Free lesson for striking with the body and parry

[JowGaWolf]

I was looking over some old video and think "man I need some new material" and I came across something that we often talk about here. "punching with the body" vs "punching only with the arms"

So I thought I would share one of my informal training sessions. This was an extra day session where I would practice on my own and just be available for anyone who showed up. So on this day (after hurting my back) I decided to cover the technique "Parry Punch"

Here's what the video covers and demonstrates
1. Correct way to parry (Meaning correct as in what I teach not as in the only way to do something).
2. Punching using the body (you'll get to see how effective it is)

One thing you'll see here is how difficult it is for some student to understand the concepts and then to apply the concepts. I spent 20 minutes trying to help them with, Parry, Punch, and using the body to hit. This is not the entire session. I didn't think anyone would be interested in the whole thing as it's an informal session. With some discussions. Nothing is staged. I simply put my phone against the window and went about my day.

 

[drop bear]

As they parry they are rotating. And because of that the opposite shoulder goes backwards.

So as they are punching they are not getting the pop you want.

I actually rotate the other way so the punching side is forwards. And you stay about square on.

So a boxers slip will put that parry punch side forwards. Which sets up the forwards momentum you were trying to get them to do.

So then you just add the parry counter punch and your guys will be knocking people's heads off.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

As they parry they are rotating. And because of that the opposite shoulder goes backwards.

The left parry, right punch is the 1st move of the 1st praying mantis form. Just from this move, you can tell that the power generation is not the trademark of the PM system. You are correct that to move your left arm to your right will cancel out the power that you try to generate with your right punch.

If you use left comb hair and right punch, you won't have this issue.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I actually rotate the other way so the punching side is forwards. And you stay about square on.

You mean rear hand parry instead of lead hand parry?

 

[Flying Crane]

I enjoyed watching your video. Would be fun to get together and share and compare methods. Look me up if you ever visit Northern California. You are on the east coast, yes? I haven’t been there in many years. Maybe someday.

By “using the body” you are stepping in with the punch, yes? Do you also use the body rotation method to punch with the body? We utilize that heavily, and when we step in we use it as a “charge punch” to drive in and overwhelm.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You are correct that to move your left arm to your right will cancel out the power that you try to generate with your right punch.

This is why I was trying to teach them to hit using their body. The basic movement in Jow Ga is shuffle movement and not step. Each shuffle is throwing the body weight forward or backwards. So that movement can be used to power punches from some unexpected positions. If the clip below, if he would shuffle forward then he wouldn't lose the power that you speak of.

This is more like our big wheel punches where the power flows in the same direction.

So then you just add the parry counter punch and your guys will be knocking people's heads off.

At 1:05 he misses the parry and almost runs into my fist because he's trying to parry across his body instead of using a parry that is more forward at 45 degree angle. His parry is trying to address the punch and not the mechanics of the punch. You have to play it in slow motion to see it. The best way I can describe it, is that if you and I are sparring. I don't want to parry your fist because it's too quick. The time to parry the fist is a very small window and by the time you react, you'll be "swatting at flies"

This is what I consider parrying the fist.

I want to parry closer to your elbow where the mechanics of your punch exist. This increased the time that I have to actually parry, because now I'm not watching for movement in the fist, I'm watching for movement in the mechanics of the punch at the elbow. The 45 degree parry puts all of your elbow movement within my range so I only need a slight adjustment to keep up with the movement of the elbow. If I parry your punch, then you can feint your punch and my parry will fall on emptiness. If I target the mechanics of that punch then feinting won't prevent me from pinning your arm because my parry is moving forward and not across my body. (Not sure if I'm describing a clear visual here)

There's a ton of things that this type of parry cancels out which makes it difficult for the opponent to throw that rear hand. It's also a more aggressive parry than what most people use. In the video you can hear me say that the parry is like punching with my palm

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I want to parry closer to your elbow where the mechanics of your punch exist.

The parry and wrist grabbing are very similar. But I prefer the wrist grabbing for the following reasons:

- My opponent can't borrow my parry force and change his straight punch into a hook punch.
- The wrist grabbing can temporary disable my opponent's punching ability.
- I can pull myself into my opponent if I borrow the counter force from the wrist grabbing.
- I can guide my opponent's leading arm to jam his own back arm.
- I can start to change the striking game into a wrestling game.
- ...

There are many advantage from the wrist grabbing that the parry doesn't have. Of course the wrist grabbing is much more difficult to achieve than just the simple parry.

 

[JowGaWolf]

By “using the body” you are stepping in with the punch, yes?

Correct. this allows me to deliver power quickly and at a shorter range without having to do a lot of punching movement. The key is to get the punch and the movement at the same time and to lock that punching arm right before it lands. If you don't then then it won't work. I'm not sure if you can tell, but at the 2:48 mark I get the technique wrong and I actually bounce off the bag. at the 2:48 mark. 2 things are actually happening. I get the technique wrong and the student moves into the punch and the combination of both bounces me off the bag. I make corrections afterwards and the technique starts to drive the power correctly.

Do you also use the body rotation method to punch with the body? We utilize that heavily, and when we step in we use it as a “charge punch” to drive in and overwhelm.

Yes. I think of it the same way "charge punch." With this parry punch, It's not a technique where I want to give my opponent a lot of day light. In application, I would still be moving towards my opponent, throwing other techniques, with the understanding that he will try to escape, or pivot to get away. I'm not worried about my opponent dropping down to take my legs because the technique is done when he's least able to structurally drop down and take my legs.

 

[JowGaWolf]

My opponent can't borrow my parry force and change his straight punch into a hook punch.

If you get him to commit to the straight punch and parry closer to the elbow then it won't change into a hook. It would be physically impossible to do so. But if you parry the fist then it can change into a uppercut or hook, or cross. He can feint a punch and your parry will fall upon emptiness. He can punch with the other hand as well.

I'm not saying that parrying the fist is bad, it just comes with some risks that the user should be aware of. And like you stated "Of course the wrist grabbing is much more difficult to achieve than just the simple parry." These students don't have the necessary strength for that. At this point I don't have it it either. I got slack with my conditioning for that.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

Parry and punch is a great combo i learn it when i was orange belt

 

[JowGaWolf]

Would be fun to get together and share and compare methods. Look me up if you ever visit Northern California. You are on the east coast, yes? I haven’t been there in many years. Maybe someday

I still have plans to get a chance to meet with people here. Corona got in my way. I'm so glad that I held off on that office space that I was going to get to open my own school. I was thinking how nice it would be to be able to get something that would be large enough to add a small bedroom with shower, that I could use to put up guests, if they would like to sleep at the school instead of a hotel. Not a total lost, I can now have better locations once a vaccine becomes available.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Parry and punch is a great combo i learn it when i was orange belt

yep. much better than Parry then punch. I learned that when I got hit in the face. I parried and my opponent punched me in the face. lol

 

[KenpoMaster805]

yep. much better than Parry then punch. I learned that when I got hit in the face. I parried and my opponent punched me in the face. lol

very funny lol you coulda hit him back

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you get him to commit to the straight punch and parry closer to the elbow then it won't change into a hook.

If your opponent rotates his arm the same direction as your parry arm does, more than 50% of the time, your parry may just miss and parry into the thin air.

IMO, parry is a great cheating game.

- I parry your arm,
- You rotate your arm to avoid my parry (or try to grab my wrist).
- I reverse my parry and wrap your arm.

When I apply my parry, I may not expect that my parry can work. But at least I can predict that your arm will rotate, and I can take advantage on that.

 

[Danny T]

Thank you for sharing @JowGaWolf
If I may...
The students are maintaining a slight right facing bladed position. Most likely due to that is their natural positioning within a left lead as well as they have their rear foot pointed 90 degrees outward preventing the hip and body from being able to rotate to more of a centered position. This is causing the right shoulder to remain back. It also appears their parry is happening by pushing with the left causing upper body rotation to the right again not allowing the right side to be in a more centered position. The mechanical alignment (structure) is off so power being generated by the body 'crashing' is greatly reduce in the punch contact. From what I can see in the video your rear foot is more forward pointing, your hip is rotated more toward center, and you are actually slipping your body slightly toward the left as well while the students aren't.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Thank you for sharing @JowGaWolf
If I may...
The students are maintaining a slight right facing bladed position. Most likely due to that is their natural positioning within a left lead as well as they have their rear foot pointed 90 degrees outward preventing the hip and body from being able to rotate to more of a centered position. This is causing the right shoulder to remain back. It also appears their parry is happening by pushing with the left causing upper body rotation to the right again not allowing the right side to be in a more centered position. The mechanical alignment (structure) is off so power being generated by the body 'crashing' is greatly reduce in the punch contact. From what I can see in the video your rear foot is more forward pointing, your hip is rotated more toward center, and you are actually slipping your body slightly toward the left as well while the students aren't.

Good observation. This is why I like video. I can see things that I wouldn't be able to see in person, and I can share with others who may see other opportunities and things that could be done. Me trying to explain in words what we see in video would be extremely difficult. There is just so many benefits.

The concept is simple, but as you have observed there are a lot of "working pieces." I don't teach these two anymore. I still talk to the lady from time to time. We call her Hollywood because that's what her sparring looks like. lol. She has a difficulty in removing the image of Hollywood fighting from real fighting. Nice person with a lot of passion for martial arts.

If you had to teach them, what do you think you would do to correct what they are doing?

 

[Danny T]

If you had to teach them, what do you think you would do to correct what they are doing?

I'd break down the movements or action you want into smaller segments or mini drills first. Then put them together segment by segment until the complete action is being performed.
For instance:
Drill 1. Stationary. The feeder punches and the student only parries maintaining the stance you want with the body position you want.
Drill 2. The feeder punches and the student parries and only steps into the position you are wanting again maintaining the stance you want along with the body positioning you want.
Drill 3. Back to Stationary. Student parries and punches with the final structure you want.
Drill 4. Putting it together. Student steps with parry and punch into the final structure you want.
Drill 5. Feeder is moving and Student moves with feeder responding to Feeders punch.

 

[drop bear]

You mean rear hand parry instead of lead hand parry?

No the same hand same parry everything. You are shaped up south paw to authodox but it doesn't make a huge difference.

But say from that stance I parry a jab with my left hand but I move my right shoulder forwards and lean to my left.

Where they are trying to parry with the left move their right shoulder backwards and then punch with the right hand and so working against themselves a bit.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Good observation. This is why I like video. I can see things that I wouldn't be able to see in person, and I can share with others who may see other opportunities and things that could be done. Me trying to explain in words what we see in video would be extremely difficult. There is just so many benefits.

The concept is simple, but as you have observed there are a lot of "working pieces." I don't teach these two anymore. I still talk to the lady from time to time. We call her Hollywood because that's what her sparring looks like. lol. She has a difficulty in removing the image of Hollywood fighting from real fighting. Nice person with a lot of passion for martial arts.

If you had to teach them, what do you think you would do to correct what they are doing?

This particular technique requires a type of structure which is tricky for beginners. As DB and Danny noted, the students are operating from a bladed structure and rotating in the direction of their parry, which totally kills the body connection and structure necessary to transmit power for the punch. If you were doing a parry followed by a punch, then it wouldn't be a problem because they could rotate back for the punch, fixing their structure and adding power. Alternately, they could just rotate into the punch to begin with, relying on head movement and a minimal parry for protection. \

What you're doing instead is operating from more of a square stance with a solid, somewhat forward projecting parry and a simultaneous punch that is largely dependent on the forward body motion for power This only works effectively if you have a good handle on body connection and structure. Otherwise either the parry, the punch, or both will leak power and not produce the desired results. I'd spend more time with the students making sure they could feel the structure necessary to transmit lines of force through the body with individual punches and blocks before trying to teach that particular method of simultaneous defense and attack.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you consider

- parry is compress (extend parry arm), and
- punch is release (extend punch arm),

you may want to keep parry and punch separately in order to generate the maximum punching power.

IMO, it's a trade off between power and speed.

PRO - You combine parry and punch into 1 move to gain speed.
CON - Your parry rotation is against your punch rotation and lose power.

In this clip, it's parry first and punch afterward.