Forms: technique or theatrics?

[oftheherd1]

I posted this before, but it seems appropriate to do so again, especially with what I have quoted above.

I used to teach a 4th Dan TKD practioner, teaching him Hapkido. There were several occassions, probably 4 or 5, when I would be teaching him a technique and he would stop and get a bemused look on his face. After a couple of times I kind of knew what was coming but I would ask.

He would then proceed to tell me in such and such a form, they were told to make a certain movement that made no sense. When it was questioned, he was usually told it was for artistic purposes (I can remember being told the same with some moves of some of the forms I learned when I briefly studied TKD). But he realized the technique I was teaching him at that point, was that 'artistic' move, with very slight variations. Now after many years, I can't tell you what form nor the exact move, but he was certain enough and with the experience to know.

So I wonder if the 'random twisting hand movements' might be grabs from the old Karate forms but the meanings have been lost? Apparently, at least some of the moves that defy an easy application may be so, because they have been changed to where if you don't in fact know the technique they desended from, you would assume they must have been just for 'art.'

 

[Makalakumu]

The following is an excerpt from my book, The Lost Art of Tang Soo Do.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Lost-Art-Tang-Soo/dp/0557150019

A sample of what Hwang Kee expected can be found in Soo Bahk Do (Tang Soo Do) Moo Duk Kwan Volume One. An excerpt can be found below.

“The elements that make up the character or personality of a form may be understood as follows:

Form Sequence – The proper and correct sequence of moves in a particular form.
Power Control – Command of the release, restraint and relaxation of explosive energy and focused power.
Tension and Relaxation – Master of breathing and timing in the accumulation and release of energy or power.
Speed and Rhythm Control – Coordination and patterning of the moves at rates appropriate to the sub-sequences within the form.
Direction of Movements – Certainty of balance and confidence of step in changing direction.
Spirit or Attitude – Evidence of a sense of calm and humility based on self-knowledge and dedication to the perfect form.
Power of Technique – Rigor and strength of moves especially evident in equal power of attack and defense.
Understanding Form Technique – Demonstration in the form that the sequence of moves has been internalized and flows with the naturalness and ease of reflex responses, that is, without the obvious intervention of conscious thought.
Distinctive Features of the Form – Evocation in the observer of a vidid awareness of the specific kinds of attack and of the number and direction of attackers for which a particular form is designed.
Perfect Finish – As additional evidence of concentration and control, the last move of the form ends at the starting point and then remains frozen or fixed there until signaled by the referee, judge or teacher.
Precision of Movements – Such accuracy in the execution of a move as reflects the finest logical coordination of balance, distance, power, ability and control.
Intentness – Direction and concentration of the entire attention upon points of power. The intent eyes communicate both a determination to defend against attacks and a predetermined plan or deliberate design for defense. Further, the eyes anticipate the intended direction of moves by quick shifts and then concentration of focus upon the point of power.

These twelve elements may be used as a basis for evaluating a form and for the study of its improved performance.”

It becomes evident that the applications of the forms were never something that Hwang Kee learned or taught. Most of the criteria used to judge the forms are superficial aesthetic features and the subsequent photo sequences describing moves and applications in the forms are the same unworkable sequences seen everywhere else.
The connection to real self defense technique is esoteric and nebulous. Hwang Kee further demonstrates what he taught with this excerpt from the same source above.

“Basic to all martial arts is this: After the basic movements are learned they are applied to and transformed in forms. As established, traditional and clearly defined sets of steps, jumps, blocks, kicks, punches, and thrusts, each of the forms in our art has a unity and purpose.
Basic forms consist of one block, one thrust or strike and turns patterned to develop control, rhythm, power and speed in the earth integration of basic techniques. As they progress, the forms become increasingly complex in the variety, combinations and sequence of blocks, kicks, thrusts, jumps and turns. One advanced form may take years of daily practice and intense concentration to master. Perfect form, exquisite fusing of mind and body, is a high art and a thing of beauty. The form is not, however, the whole art in itself.”

Upon observation, it is common in Korean forms of karate to view forms purely for their aesthetic value. The combative elements of the forms are either not existent or not stressed. Regardless, no organization, including the Moo Duk Kwan, has any formalized components that utilize form sequences for self defense training.

This is why I wanted to start the following organization. Tang Soo Do should have some group that is dedicated to breaking down the kata and making them more than theatrics.

http://www.makalakula.com/

Tang Soo Do is a form of karate that was exported to Korea in the 1930s. Tang translates to China, referring specifically to the Tang Dynasty. Soo translates to hand. Tang Soo or China Hand is the old Okinawan name for Kara Te, which also mean China Hand, before the name was changed to Empty Hand in the 1930s. Tang Soo Do is founded on the practice of the traditional forms that were exported from Okinawa to Japan. One branch of Tang Soo Do evolved into what is called Taekwondo. Another branch evolved to form a new martial art that draws deeply on Chinese roots. It is called Soo Bahk Do. Some of the branches of Tang Soo Do have changed little since they first came to Korea. Other branches have explored the traditional roots of how forms were learned and practiced and have evolved.

Makalakula Tang Soo Do is an approach to the art of Tang Soo Do that stresses the study of traditional forms. Makalakula Tang Soo Do is a curriculum that is designed to give students the tools to understand and practice all aspects of the forms. Makalakula students will practice striking, throwing, joint locking, pressure points, weapons, meditation, and healing techniques. Makalakula students will also learn how all of the above relate to the forms.

As time marches on and I continue producing media, I think we have an opportunity to evolve this martial art.

 

[OldKarateGuy]

Ha! I get that about musical kata. However, I think competition is very helpful sometimes. Karateka get to show each other in a competitive forum various ways to demonstrate ability. When I watch kata competition, invariably, I learn something worthwhile by watching accomplished martial artists. I think too it's good motivation for those who are inclined to find value in placement at tournaments. I may not be all that interested myself, but I don't disparage those who do. And truthfully, I have competed a bit over the years. I guess I can be smug about tournaments' (lack of) relative value, but I like having those reminders of personal high finishes too.

 

[K-man]

Ha! I get that about musical kata. However, I think competition is very helpful sometimes. Karateka get to show each other in a competitive forum various ways to demonstrate ability. When I watch kata competition, invariably, I learn something worthwhile by watching accomplished martial artists. I think too it's good motivation for those who are inclined to find value in placement at tournaments. I may not be all that interested myself, but I don't disparage those who do. And truthfully, I have competed a bit over the years. I guess I can be smug about tournaments' (lack of) relative value, but I like having those reminders of personal high finishes too.

Apart from the fact that some people can perform a kata in a perfect manner, perfect being in the eye of the beholder (judges), just what 'ability' can be demonstrated? :asian:

 

[OldKarateGuy]

Stance, power delivery, balance, speed, timing...uh, footwork...sure I'm missing something, but these are starters.

 

[K-man]

Stance, power delivery, balance, speed, timing...uh, footwork...sure I'm missing something, but these are starters.

You are also describing a good dancer or a good runner. None of those demonstrate your ability as a street fighter. Have a look at some of the old Japanese guys doing kata. They would be laughed at by the pretty boys today. Competition has totally changed the landscape. That's why I am no longer interested in competition. It has absolutely nothing to do with RBSD. That's why we have threads questioning the effectiveness of karate for self defence. :asian:

 

[OldKarateGuy]

Well, I don't disagree re: the deleterious effect competition has had generally on martial arts. Watching the Olympic Judo was pretty sad, for instance, and the WKF kata competition is somehow like watching a caricature of real kata. The performers may or may excel at self defense. You perhaps cannot tell from watching their kata. But I don't dismiss all kata done at comeptition. Here's a video of a kata that can't be seen as anything but pretty powerful I think, and I also think this particular dude is some kind of fighter. I think we could probably see the connection. But we can disagree. I personally still think there is value in kata and kata competition, although I sometimes despair that the value will all be lost if we don't arrest this deteroriation of kata into gymnastics and theater.

 

[K-man]

Well, I don't disagree re: the deleterious effect competition has had generally on martial arts. Watching the Olympic Judo was pretty sad, for instance, and the WKF kata competition is somehow like watching a caricature of real kata. The performers may or may excel at self defense. You perhaps cannot tell from watching their kata.

That's exactly what I mean.

But I don't dismiss all kata done at comeptition. Here's a video of a kata that can't be seen as anything but pretty powerful I think, and I also think this particular dude is some kind of fighter. I think we could probably see the connection. But we can disagree. I personally still think there is value in kata and kata competition, although I sometimes despair that the value will all be lost if we don't arrest this deteroriation of kata into gymnastics and theater.

I don't disagree at all. I wish I could perform kata much better than I do but that ain't gunna happen any time soon. But the smartest, snappiest kata in the world isn't going to turn anyone into a good fighter. Adding hand flourishes and other pretty moves does nothing to impress either. I'm not saying there is no value in kata competition and of course kata to me is karate. Without kata you simply don't have karate. Some people call it 'free style' karate but I would prefer they just called it freestyle fighting to avoid confusion.

In this video go to 5.45 and watch Gogen Yamaguchi performing the Goju Kai version of Suparinpei. It wouldn't get past the first round of a kata competition but he is one guy I wouldn't want to upset in a back alley.

[video]http://www.tubesfan.com/watch/gogen-yamaguchi-ikga5-wmv[/video]

I would love to have some video from youtube of Masaji Taira performing kata to post for you to see an incredible difference. His kata wouldn't get far in competition either but for raw power and kime I have never seen better. While there are people like Taira around the value of kata will never be lost and he is passing it on to the next generation in a form we never even knew existed. Just don't expect to see it coming to a competition near you. :asian:

 

[chodancandidate]

I used to go to a tournament where they were smart enough to segregate the "traditional" forms from the "showing-off, flipping, gymnastic" type forms. In my judging experiences, I have noticed primarily that judges are impressed by flair, even in a traditional forms setting. I don't think it's right, but people add flips and fancy handwork to impress the judges, it doesn't matter how practical it is or not. In my school's tournament, next year we will be adding a separate competition called "team forms" where the competitors will come up and demonstrate a form and a choreographed fight scene utilizing bunkai techniques from the form just demonstrated.

These fancy flipping forms that people do in tournaments that have no practical purpose in reality are just a show of how some instructors and practitioners think Martial Arts and Dancing/Gymnastics/Acrobatics are the same thing. I hate it, and I do not award people gold medals when they do it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The striking art can borrow the grappling art training model as well. I assume we are talking about "solo" training (training partner is not available) here. I have always believed that the best solo training is the partner training without partner. This way, your solo training can be mapped into combat without any modification.

In the following 2 clips (from the grappling art), you can see that your body will move exactly the same way whether you are doing partner training or solo training.

partner drill:

solo drill:

 

[Hyoho]

Well after years of watching and taking part in Embu in Japan. Kata for gradings etc. One really has to stifle a yawn a lot of the time. Getting really annoyed at students who wipe the floor with others but decide to do kata a week before Sandan!

What is sadly missing from most is 'creative visualization'. You watch them doing waza/kata but... there is no one there! And "this" you know will be missing from their daily practice. The ability to learn from a teacher, go off to use that knowledge and be able to improve without a partner.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

How about screaming at the panel, "JUDGES, MY NAME IS..." blah blah blah. Ki-ahps that went on...and on and on, at about a bazillion decibels, and sounded like the sound track to Jurassic Park.

This...so much this...in ITF tournaments, forms competitors are supposed to follow correct protocol when entering and exiting the ring, but that protocol simply consists of: (1) Walk to the center of the edge of the ring, facing the judges, stand at attention, bow, and say "Tang Soo!" (2) Take a step or two inside the ring, bow, say "Tang Soo!" (3) Choon bee. Say the name of your form loudly and clearly. (4) The head judge nods, and you begin. That's all that's necessary. Show respect for entering the ring, let me know what you're going to do, and do it.

There are so many schools, though, that apparently teach their students to go right up to the judges and shout "Judges, my name is Joe Schmoe, I study at the XYZ School, under Master So-and So, with your permission may I perform [form name]!!!!" There is even one school (not TSD...I believe they are either TKD or karate) that has their students walk in, go into a deep horse stance, with their arms down at their sides (almost a little form in itself in the execution of it) before shouting all this. Needless to say, it never impresses me when I am judging. I don't care who you are, what school you're from, or who your instructor is. None of that factors into your score. The only thing that matters is how you do the form.

With that said, I will say one thing re: judging on proper stances. One thing I was instructed early on is that, unless it is a tournament solely of ITF students (and even then, since some schools are newer to the federation), I wasn't supposed to judge on whether the technique was "correct" or not, insofar as it was how I learned to do the form. Each style will have its variations, each school its peccadillos and peculiarities and differing points of focus for the moves. For instance, it would be improper of me to say, watching a TKD practitioner perform taeguk il jang, "His stance is nowhere near low enough. That's a bad front stance," when in reality it may be a perfectly acceptible, even proficient, walking stance according to the style. What I will judge on, though, is how the student moves. Even if I don't know anything about the form, I can tell if the performer has balance, speed control, power control, focus of sight, cheong shin, etc. The cheong shin aspect plays a bigger part when judging the younger ones, of course...often it's not very fair to look for inordinate amounts of coordination in them, but if I see confidence and purpose in them, that gets more points than someone who whispers and shuffles through the form.

...on a complete other note, show of hands if you've been a forms judge for 5-year old white/yellow belts? Anyone had the experience where the kid will get haphazardly to the end of gicho hyung il bu, then start to go down the center again, so you have to stop him? []