fashion right? It's all about hip and waist turning and moving your body weight into each stance or block/punch.

How then to transmute the form into something else? Well, it starts with the mind and setting your practice goals as you run the kata. Don't think of the form as teaching you to turn to face an opponent to execute a forceful block and then a smashing 'one strike kill' punch. Think of each turn as an opportunity to perform a body change to avoid an attack. So you aren't trying to turn your hips into the block for maximum power - you're trying to turn with your physical core to change the angle YOU present to the attack, causing to miss, ideally by only an inch or so. The block is similarly transmuted; it becomes more of a relational guide for you, a way for you to connect and blend yourself with the attacker. You are not repelling the attacker with the block, instead you are trying to feel his energy and where he will seek to direct it next. And the counter punch when you perform should be with a smooth, whipping feeling coming out from your core and then recoil back again with a breathing in sensation.

As we practice in this manner with each segment of the form, we'll swiftly realize the embusen or floor pattern of the form is no longer a blocky, h-shape. It becomes rather more like a shaded circle.

I like adding actual attackers all around the student, so they get an opportunity to work off tangible motions. Try this out when you get a chance. I'd be interested to hear what your impressions of the drill are.

 

[Manny]

Maybe I got you. Let's talk about an atack using a club in downward motion directed to the head. The defender raises his lefth arm to perform olgul maki, the traditonal way will be to stop the blow with the risk of a broken arm, that will be the linear move right? The circular motion will be performin an angled ogul maki in continus circle motion to deflect (to the side) the blow instead of take it right?

Manny

 

[dancingalone]

Maybe I got you. Let's talk about an atack using a club in downward motion directed to the head. The defender raises his lefth arm to perform olgul maki, the traditonal way will be to stop the blow with the risk of a broken arm, that will be the linear move right? The circular motion will be performin an angled ogul maki in continus circle motion to deflect (to the side) the blow instead of take it right?

That's mostly right. The primary goal of this exercise is to get out of the way of the attack. Preferably with enough precision so you are not just jumping away from the punch/kick. The ideal outcome is if we make it so that the blow actually misses because of the new ANGLE we have turned our body, rather than lurching backwards as is the usual natural reaction most people have. The blow misses because we have presented a slightly difference stance in relation to the blow rather than because we MOVED, if that makes sense to you.

The second main idea out of this exercise is that we are actually not deflecting or parrying even. The body change should have already done the job of averting the attack. Thus, the existing block in the kata is more of an energy feeling move in preparation for joining with the attacker in order to gain advantage over him.

This aikido video illustrates some of the concept. When you view it, ignore the completion of the throw, as that's not really important at this point. Notice instead how the sensei has put his arm out for uke to move against. The moment uke exerted any pressure or force, the defender alters his angle and has actually used his 'blocking' hand to merge with the attacker.

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[ForeverStudent]

I started with Hapkido classes to learn circular motion and to upgrade my hosinsul.

Now i hold red belt in Hapkido, and my hosinsul is much better.

 

[clfsean]

Quickest way through a circle? Straight line...
Easiest way to move a straight line? Circle...

Center to circle... circle to center...

If you have too much of one thing, you're out of balance.

Gotta have circles ... even just small ones, but they have to be there.

 

[chrispillertkd]

It's an interesting post, with a lot of things I agree with. I am not sure, however, what the quote below means:

As we practice in this manner with each segment of the form, we'll swiftly realize the embusen or floor pattern of the form is no longer a blocky, h-shape. It becomes rather more like a shaded circle.

Do you mean that the floor pattern actually becomes a circle? Or do you mean that the pattern stays basically the same but the movements the practitioner uses to trace the pattern have become "rounded" over time? Or the stepping itself has changed to be more "curvey"?

Pax,

Chris

 

[Manny]

Dancingalone a videoclip is worth than 1000 words, as you know I studied a little of aikido so I understood your way of thinking about circular movement.

Thanx for share the videoclip.

Manny

 

[bluewaveschool]

Manny, are you saying to block the CLUB itself with the rising block? That's insanity if so. I block their arm on the forearm, as close to the elbow as possible. This greatly reduces the power of the blow I'm blocking. Then again, I generally prefer to defend against an overhead blow by side stepping to the outside of the attacking hand and guiding the attacking hand downwards. If they happen to be attacking with a knife, you can guide it right into their own leg.

 

[Manny]

Manny, are you saying to block the CLUB itself with the rising block? That's insanity if so. I block their arm on the forearm, as close to the elbow as possible. This greatly reduces the power of the blow I'm blocking. Then again, I generally prefer to defend against an overhead blow by side stepping to the outside of the attacking hand and guiding the attacking hand downwards. If they happen to be attacking with a knife, you can guide it right into their own leg.

YES I am saying blocking the club with the forearm just for make a point, a wrong point. I know I must step outside the blow and try to deflect it (change the direction of the blow) and block the arm not the club, however if the block is performed the wrong way as I mentioned (forearm against club) using a circular move would make the club to slip in the foreram (at 45º angle) and yes it would hurt but not break the arm.

I agree with you the block must be performed to the arm (not the club) and preferably close to the elbow to reduce injure and try to break the elbow of the guy with the club or as you mentioned lineas above....... defend against an overhead blow by side stepping to the outside of the attacking hand and guiding the attacking hand downwards

Something I learned from Kenpo Karate is to deflect instead to block whenever is possible because it is less stresfull for the arm.

Manny

 

[bluewaveschool]

I teaching 'blocking' to beginners to learn the hands motions and footwork down. Then at mid-level I tell them that there is little to no true blocking, that everything they learned as a block is really a strike. And then they start learning some fun ways to hurt the attacker using a simple movement they are very familiar with.

 

[dortiz]

Hmmm, Can you blend Hard and soft, you bet. But do each operate in a sort of set manner, yes.
I can slide off to the left with a block and in a soft circular manner pick up and circle in taking the balance. Hard style I drop into a stance and deliver a stronger set series of strikes or even also block grab. But here I tend to take a harder stance and push and strike differently.
I think hard/linear styles work great as do soft and yes they can blend but I DO think they have differnt techniques based on entry, stance, method etc. And to some may look the same yet to those that know they can see that same technique and how its being done very differently. Not bad but differently.
Again, you can have some blending but the Hardstyles have a way of operating as do the Soft.

 

[dortiz]

Manny,
"deflect instead to block whenever is possible because it is less stresfull for the arm."

Both work. I can deflect and use movement to get what or where I want or I can also hard block that arm and damage the joint. Different ; )

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

]Hard styles like karate and tkd are often criticized for being 'linear'. Most who frame this argument generally haven't thought it through however and it's an empty talking point IMO. What is a circle? It's just a series of lines circumscribed to make a circle, correct? You can't have a circle without a line, and so by extension in martial arts you can't have circular movement without linear motion. The two are indelibly linked.

It just so happens that hard styles generally start with 'hard' & straight line motions. Later as one advances, they learn how to use relaxed, whole body movement and along with muscular contraction/expansion (some call this breath control) to add potency to their counters along with curved or 'circular' movement.

Let me give an example of one of my kata-based training drills. Take a blocky white belt form like Pinan Shodan or since you're a TKD man pick Chon-Ji or Palgwe Il-Jang. We surely don't need instructions on how to practice the form in a powerful, linear fashion right? It's all about hip and waist turning and moving your body weight into each stance or block/punch.

How then to transmute the form into something else? Well, it starts with the mind and setting your practice goals as you run the kata. Don't think of the form as teaching you to turn to face an opponent to execute a forceful block and then a smashing 'one strike kill' punch. Think of each turn as an opportunity to perform a body change to avoid an attack. So you aren't trying to turn your hips into the block for maximum power - you're trying to turn with your physical core to change the angle YOU present to the attack, causing to miss, ideally by only an inch or so. The block is similarly transmuted; it becomes more of a relational guide for you, a way for you to connect and blend yourself with the attacker. You are not repelling the attacker with the block, instead you are trying to feel his energy and where he will seek to direct it next. And the counter punch when you perform should be with a smooth, whipping feeling coming out from your core and then recoil back again with a breathing in sensation.

As we practice in this manner with each segment of the form, we'll swiftly realize the embusen or floor pattern of the form is no longer a blocky, h-shape. It becomes rather more like a shaded circle.

[/FONT]I like adding actual attackers all around the student, so they get an opportunity to work off tangible motions. Try this out when you get a chance. I'd be interested to hear what your impressions of the drill are.

I enjoyed the post and the video that you posted. I share Dortiz' observations, however, I enjoyed the post. It definitely shows that much depth can be wrought from forms for those who make the effort.

Daniel

 

[Gorilla]

"Hard styles like karate and tkd are often criticized for being 'linear'." dancingalone

I have been one of those critics albeit from the Sport Side! Since the Sports Origins (Sport TKD/ Sport Karate) are based in each Martial Art if feel that my comments might have a place in this thread. My kids are currently training in both WTF TKD/Sport Karate. We are starting to use allot of lateral movement in our strategy against taller or stronger opponents.
I see no advantage to standing in front of an opponent who may have a size and strength advantage. We use speed, distance and elusiveness to frustrate and confuse an opponent. We borrow allot from boxing(Sugar Ray Leonard/Ali). Some have criticized this as not TKD.

I would appreciate your opinions!

 

[StudentCarl]

"Hard styles like karate and tkd are often criticized for being 'linear'." dancingalone

I have been one of those critics albeit from the Sport Side! Since the Sports Origins (Sport TKD/ Sport Karate) are based in each Martial Art if feel that my comments might have a place in this thread. My kids are currently training in both WTF TKD/Sport Karate. We are starting to use allot of lateral movement in our strategy against taller or stronger opponents.
I see no advantage to standing in front of an opponent who may have a size and strength advantage. We use speed, distance and elusiveness to frustrate and confuse an opponent. We borrow allot from boxing(Sugar Ray Leonard/Ali). Some have criticized this as not TKD.

I would appreciate your opinions!

To me this is TKD (from sport rather than traditional) and is smart fighting. I see the use of mobility as a vital skill that the sport side has nurtured. I'm unaware of any art that advocates using straight strength to straight strength, especially vs. bigger/taller opponents. It does fit well with a general maxim of fighting: "Position before submission." This doesn't just apply to groundwork--it applies to using checks, timing, and mobility to put yourself in the advantageous position. Skill in this area is more important, IMO, than having the fastest kick or punch.

Carl

 

[dancingalone]

"Hard styles like karate and tkd are often criticized for being 'linear'." dancingalone

I have been one of those critics albeit from the Sport Side! Since the Sports Origins (Sport TKD/ Sport Karate) are based in each Martial Art if feel that my comments might have a place in this thread. My kids are currently training in both WTF TKD/Sport Karate. We are starting to use allot of lateral movement in our strategy against taller or stronger opponents.
I see no advantage to standing in front of an opponent who may have a size and strength advantage. We use speed, distance and elusiveness to frustrate and confuse an opponent. We borrow allot from boxing(Sugar Ray Leonard/Ali). Some have criticized this as not TKD.

I would appreciate your opinions!

I'm not sure anyone would think the bold text is a good idea. Linearity refers to a preference for straight line techniques, for power over subtlety, for direct movement rather than component-based and multi-part movement

To help illustrate the idea, think of the basic 'step out to a 45 or 90 degree' direction to avoid an on-rusher. This is a fundamental concept taught in any karate or TKD school. Linear, you betcha. Effective? Surely, it can be.

 

[dancingalone]

Do you mean that the floor pattern actually becomes a circle? Or do you mean that the pattern stays basically the same but the movements the practitioner uses to trace the pattern have become "rounded" over time? Or the stepping itself has changed to be more "curvey"?

If you step forward as the pattern directs, yet in such a fashion that you are consciously avoiding an oncoming straight blow, the floor pattern naturally is altered in of itself. Gradually as the student becomes more efficient, likewise his stepping method itself is rounded off.

Consider just altering the first 90 degree turn into more of a 45 degree turn and how it affects everything else. Same thing with the 180 degree turns as they become more of a 130 degree turn.

 

[dancingalone]

Hmmm, Can you blend Hard and soft, you bet. But do each operate in a sort of set manner, yes.
I can slide off to the left with a block and in a soft circular manner pick up and circle in taking the balance. Hard style I drop into a stance and deliver a stronger set series of strikes or even also block grab. But here I tend to take a harder stance and push and strike differently.
I think hard/linear styles work great as do soft and yes they can blend but I DO think they have differnt techniques based on entry, stance, method etc. And to some may look the same yet to those that know they can see that same technique and how its being done very differently. Not bad but differently.
Again, you can have some blending but the Hardstyles have a way of operating as do the Soft.

Absolutely. We are products of our teachers and our systems. It should be no surprise that a student of a particular style will always tend to favor certain solutions given a particular problem to solve.

Yet I don't think the boundaries between hard and soft styles are always rigid and permanent. Some karate styles such as Okinawan Goju-ryu are very soft and circular at the higher levels of attainment. In fact, the harder a Goju stylist is, the chances are that he (or his teacher) has never penetrated to the higher teachings. The system is deliberately set up this way. I also study aikido, a so-called soft style. I was bemused to discover that some of the waza my karate teacher taught me are almost step-for-step the same as in Aikikai aikido.

Likewise I believe good tae kwon do should also have a degree of softness to it, even if the name does not outright suggest this dualism as Goju-ryu does (translated as Hard Soft Way). The goal to adding and practicing drills like the one I described in the OP isn't to alter tae kwon do into something that it is not. Instead I see it as a way to add balance early to the curriculum, exposing students to it in a formal way, rather than letting them figure it out on their own, years after first beginning study.

 

[dortiz]

Gotcha,
I guess I worry about what is the focus and at what point. A TKD arm bar executed works perfect. It still blocks and drops the person using hard linear lines. A HKD/Aikido version would block and create a circular force down almost a vortex. Two different ways to move and do the same technique and both work. I just think its awfully tough to get both right at the same time.
Now a Black Belt in Either style who has it down can then see the core technique done differently and then learn to do it in the new manner but its a lot for a color belt to take in while working on one style from either side of that fence.
Now if your style like Goju is to blur the lines then thats a whole new ball of wax but lets be honest its not TKD and its not Aikido its what you have found works and now want to teach. Not saying thats so bad either : )

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Gotcha,
Now if your style like Goju is to blur the lines then thats a whole new ball of wax but lets be honest its not TKD and its not Aikido its what you have found works and now want to teach. Not saying thats so bad either : )

Of course, now you are hitting on the question of what defines taekwondo. If it is a semi blanket term for Korean arts with a strong striking component, then why not?
Are the forms what define taekwondo? If so, then if he is teaching Chang Hon, Palgwe, or Taegeuk forms, then it would then be taekwondo.

Of course, the ATA founders created their own forms, yet nobody accuses the ATA of being not-taekwondo.

So if Dancing is teaching a circular taekwondo, is it not still taekwondo?

Daniel