FMA MCDOJO now i have seen it all

[arnisador]

The Prof.'s time between rankings were highly variable. I've seen people promoted every year for a few years in a row and others lag. I largely agree with what bloodwood has said however.

To the question of tournaments--that was never a part of Modern Arnis since I started in the mid-80s. Frankly, I felt that the Prof. actively discouraged us from such competition. He emphasized having fun training together, not competition.

Others may have had a different experience than me, and other FMAs may be different. In the WMAA sparring is now mandatory for the black belt test (padded sticks). But that was my experience.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by moromoro
OK.

1. Dan what about you, if you where graded to 6 degree in 92 and are with out a doudt the most senior of US senior grades in the art, did you feel it was unnessasary to be graded again or was this the prof choice??????

2. if what bloodwood is saying is correct then you should be comming to 9th now?

3. also bloodwood if the prof would religiously grade upper grade students every 3 years you would have a lot more high level degrees out there!!!!

4. is bloodwoods statement correct?

thanks

terry

Hi Terry,
1) Every promotion was the Prof's choice. How I was raised up in the martial arts, you didn't ask your teacher for a promotion.
2) Where I feel I should be ranked is between me and me for the time being.
3) Religeously is the key word here. If he religeously graded every three years, yes, there would be a lot more high ranks out there.
4) Can't say.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[bloodwood]

posted by arnisador

To the question of tournaments--that was never a part of Modern Arnis since I started in the mid-80s. Frankly, I felt that the Prof. actively discouraged us from such competition. He emphasized having fun training together, not competition

On more than one occasion in private conversation with the Professor he told me that one of the reasons for his forming Modern Arnis was to get away from his violent past and to keep the art of Arnis alive. In his younger fighting days many people were injured to the point of being cripples. The art was dying because the number of people willing to play was diminishing. So to expand the art Professor became a kinder friendlier person. What good is it to be the badest dude around if nobody will play with you. Even though he stopped fighting he was still the badest dude around but knew that propagating the Filipino arts was the most important thing. Beating each other senseless is not the answer however there are times when it's needed but not on a constant basis. What the Professor did was give us the tools we needed for when it was the proper time. He must have been on to something because Modern Arnis still is the most practiced Filipino art in the world.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Now I will address “FMA MCDOJO now I have seen it all”

This thread is nothing but an attack on me! Moro came on MT as an A$$, and I told him so. He started getting intel from other forums, which I was already aware of, then after announcing that I was going on tour in Sweden, he started his attack. From there he continued to ask for my input, knowing I wouldn’t have much access to the net. Now I’m back and let the games begin!

This is not the first gutless wonder that has hidden behind the safety of a computer trying to start problems with me. Remy always told me that the better I did the more clowns would take shots at me. What makes this more interesting is the fact that this clown is not even a Modern Arnis player! My promotion is none of his business. The Modern Arnis community does not have to answer to him.

That being said let me clear up one little point. I was the ONLY American that was in Germany when Remy was diagnosed with the tumor. After receiving treatment, Remy wanted to promote me to head of the system. I told him not to worry about it because he would get better and continue to teach. When I got back from Germany, I called Dr. Randy Shea to inform him of Remy’s condition and that Remy had offered me the system. I also informed him that I thought it would be best to keep people away that might try to take advantage of Remy’s frail health. A month later, a statement named a group of my juniors in rank as being the new successors, including Dr. Shea. Maybe Remy thought when I turned him down that I didn’t want to help in Modern Arnis’ future. I don’t know. Year’s prior to his illness, he would introduce me as his anak (tagalog for son) and one of his successors. This was not done behind closed doors; he would do this at the beginning and the end of seminars he was teaching.

Another side note for you - when I received my 6th degree promotion, it was after I tested for it. At the end of the test, Remy said that it was the highest test that was run in Modern Arnis in over 17 years which would put this back to 1983. My test was not based on time served in the art, but my knowledge and physical ability to perform. On more than one occasion, I had been offered promotions without having to test. But I always insisted on taking the test, so no one could come back and say that it was a “political” black belt. I also produced twenty black belts all of whom tested in front of Professor, earning belts all the way up to third degree black. To my knowledge, no one in North America has ever come close to accomplishing this feat beside myself. That being said, Moro Moro may realize he’s wrong, but I doubt it.

I’m sick of you stirring up crap and backing down by saying “You misunderstand” every time people stand their ground. This thread has been nothing but a challenge to me, and now I ACCEPT! It’s time for you to Bring it, not sing it! I will be in Cebu and Manila in the last two weeks of July 2004. Personally I don’t want to wait that long. I’m thinking that maybe Martial Talk could do a fund raiser to get you plane tickets so we can meet much sooner! If you decide to back up your challenge remember this, NO sparring equipment and bring money, because I don’t fight for free!

Datu Tim Hartman
Speaking for myself and no one else!


To all of Martial Talks Administration team, if I have gone to far on this post I am more than willing to accept any disciplinary action that is warranted.

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by Renegade


I’m sick of you stirring up crap and backing down by saying “You misunderstand” every time people stand their ground. This thread has been nothing but a challenge to me, and now I ACCEPT! It’s time for you to Bring it, not sing it! I will be in Cebu and Manila in the last two weeks of July 2004. Personally I don’t want to wait that long. I’m thinking that maybe Martial Talk could do a fund raiser to get you plane tickets so we can meet much sooner! If you decide to back up your challenge remember this, NO sparring equipment and bring money, because I don’t fight for free!

Datu Tim Hartman
Speaking for myself and no one else!

Now THIS just got a whole lot more interesting.......

 

[Dan Anderson]

Okay Terry,
It's time to put up or shut up. You threw down the gauntlet adn it has been picked up.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Mao]

Does anyone remember susumu kodai? Why is this guy getting any more play than him? Sorry admins.. I couldn't help it. If you must spank me, make it hurt. :rofl:

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by Mao
Does anyone remember susumu kodai? Why is this guy getting any more play than him? Sorry admins.. I couldn't help it. If you must spank me, make it hurt. :rofl:

I dont get it

 

[Mao]

do you remember susumu kodai?

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by Mao
do you remember susumu kodai?

I'm 16 so I'm guessing I was too young.....care to enlighten me

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
I'm 16 so I'm guessing I was too young.....care to enlighten me

Do a search on the user name....you'll understand then grass-flopper.

 

[Brian Johns]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson


1. Present day Modern Arnis is a composite of the influences Remy Presas had throughout his life: his grandfather's art, balintawak, karate, judo, small circle jujutsu and ryukyu kempo - all in varying degrees. I would almost make a division between Philippines Remy Presas Modern Arnis and American Remy Presas Modern Arnis. I think that would be far more correct. Personally, I don't disregard any of RP's Filipino students but I have little in common with them either as I really don't know them or have trained with them other than Shishir Inocalla.>>>>>>

I absolutely agree with Dan, particularly with regard to the version of Modern Arnis taught in the 1990's up through Professor's death.

Just wanted to add one little thing to the above list. One other influence on Remy's present day Modern Arnis is wing chun, due to his wife, Yvette Wong, who is a wing chun player in Canada.

Take care,
Brian

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by bloodwood
On more than one occasion in private conversation with the Professor he told me that one of the reasons for his forming Modern Arnis was to get away from his violent past and to keep the art of Arnis alive. In his younger fighting days many people were injured to the point of being cripples. The art was dying because the number of people willing to play was diminishing. So to expand the art Professor became a kinder friendlier person. What good is it to be the badest dude around if nobody will play with you. Even though he stopped fighting he was still the badest dude around but knew that propagating the Filipino arts was the most important thing. Beating each other senseless is not the answer however there are times when it's needed but not on a constant basis. What the Professor did was give us the tools we needed for when it was the proper time. He must have been on to something because Modern Arnis still is the most practiced Filipino art in the world.

My experiences with the Prof. were very similar to what bloodwood describes here. The Prof. often spoke of getting away from the violence (how many times did we hear the "they let me live--because I was a boy" story?) and moving toward the positive.

Additionally, he wanted a general self-defense and exercise art, not one limited to stick-fencing. His early interest with Modern Arnis was strongly in physical education and later, in the States, he grew more concerned with general self-defense.

 

[Brian Johns]

Wow, things are now getting interesting here. While I might question whether it's wise to get down to the level of moromoro's immaturity, I do question moromoro's mindset or approach to the arts. It appears that he is bent on denigrating Modern Arnis in the United States, even without having seen any of the Modern Arnis players in the US. It appears that moromoro is offended because we are not Filipino or that we did not train with Professor every single day. Based on scant information, he has concluded that we are not good arnis players.

What he does not realize is that many Modern Arnis players have had vast experience in the martial arts prior to meeting Professor. Because of this prior experience, many of us intuitively understand the principles and concepts being imparted to us by Professor. We then are able to extrapolate from the concepts and principles and practice.

You might scoff at this approach. But one must be reminded that Professor traveled all over the Phillipines researching and learning before forming Modern Arnis. We are doing the same thing here in the US. Indeed, our inspiration for this approach to the martial arts is Professor himself.

Moromoro proclaims to laugh at those who saw Professor only 5 or 6 times per year. While that is true, there were many Modern Arnis players who traveled with the Professor extensively. I know one person who attended nearly every seminar and camp with Professor as well as having private workouts for several years. Spent his life savings and put a strain on his marriage. Many others did that.

A short story here to illustrate that a smart person can learn much despite limited contact with Professor. There was once a man who had only two years of formal schooling in backwoods Kentucky. This was in the early 1800's. Despite the fact that he had only two years of school, this man, as a young boy, developed a great hunger for the written word. Not too many people lived in the area that this man lived in. He grew up dirt poor. As a young boy, he asked every visitor in that part of Kentucky if they had a book and if he could borrow it. He studied the grammar, the syntax, the spelling and sentence structure. Understanding the basic principles of the English language which he got only from TWO years of school, he went on to master the English language. Indeed, he became one of the great masters of the English language of all time.

The man's name. Abraham Lincoln.

He is the perfect example of one who learned the basic principles and mastered it.

I believe the same applies to an experienced and intelligent martial artist. I daresay that alot of Modern Arnis players have had a great deal of experience in the martial arts before meeting Remy. As a matter of fact, I got the impression that Remy favored the people with prior martial arts experience as he knew that they would understand the principles of Modern Arnis right away.

Again, one may scoff at this. Let's consider what Prof Visitacion (otherwise known as Prof Vee) once said to me. He said that music contains 7 basic tones (I'm not a music guy here, so bear with me). These 7 notes can be arranged in many different ways. All music are the same in that they contain those same basic notes, except that different kinds of music arrange their notes differently.

Same with the martial arts. Experienced martial artists understand that, at a higher level, things begin to look the same. That's why it was easier for experienced martial artists to understand what Professor was teaching.

Certainly, there will be problems with a person with absolutely zero martial arts experience. That person does not have the basic fundamentals that would enable him or her to understand what Professor was imparting at seminars and camps.

So, with an experienced martial artist learning Modern Arnis from Professor, there was a multi faceted approach.

(1) Seminars with Professor
(2) Camps with Professor
(3) Private workouts with Professor
(4) Teaching modern arnis to willing students. You learn a lot by teaching.
(5) Videos.

Believe me, among the different Modern Arnis organizations, Professor has left behind several bad *** players.

Lastly, the condescending attitude toward American Modern Arnis players brings to mind those militant Islamic terrorists who consider everyone else "infidels" and that even extends to other Muslims who do not follow their brand of Islam. You see this same kind of narrow mindedness in Christianity and other ideologies. I use this only as an example. The point is that there is a certain narrow mindedness that is present here by moromoro. It appears that, in his eyes, we are "infidels" as far as the FMA is concerned. Therefore, we are not following the path.

Hogwash. Your path is not our path. We all have our paths to travel. To paraphrase Bruce Lee (and to a limited extent, the great philosopher Jiddu Krishamurti), your truth is not my truth or any other Modern Arnis player's truth. It appears that you fail to recognize that you have your own path to travel and that is the only path that you should be concerned with. It appears that you are far more concerned about our paths and journeys than about your own. So why fuss so much about others ? Concentrate on your own path and your own truth or you will lose sight of what you are seeking.

Now off my soapbox.

Take care,
Brian Johns
Columbus, Ohio

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Renegade
Personally I don’t want to wait that long. I’m thinking that maybe Martial Talk could do a fund raiser to get you plane tickets so we can meet much sooner! If you decide to back up your challenge remember this, NO sparring equipment and bring money, because I don’t fight for free!

Terry,

I have $100.00 USD for a plane ticket, and the pool, on One Condition. This lowly little Lakan Tatlo get first crack to cross canes with you. Challenges are usually not my deal, yet if it is what you need for a lesson on how FMA in the States is done. Then Fine.

If you Apologize to the USA and FMA practitioners for your insults, then maybe, I'll drop it. If you do not then, I say you are nothing but a speed bump in my life as I run you over.

Remember, if you have a specific problem with a person say so. If you have a specific problem with a group say so. Do not generalize and insult at the same time. I wanted to post something like this, yet I got a phone call and Tim Told me he wanted to reply later, so I edited my post, AKA "Mis post". Yet, I feel that others have been insulted as well, and as Tim has plans to be in the PI in July, I offer to take up the stick here in the USA, and to educate you in the errors of you way.

I also realize that not many will, want to pay for my pleasure of the fight. Yet I Promise, if any money is made from the video tape, and or attendance, I will make sure people get their investment back.

I told you Terry, you were not making friends.

As Robert A. Heinlein said "Waiting is . . ."


Have a nice day I know I did




To all of Martial Talks Administration team, if I have gone to far on this post I am more than willing to accept any disciplinary action that is warranted.

 

[arnisador]

MartialTalk is not the place to plan challenges. Please use it to plan friendly training only. Anything else should be taken to e-mail.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[Bob Hubbard]

MartialTalk Policy updates and changes:

In the past few weeks several things have happened on this board that have caused concerns among both the staff and our members. These concerns cover a wide range of things. This is our attempt to address them.

First, a point of history.

MartialTalk.com was originally setup in August of 2001 to serve as a discussion forum for a regional web portal. It was never in my wildest dreams that it would be as popular as it is, and go truly world wide. In fact, it has long since outgrown and absorbed its parent site.

MartialTalk is for the “friendly” discussion of ‘martial arts’. The key here is this exact phase. My mental image of MartialTalk is a big living room, everyone relaxing with a cool beverage, chatting about their arts, swapping stories, news, techniques and info.

It is not a place to puff your chest, flex your muscles, get on the soapbox and rabble rouse. Nor is it the place to expose your dirty laundry, spread rumors and lies, stab in the back, and run smear campaigns.

It is not the place for ‘egos’, ‘attitudes’ and ‘agendas’.

We have seen the following problems over the recent few weeks flare up greatly. It is our growing concern that left unchecked, these issues will seriously damage, possibly destroy all the hard work we have all put into this site.


1: Off Topic posts, and major thread drift.
We have specific forums for specific areas. Please, use them. As our post count climbs higher, it is harder and harder for our staff to keep up with policing everything. We need your –active- help. Please post on topic to each thread. If it starts to drift, help steer it back on track by a: -politely- bringing up the original topic and b: starting a new thread for the tangent.


2: Fraud Busting.
Every art has its frauds, fakers, and plain misguided folks. Some of them are obvious, some are not. The purpose of MartialTalk is –not- to be the place that’s the master list of who is legit and who is not. We have -one- forum target at the “Bad Budo” idea. If you have specific information on such things, post it there. The constant jumping from forum to forum and thread to thread of this desire by several well meaning folks to ‘cleanse’ the arts and others who constantly feel the need to defend from attacks that often times aren’t even there is causing us to lock down an excessive number of threads. This cannot be allowed to continue.

Effective immediately, ‘fraud busting’ outside of the realm of the “Bad Budo” forum will result in administrative actions against those involved when it disrupts the smooth operation of this forum. If you have concerns about someone’s rank/status it is to be handled via PM or email. You may post the results of that research in the “Bad Budo” forum if warranted. Educated martial artists will see the fraud for what he/she is and should just ignore them. This board was set up for friendly discussion of martial arts, not as a soapbox for people's personal crusades.

If you have questions, concerns, etc about someone or their 'qualifications', post it in the 'Bad Budo' forum and address it there -within our guidelines-. Interrogator type posts will not be tolerated any further. Post your questions, and give the others time to answer. The non-responsivness of an individual should be enough.


3: Lack of respect or tolerance for differing opinions.
Frankly, we are tired of the arguments about gender, race, nationality, etc. We are tired of those supposedly educated, experienced, trained martial artists, who tend to regress to school yard bully mentalities and tactics.

Effective immediately, we will begin removing those members who disrupt the smooth operation of this forum. If you cannot follow our rules, if you cannot leave your attitude at the door, we do not want you here.

There is a difference between a debate and an argument. We welcome debate, as long as it is within our posted guidelines. Take your argument and flames elsewhere.

The harassment of members, the hiding behind the “you’re not an XXX so you wouldn’t understand”, the “you master sucks”, etc. stuff will stop. Now. I don’t care if he thinks he’s a Sith-Lord and you ‘know’ he is nuts. It will cease, immediately.


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If it does not involve martial arts, it goes in the locker room, unless it is a joke, in which case it goes in the humor forum. If you need help, post it in the support forum, not buried 50 posts deep in a thread wondering why we don't reply.



We are working to find ways to resolve the issues that have been brought to our attention. This will take time, and it will require the assistance of our members. 1500 members, 10 mods. There’s a lot more members than staff.


This forum and its features is here for your use and enjoyment. It is up to you on how you behave here. You can treat it as a prized resource, or a toilet. Those who do the latter will rapidly be removed.


My staff and I are your hosts. You are all our guests. We expect you to behave as such. We will remove at our discretion any and all those who we feel are not behaving by our rules. This will be done regardless of rank, title, previous contribution or political alignment. If you cannot follow our rules, the door is there. Don’t let it hit you in the *** on your way out. We will honor –ALL- “remove my account” requests immediately from this point on. No saves, no pauses. If you are suspended and ‘whine’, you will be banned. It is fair to ask ‘why’, but once told, take it like a grown up.

Before someone say this is singling out anyone in particular, it is not.


Any questions?

 

[moromoro]

started getting intel from other forums, which I was already aware of, then after announcing that I was going on tour in Sweden, he started his attack. From there he continued to ask for my input, knowing I wouldn’t have much access to the net. Now I’m back and let the games begin!

i have no idea what you are talking about here, i started this thread as soon as i got out of suspension......

My promotion is none of his business.

sorry but once you begin teaching it is always the public (perspective students business)

This is not the first gutless wonder that has hidden behind the safety of a computer trying to start problems with me.

This thread has been nothing but a challenge to me, and now I ACCEPT! It’s time for you to Bring it, not sing it! I will be in Cebu and Manila in the last two weeks of July 2004.

well well, finally. got myself a challenge with a high ranking american FMA master, a lot easier than i could have imagined. I ACCEPT ALSO, , I ACCEPT SINCE IT WAS YOU WHO CHALLENGED ME. WHAT DATE WILL YOU BE IN CEBU? HERE THE THING IF I BEAT YOU IVE MADE IT BIGTIME, you would have lost everything. My entry to the US will be guaranteed and my name known. But i dont want that, i just want to prove my skills.

I am suppose to be going in january 2005/ december 2004 i will be staying in labangon, i will give you the address on this site or in a PM,

NO sparring equipment and bring money, because I don’t fight for free!

no sparring equiptment great, but who do you think you are i dont fight foe free, well iam telling you this time you will, this type of mentallity means you probably have had no fights at all...

thank you

terry

to the mods iam sorry about this, but i had to reply

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

GM Jornales will be setting up our trip when he gets back from Europe. When I have the information I'll post it on the net.

 

[moromoro]

GM Jornales will be setting up our trip when he gets back from Europe. When I have the information I'll post it on the net

your first trip???