FMA MCDOJO now i have seen it all

[thekuntawman]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons


I would honestly like to hear what thekuntawman has to saw about this subject. Is training in the USA worth while? Does it have value? Or can you only get the proper FMA training in the PI?

:asian:

of course i believe training in the US has value. i just dont like the lack of competititon in the FMA community, and the way it is so easy to get a "certification"/black belt/instructor's certificate/etc.

i talk about how its done in the PI so much, because i see a benefit in how things are done back home over how things are done here. even though people are learning to clack sticks ("bang sticks" as everyone likes to say it) and perform techniques, just as well as filipinos, as a matter of fact, better--what FMA students in the west are missing is the "fighter element", or "tough guy mentality". whether you like it or not, the tough-guy attitude is what most of your filipino masters had, and if it wasnt for that, you would not have the fighting style you have today. the old men, looked down on each other, they compared themself to one another, they looked at the other guy and said "his technique wont work on me..." people were competitive to each other, and this is why, only the fighters carried on the styles, and the passive people did not get noticed.

instead, here, in my opinion, people are afraid of confrontation and instead of facing it, they get mad or avoid it and hide behind organizations and ridicule of the one who is confrontational. like moromoro's challenge. to you guys he seems ridiculous. but to a real philippine martial arts community, the people would be waiting to see the outcome, then others would want to challenge the winner. not to "shut him up", but to see if you can beat him to.

how many times did you hear a filipino master say, i cant speak for his fighting ability , but i like/dislike him, or people i know say he can/cannot fight. here in the west, people do not worry about losing face by speaking for a person, even if he is a friend, who turned out he aint that good. in the philippines, fighting ability is respected, no matter if you think the guy is an asshold or not. here, your rank and who you study with or what you have done speaks for you. arrogance or cockiness is a sign of either a fool, or a man who can back his words, and the members of that community will not waste time to find out which one he is.

this is why many filipinos cannot understand the rank issue. to us, what difference does your degree make, i think i can beat you. in the west, they want to see progression, or to add to a resume for what he has achieved.

filipinos are simple people, and your own martial arts ability is judged by your fighting ability. we will respect almost any fight, because they always will have rules (among martial artists), so there is no excuse not to fight. in the west they have excuses (excuse me, "reasons") why the fighting is not "real enough", which to many of us is a sign of weakness. filipinos know that we too have jobs on monday, but i dont consider that i might get a broken arm (which almost never happens). we know the tournament is not a streetfight, but a weak man still cant do it, and its the closest safetest way we have to test ourself against another fighter. ranks dont bet us hard, we only care for the bragging rights to say i beat that guy. we are also not afraid of a loss or an injury. our skin is thick, so words might get a reaction but we welcome a good argument, surely some of you have seen this by now.

so my criticism of western FMA is not an insult, only a wish to see it become more like our own.

by the way my friend dexter labonog will be promoting a eskrima tournament as part of the lee-jet don kung fu tournament this month in sacramento. i was suppose to help him but i had an emergency to take me out of town (i am not in sacramento). i would like to invite everyone who has fighters to bring them, and he told me he need referees and judges. you can find his site at (i think) www.bahalana.com

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Pappy Geo
Wow,

Been gone on vacation for 10 days and I find this rampant thread when I get back. I hate jumping in here as it really isn't any of my business, but I find this kid offensive and an instigator. Apparently he is just looking for attention and is getting it.

It doesn't matter if Datu Tim is a 6th or 7th degree, he is a Datu, which is outside the belt rankings and is considered rank of the best.

Does this kid share his art? Travel extensively around the world teaching at seminars, camps, does he have his own organization of students? Has he studied the art for 20 years? What gives him the right to challenge not just Datu Tim but any of us. I bet his instructors, if they knew what he was up to would be embarrassed and get rid of him, I know Datu Worden would immediately. Datu Tim you have no need to prove anything to this kid, he is so junior he is not worthy of your time. In fact you will only give him bragging rights to say he has challenged a American Datu. He is totally anti-American and an apparent racist.

This kid is what we call out here in the Northwest a piss-ant and is not worthy of responding to his disrespectful remarks.

He has baited with this thread and has hooked the attention he is looking for. I would just consider him a perverted piss-ant and ignore him, even delete him off this thread and ban him from this forum as he never has contributed anything constructive only destructive controversy. He has nothing to offer.

Perspective from a Grandfather,

Grandpappy Geo,

I like what you have said here. Thank you for your opinion.

Tim, should not have to go out of his way to prove anything. If Terry shows up where Datu Tim Hartman is at and then they proceed, then that is lfe.

:asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

thekuntawman,

Thank you for your reply.

Originally posted by thekuntawman
of course i believe training in the US has value. i just don’t like the lack of competition in the FMA community, and the way it is so easy to get a "certification"/black belt/instructor's certificate/etc.

I can respect this. As stated before you have a problem with the ranking system. I study two FMA's, one has rank the other does not. In each system I respect the way it was taught to me. I do not try to change it, nor do I critique the one over the other. Yet, this is me and I understand that others approach things differently.

Originally posted by thekuntawman
i talk about how its done in the PI so much, because i see a benefit in how things are done back home over how things are done here. even though people are learning to clack sticks ("bang sticks" as everyone likes to say it) and perform techniques, just as well as Filipinos, as a matter of fact, better--what FMA students in the west are missing is the "fighter element", or "tough guy mentality". whether you like it or not, the tough-guy attitude is what most of your Filipino masters had, and if it wasn’t for that, you would not have the fighting style you have today. the old men, looked down on each other, they compared themselves to one another, they looked at the other guy and said "his technique wont work on me..." people were competitive to each other, and this is why, only the fighters carried on the styles, and the passive people did not get noticed.

In The PI, well the impression I used to have was that it was the old west, and every one ran around with a cane on the shoulder and a Machete on their belt, and duels happened every five minutes, with people knocked out and dead all the time. Yet, when I have talked to GM Remy Presas and Manong (GM) Ted Buot, they both have commented that contacted occurred, yet it was not something that happened just because. GM RP told me that he had to have the influence of local or regional people to avoid being tracked down and or ganged up on if he beat a local champion. I have also been told by Manong Buot that people went to jail for the fighting and for the accidental or intentional death's of people that jumped them, or they fought. So, when I hear about how tough it was in the PI, and yet, two respected top level Martial Artist, tell me that it was not a common place. Yes people would meet and or have a dispute, yet it was not every day.

As to the attitude, I can understand that being able to back up your knowledge is a good thing. I have never had a problem doing this. What I have problems with are the people that put on soooooooo much armor that hey feel nothing of the impacts. Believe me the well placed impact would slow most people down and stop the wild barrage or attacks with little technique. Or those that make rules of no disarms and no kicks or sweeps, or grappling or only shots to the body and the back is not a target. This turns it into an upper body targeting contest, and believe me when people get frustrated they close to stop the beating. If you can then take them down and or take them out it settles it.

Yet, the attitude is fine in certain degrees and in certain places. I respect your desire to add this I the USA FMA culture.

Originally posted by thekuntawman
instead, here, in my opinion, people are afraid of confrontation and instead of facing it, they get mad or avoid it and hide behind organizations and ridicule of the one who is confrontational. like moromoro's challenge. to you guys he seems ridiculous. but to a real Philippine martial arts community, the people would be waiting to see the outcome, then others would want to challenge the winner. not to "shut him up", but to see if you can beat him to.

Yes, there will always be people unwilling to put up or shut up. I am waiting to see the outcome, I just hope Terry does not back out and insist upon the tournament and his system's rules. Why not let them just settle it? To me it sounds like Terry the one attacking, is externalizing his own problems onto others. Just my opinion.

Originally posted by thekuntawman
how many times did you hear a Filipino master say, i cant speak for his fighting ability , but i like/dislike him, or people i know say he can/cannot fight. here in the west, people do not worry about losing face by speaking for a person, even if he is a friend, who turned out he ain’t that good. in the Philippines, fighting ability is respected, no matter if you think the guy is an asshold or not. here, your rank and who you study with or what you have done speaks for you. arrogance or cockiness is a sign of either a fool, or a man who can back his words, and the members of that community will not waste time to find out which one he is.

I have not had the privilege to travel within the Filipino Community to hear many masters say anything.

I remember many a time, my local instructors and my fellow students and training partners where asked to leave a GM R Presas event. OH, GM R Presas would come and see us, and train us, and we could go else where, but not always be welcome at other clubs, because of our attitudes and or confidence to show it works to the unbelievers.

Now in any culture in any art there will be frauds. There will be people who do not back themselves up. I take exception to the broad statements that have been made that imply or state that all USA FMA practitioners are weak and or unable to defend themselves. This is my major problem with this topic. If anyone has specifics list them, or say in my experience, do not say things like ALL FMA IN THE USA . . . . And Yes, I say this because I believe I can back up what I know.

Originally posted by thekuntawman
this is why many Filipinos cannot understand the rank issue. to us, what difference does your degree make, i think i can beat you. in the west, they want to see progression, or to add to a resume for what he has achieved.

Yes Many Filipino's cannot understand the rank issue. Yet I have read and been told, that many of the Filipino's Masters also went out and learned a Japanese or Korean Art to gain rank and the title of Master to open their school as a license Master in the PI. You, see this an example of it happening also in the PI by the Filipino's. So, yes some cannot understand, yet from the 1950's to present, I believe this is what happened. So, if people were to comment on this, such as Terry's post about his instructors about being upset with the Cebu Clubs. Unfortunately Terry left it blank as to why, it would have been nice to know the issue. Or is that they are jealous of their success and reputation? and want a piece of the pie for themselves? I do not know.

Originally posted by thekuntawman
Filipinos are simple people, and your own martial arts ability is judged by your fighting ability. we will respect almost any fight, because they always will have rules (among martial artists), so there is no excuse not to fight. in the west they have excuses (excuse me, "reasons") why the fighting is not "real enough", which to many of us is a sign of weakness. Filipinos know that we too have jobs on Monday, but i don’t consider that i might get a broken arm (which almost never happens). we know the tournament is not a streetfight, but a weak man still cant do it, and its the closest safest way we have to test ourself against another fighter. ranks don’t bet us hard, we only care for the bragging rights to say i beat that guy. we are also not afraid of a loss or an injury. our skin is thick, so words might get a reaction but we welcome a good argument, surely some of you have seen this by now.

A simple fight, such as once the guys goes down do not follow, yet you are able to put them there. Or, once blood is drawn or bones broken then is halt is called to access the damage and if the fight can continue. I respect this. Yet, see above for my concerns.

Originally posted by thekuntawman
so my criticism of western FMA is not an insult, only a wish to see it become more like our own.
. . .

I have no issues with this wish and even respect it. We may just differ on our approaches
:asian:

 

[Mao]

We live in a pretty litigeous society, so, it would not be too prudent to just call out and throttle anyone who you think your better than or just have an ax to grind with. Our U.S. prisons are full of people who have done just that. As for the U.S. being more like the PI, I, for one, happen to like the U.S. method. How many other peoples have taken up Western boxing? That is not to say that we, or any other culture for that matter, couldn't use some tweeking her and there, now and then. I don't think that we should "become" more like someone else. We are distinctly AMERICAN. I am proud of that and many other cultures migrate here for a reason. Nuff ranting.
:asian:
Mao

 

[bloodwood]

Very nicely stated. :asian:

 

[thekuntawman]

let me re-phrase.

i would like to american FMA-artists, practice more the philosophy and culture of the art, instead of just techniques. only a few people know it, but your technique means very little in application without the philosophy and mental attitude they are designed to be with. if only technique alone was needed, we could all learn from books and video without the teachers.

one example is level of aggression. many of the techniques in the arts, like passing a stick after you stop it, requires a certain type of confidence and a lack of fear of getting hit. your agression level is required to be able to have these things. where someone who thinks only of the movement, for example passing a stick in a drill, will not be able to apply the pass against a full power hit. just by learning the movement alone, and saying you cant get hit because you have to go to work on monday, you will not learn to apply this technique.

another is loyalty to training. many people believe they can pick and choose from this art and that art, to make there own. but many of the things in the arts you learn cannot be applied unless you learn the other parts. an impatient person will not be able to know what he needs to know and have, and he will rely on his limited amount of knowledge in that system to decide what he needed or what he can throw away. the result? a teacher of system X, who also teaches system Y and Z, but he have only a beginner's knowledge of y and z. so who loses out? the instructor, who doesnt know as much as he thinks, the student who either puts his faith in incomplete knowledge or decides he doesnt like something that might turn out to be good.

one ecample of this, when was the last time you saw somebody who takes 6 months or longer to teach abaniko technique? most people, the abaniko is no more than 6 or 8 hits, and then some drills. to many older masters, they can teach you for 6 months to fight only with the abaniko technique (or style of fighting).

 

[thekuntawman]

sorry i had to go, what i was trying to say in my last example, is that in loyalty to training, you should be dedicated to learning at least the foundation of the art, and let the TEACHER decide when that is, before you can really absorb it into your own knowledge. you can learn maybe even 10 styles, but you will need at least a year of training to get the foundation, or more, if thats is what the teacher requires.

to many people they believe the "instant learning" refers to only two or three lessons. i consider if somebody leaves before the teacher says you have learned his foundation, wants "instant learning", and that can be up to a year. i have lost a lot of students who say my art is "not what they wanted" and said to a friend (who is another teacher), he wasnt teaching me much. in my area, i have a few friends who teach the FMA, and years ago, i would see the same students come through my doors for a few months, and then theirs. because of no commitment, they havent learned nothing from any of us. now i, like my brother, do not accept students who school hop any more.

i forgot the point i wanted to make, so i will post again.

 

[moromoro]

hi

I think the tournament idea and having Tim pay for the privilege to fight Terry is very hypocritical.

Question 1: Who was concerned about commericialism in the first place?

Question 2, will there be any money generated from the tournament? Isn't that commercialism.

no money will be made from this tournament it will be an invitational you dont have to pay any money nor will the tournament give you money, this is going back to the old school.

Question 3: Who is concerned about fighting for money?

i suggest you ask tim, he has said he does not fight for free, this is just another excuse to hide.

It doesn't matter if Datu Tim is a 6th or 7th degree, he is a Datu, which is outside the belt rankings and is considered rank of the best.

you U.S folk dont seem to get it, try using that term DATU in the philippines it means notthing to us.... it has no place in the FMA... that type of rank has no place in the FMA...

Actually those in the PI were the ones who missed out on learning from one of the best to ever pick up a stick. Location doesn't matter, it's who was doing the teaching, and for us here in the USA, it was Professor Remy Presas, for the last 20 years or better. He was the best of the best and he chose to do it here.

first of all i respect the prof (RIP) a good friend of mine learnt from him in college in the 70's......... this is not my opinion but in cebu modern arnis is not tought of highly......

. I am waiting to see the outcome, I just hope Terry does not back out and insist upon the tournament and his system's rules. Why not let them just settle it? To me it sounds like Terry the one attacking, is externalizing his own problems onto others. Just my opinion.

you dont seem to undestand the reason for this tournament, many arts there in cebu have been claiming to be the best this is a test to put up or shut up.. also there will be certain rules (notthing to major) (just to make sure folks like tim dont result to biting or eye gauging) it will have to be oked by the local authorities as well.....


hi dan, ive been very busy lately i did not recieve your private email, could you try sending it again...


thanks

terry

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Are they going to where helmets in the tournament? The reason I ask is that I saw on a site from the PI sparring with no body armor but they still wore helmets.

 

[Pappy Geo]

you U.S folk dont seem to get it, try using that term DATU in the philippines it means notthing to us.... it has no place in the FMA... that type of rank has no place in the FMA...

That is contary to what the Fillipinos I know think, like Roland Dantes(movie star, Director for the (Phillipino) national Arnis org and director on the Phillipino Olympic committe) , Rodel Dagooc, the Presas family, Datu Shishir Inocalla. You are definately are outside the Arnis mainstream. I am not going to debate you as you are disrepectful kid and about to get spanked by your seniors in the art if you actualy do show and cause trouble.

Granpappy Geo

 

[thekuntawman]

datu is not a term used in the martial arts in the philippines. remy presas, i think is the only one who gives those titles. i know that leo gaje gives the titles "tuhan", but that is also not a filipino martial arts title except for in there own styles.

actually most filipino teachers do not use a title for themself, except maybe a family title, and the ones who do will use english word, like master or grandmaster (great granmaster, supreme great grandmaster....filipino mcdojo . )

and of course people wear helmets. it would be stupid to do head hitting without it. but, many people do sparring without it, but people respect each other to not try and crack somebody's skull. much of the helmet wearers do not use the jackets, and allow hitting to the thighs. and believe me, you DO have to be tough to spar that way.

 

[moromoro]

That is contary to what the Fillipinos I know think, like Roland Dantes(movie star, Director for the (Phillipino) national Arnis org and director on the Phillipino Olympic committe) , Rodel Dagooc, the Presas family, Datu Shishir Inocalla

mmm, something ridiculous about your statement GEO, all these guys are modern arnis practitioners,

please read and learn from the kuntawmans post as this is the truth about such titiles.....

please know what you are talking about before you post you only make yourself look stupid. (GEO)

Are they going to where helmets in the tournament? The reason I ask is that I saw on a site from the PI sparring with no body armor but they still wore helmets.

gm epping attilo wanted it with no helmets, even Gm Navarro still does not know what the deal will be, everything will try to be finalised by december this year.


thanks

terry

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by thekuntawman
much of the helmet wearers do not use the jackets, and allow hitting to the thighs. and believe me, you DO have to be tough to spar that way.

Been there, done that.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Kuntawman -
Excellent posts stating your point of view. Very well stated, both of them.

Terry,
Email me at [email protected] and then I'll have your address and then we can converse more off the forum.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[moromoro]

Dan

i will send you an email tonight or tommorrow i been very busy lately......

thanks

terry

 

[Black Grass]

Originally posted by moromoro

you U.S folk dont seem to get it, try using that term DATU in the philippines it means notthing to us.... it has no place in the FMA... that type of rank has no place in the FMA...

first of all i respect the prof (RIP) a good friend of mine learnt from him in college in the 70's......... this is not my opinion but in cebu modern arnis is not tought of highly......

Terry,

If you respected the Prof. then you should respect his ranking system. He was the one that came up with the whole Datu thing. I'm not saying you have to agree with it and you can even think its silly. But when it comes down to it what does it matter if Modern Arnis uses the term datu.

If the 6 datu's in modern arnis went around and insisted they be called that well thats another issue. My uncle in a true datu in the Bukidnon tribe and no one calls him that.

To Tim Hartman's credit when I first met him back in 95 he introduce himself simply as Tim not Guro Tim or Master Tim. He was already at this point high level BB in modern arnis (5th dan I think). I highly doubt when he goes to the Philippinrs he is going to ask everyone to address him as Datu.

As for Modern Arnis not being well respected in Cebu I would agree. But then in the FMA in general in the Phillipines most style do not respect each other.

Vince
aka Black Grass

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Well said. :asian:

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by arnisador
This is a no-win situation. To find someone higher than 6th degree in Modern Arnis one pretty much has to go to the Phil. But back there the form of Modern Arnis they're doing is at the least a different 'dialect' and nearly qualifies as a different art--the Prof. changed it so much here in the U.S. So, looking within the art is tough--esp. when you consider that Mr. Hartman is one of the datus of the art, which was supposed to be a sign of leadership within the art that was in some sense 'beyond' rank.

Dr. Gyi was close to the Prof. and was explicitly asked by the Prof. to help the Prof.'s students. Mr. Jornales is a Modern Arnis datu and a FMA grandmaster. Their endorsement seems relevant to me.

But the promotion is from the board. This is the Kenpo model, which again seems rather relevant to me--several Kenpoka were promoted in this manner in the wake of the problems that beset Kenpo after the passing of Ed Parker. Mr. Hartman had been close to the Kenpo community for years. He sought the counsel of Huk Planas in particular.

There was no winning on this one. There was no ideal way to proceed.

I have read through ALL 10 pages of this thread. Some good points were raised and there was a lot of cross-talking as well.

You are correct Arnisador:

"This is a no-win situation. To find someone higher than 6th degree in Modern Arnis one pretty much has to go to the Phil. But back there the form of Modern Arnis they're doing is at the least a different 'dialect' and nearly qualifies as a different art..."

This is a potential "no wiln" situation. Dr. Gyi is not a FMA player, but my response to that is SO WHAT? Does that mean that he is unable to recognize a good martial artists when he sees one? I think not. The objector drops any mention of GM Ric Jornales once his name is brought forward - that is not a fair or legitimate thing to do given the questions raised.

Part of this problem is the result of a failure on the part of the Advisory Board to include the names of the two GMs right from the begining when the announcement was first made. Both of these men have known Tim Hartman for some time, with GM Jornales' contact going back to at least 1988, that I am aware of. Therefore it is possible for him to have an appriciation for Tim Hartman's development over an extended period of time.

There are clearly differences between what is practiced in the Philippines and the USA/Canada and Europe in terms of Modern Arnis. However that does not mean that someone trained in one region is unable to recognize what someone is doing who trained in another region. Dieter Knuttel went to the Philippines and was promoted by the 8th degree people there. Obviously they saw things that they deemed appropriate to raise his ranking to 7th degree.

My solution to this promotional problem for at least the short term is to develop promotional boards made up of Senior Masters, Datus, MoTTs and System Chief Instructors, for the express purpose of promoting people who are qualifed. That is what I am working on for the Modern Arnis Symposium in Buffalo this coming July. Most of the Senior people attending are in favor of doing that and I will be making the final announcement on the plan next week.

Such a board will preclude any need for students to get involved in the promotion of their individual instructors. Appearence and substance are of equal importance when promotions are being considered and made.

Skill is the best indicator of rank, however it would be entirely ridiculous to believe that all promotions in Modern Arnis under the late professor Presas were only and always skill based. That is part of the reason that I first proposed to host the Symposium. There was a lot of talking, sniping and broad claims being made. The Symposium is one way to find out who in fact has the skills to back up the claims of rank and title.

I am satisfied that the people who will be instructing at the Symposium are AMONG the best in the Modern Arnis. NOT ALL of the BEST instructors are on the current program - that is the
way it is and so be it. I encourage everyone who can to attend the Symposium and be an active participant. Then it will be possible to speak from a position of strength based on first hand knowledge.

No one is in a position of knowing all of the senior people in Modern Arnis. The Symposium gives us a chance to meet and train with a few of these people in a single setting.

If anyone would like more information, just write me at:
[email protected]

It will be interesting to me to see how many people take a pro-active position and how many just continue to snipe. How many instructors will attend and encourage their students to do the same thing? The Symposium is a learning opportunity, but some people will choose to avoid attending because what they might see and experience could be diffenent from their expectations and biases.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[bloodwood]

Promotions in Modern Arnis were given to members of the IMAF. They were given these promotions, for what ever reason, to show their advancement in the Organization, not arnis in general. As in all other martial arts, promotion are done within the different organizations not in general, say for all the Kenpo groups to recognize all kempo promotions.

So what you are saying is that you and presenters at the symposium will set the standards for rank promotions in Modern Arnis, without the need for being associated with any organization. What will the certificates say at the top? Who will recognize these promotions? Datu Hartman was promoted within his organization and Dieter was promoted by high ranking old timers in the PI. If they were to test under the guidelines you are stating they still woud be getting promoted by those of lesser rank. So it would be no different than Datu Hartman's promotion except it would be done by the no name promotion board and not an organizational thing.

Personally I feel that if you want to get promoted, become part of any one of the different Modern Arnis organizations out there, it doesn't matter which one, and be a productive member that supports and helps the group to prosper.
Promotion should be for skill and for dedication to your chosen group.
Not just grab the promotion and run.

And just so you know, I am NOT dissing the symposium. This is not about the symposium. My comments are only on the way of doing these promotions. I think the symposium is a great idea and I hope it goes well.

bloodwood

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by bloodwood
1. Promotions in Modern Arnis were given to members of the IMAF. They were given these promotions, for what ever reason, to show their advancement in the Organization, not arnis in general. As in all other martial arts, promotion are done within the different organizations not in general, say for all the Kenpo groups to recognize all kempo promotions.

2. So what you are saying is that you and presenters at the symposium will set the standards for rank promotions in Modern Arnis, without the need for being associated with any organization.

3. What will the certificates say at the top?

4. Who will recognize these promotions?

5. Datu Hartman was promoted within his organization and Dieter was promoted by high ranking old timers in the PI. If they were to test under the guidelines you are stating they still woud be getting promoted by those of lesser rank. So it would be no different than Datu Hartman's promotion except it would be done by the no name promotion board and not an organizational thing.

6. Personally I feel that if you want to get promoted, become part of any one of the different Modern Arnis organizations out there, it doesn't matter which one, and be a productive member that supports and helps the group to prosper.

7. Promotion should be for skill and for dedication to your chosen group. Not just grab the promotion and run.

8. And just so you know, I am NOT dissing the symposium. This is not about the symposium. My comments are only on the way of doing these promotions. I think the symposium is a great idea and I hope it goes well.

bloodwood

Blood,
Hi. An answer to your post:

1. In IMAF, I suppose. There were a number of us who weren't promoted in IMAF. My certificate says "Modern Arnis Federation of the Philippines." As to others recognizing others, that is up to them.

2. No so much like that but there are a number of individuals who don't belong to any of the associations and don't feel the need to be. They are frozen in rank while they become better at the art.

3. Don't know. I'm curious about that myself. I hope he spells my name right.

4. It's no so much a matter who recognizes them but who will dis them?

5. Promoted by those of lesser rank? That's a matter of opinion. Dieter, Tim and I all were promoted to the same rank (6th Degree Black) by the GM himself, Remy Presas. All promotions since then were done by those of lesser rank. In Modern Arnis, all were junior to Remy Presas.

No name promotion board? I am a no name? I'll grant that I am not a board but a no name I am not!
:soapbox:

6. Thanks for your opinion and stating it as such.

7. Yes, for the skill but one needs to recognize that there are those who want to be alone and not in a group as well. And who is suggesting that one should grab and run with it?

8. If no one else does, I duplicate your viewpoint and thanks for the plug for the Symposium.

Yours,
( )

PS - I had a name once. Can somebody find it for me?