Flow during Sparring

[Msby]

Dunno how exactly to describe it, but here goes. Usually when I spar, I think WAY too much. To the point that it slows me down horribly and my techniques suffer.
However, there have been about 2 times when I was able to almost completely let myself go without losing technique. It was as if I wasn't really doing the strikes, but watching and "suggesting" what to do with my hands and feet.
Everything would flow together well! But I can't do this all the time, it takes a lot of effort for me to tell myself "Just go with it! Don't Think!"
Can someone help explain this "mental state"?

 

[ATC]

Dunno how exactly to describe it, but here goes. Usually when I spar, I think WAY too much. To the point that it slows me down horribly and my techniques suffer.
However, there have been about 2 times when I was able to almost completely let myself go without losing technique. It was as if I wasn't really doing the strikes, but watching and "suggesting" what to do with my hands and feet.
Everything would flow together well! But I can't do this all the time, it takes a lot of effort for me to tell myself "Just go with it! Don't Think!"
Can someone help explain this "mental state"?

Some call this the "Zone". They would say you are in the zone. Everythings just seems to click and you can do no wrong. Happends every now and then but more then than now. Some people say they have only been there once and never had that happen again. Other have been more lucky and been there a couple times but that's it. All athleates experience this at one time or another.

 

[Jaspthecat]

Sounds to me like you need to do more combination drills against a pad man or bag.

oh and relax

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

If your brain is trying to figure out what techniques to use, then that means you haven't drilled those techniques enough for them to be instinctive. Your mind is meant to work on a tactical/strategic level during combat yes, but it doesn't have time to decide when to perform individual techniques.
The solution is to work out what responses you want to certain openings, and defences for general attacks, and then drill them till your body is aching and your muscles feel like rubber.
After you do that enough, they'll become automatic.

 

[mwd0818]

Definitely practice, practice, practice. Also, slowing sparring down to super slow speeds can help - as you'll have time to think through things and teach your body where things happen. I see this often times with students who are going to fast - they aren't trained well enough to "see" and react at full speeds.

The state you are describing is also referred to in Japanese as "mushin", or "no-mind." It's the state of no longer thinking, but simply being in the moment. It's a very zen-like quality and one of the reasons that Buddhist thought often permeates into martial arts, as it is very helpful to simply react and be in the moment rather than think. That, of course, is not to say that Zen has an exclusive right on the state of "no-mind" as it exists in any concentrated activity whether it be from the Western or Eastern world. Zen simply has a term for it and actively seeks it. Then again, if it's Zen, there is no actively seeking it, it is actively found in the passivity of the moment in which there is no attachment nor thought to achieve it.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

That, of course, is not to say that Zen has an exclusive right on the state of "no-mind" as it exists in any concentrated activity whether it be from the Western or Eastern world. Zen simply has a term for it and actively seeks it. Then again, if it's Zen, there is no actively seeking it, it is actively found in the passivity of the moment in which there is no attachment nor thought to achieve it.

Heh true you don't find things that are Zen, you just remove things that get in your way of finding it

 

[suicide]

Dunno how exactly to describe it, but here goes. Usually when I spar, I think WAY too much. To the point that it slows me down horribly and my techniques suffer.
However, there have been about 2 times when I was able to almost completely let myself go without losing technique. It was as if I wasn't really doing the strikes, but watching and "suggesting" what to do with my hands and feet.
Everything would flow together well! But I can't do this all the time, it takes a lot of effort for me to tell myself "Just go with it! Don't Think!"
Can someone help explain this "mental state"?

the mental state is the same as your house is burning down and you got to get out ! just do it : like nike

 

[Live True]

MSBY,
I have had this same problem, and it lies in part with my personal penchant for trying to take things apart in my mind and see how they fit together. This is not a bad thing, but it can cause issues as you train. What you are talking about is kinda what I was shooting for in a thread I recently started about the sublime in your martial art, the thread is here.

What I found, for me, was that I started doing repetitive drills and kata on a daily basis. Not only would I repeat the drills and practice, I would do it with different focus or different speeds as I practiced. I would start off very slow and focusing on the breathing and motions, and then by the last pass I am doing the kata or drill at full throttle and intensity. There is usually a point, near the end of practice, where I am simply doing and that is when I find I am doing my best kata and truly enjoying the experience by being in the NOW. At that moment, I am aware of my full surroundings, but I am focused on a specific point or action. Of course, as soon as I become aware of it...it starts to fall apart...:uhyeah:

This is probalby not new for others, but I'm loving this. I'm finding this is definately starting to have a very positive impact on my training when I am in class...and it also feeds into my day as well. That state of mushin, as Marcus noted, appears more often in my day, and that's just pretty cool (and useful)!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Relax and don't be afraid to lose.

 

[ap Oweyn]

Relax and don't be afraid to lose.

Don't be afraid to win either. There are people, myself included, who struggle with really going after someone to whom they feel no specific ill will. It took me a long time to learn how to inflict my game plan on someone without feeling horrible about it OR (more often) sabotaging my own gameplan so as not to hurt the other person.

It's a weird form of egotism, when you think about it.

 

[zDom]

Don't be afraid to win either. There are people, myself included, who struggle with really going after someone to whom they feel no specific ill will. It took me a long time to learn how to inflict my game plan on someone without feeling horrible about it OR (more often) sabotaging my own gameplan so as not to hurt the other person.

It's a weird form of egotism, when you think about it.

Well said!

Once the bowing ends and the sparring begins, my opponent is no longer a friend, a lady, an instructor — just a moving target that might hit back

 

[Jaspthecat]

Well said!

Once the bowing ends and the sparring begins, my opponent is no longer a friend, a lady, an instructor — just a moving target that might hit back

mmm, I need to do this.

I caught a guy really badly with a left hook yesterday, it didn't help that he slipped to evade the right so was moving towards my left.

I felt quite bad, even though he was fairly magnanimous about it whilst holding his head and bending over all dazed.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Try NOT to think....only try to feel more relax....when sparring...
NO thinking of techniques...

Just let is happen (not sure of your lenght of training) ...just let it happen...NO thinking...try to feel relax.....

Let you mind....(NO thinking of techniques)...let you mind move for you...NOT the thinking....

Successfull MA....moves ...before the thinking of what to do...thiinking about what to do? ...too late....study this futher..

Aloha, ..had to think about this one?

 

[alphacat]

I think that managing to hit the opponent with little force takes much better skills than doing this when applying great force.​

For example, in the last class, the instructor called two trainees to fight each other in front of the class (1 minute sparring).
One was way more experienced than the other.
The experienced one was not allowed to use large force, whilst the green one was allowed to hit as hard as he could.​

The experienced guy managed to hit him with jab and hook, also with some nice front kicks to the body, whilst the rookie barely touched him.​

That raises a question, why after all should large force be used in sparring?
Will applying large force make you a better fighter in the long run?​

 

[MJS]

Dunno how exactly to describe it, but here goes. Usually when I spar, I think WAY too much. To the point that it slows me down horribly and my techniques suffer.
However, there have been about 2 times when I was able to almost completely let myself go without losing technique. It was as if I wasn't really doing the strikes, but watching and "suggesting" what to do with my hands and feet.
Everything would flow together well! But I can't do this all the time, it takes a lot of effort for me to tell myself "Just go with it! Don't Think!"
Can someone help explain this "mental state"?

I have to agree with what others have already said. I wouldn't say there is any magic solution, other than to keep training. With time, you should notice a difference. Of course, you may also want to slow down a bit, and work on specific things. For example: this past week, when I was working with my Kenpo inst., we focused just on some basic boxing fundamentals, ie: bob, weave, slip, etc. I threw nothing back. He did all of the punching. You may also want to add in some focus pad drills.

 

[Msby]

Thank you everyone for the advice. I'm going to talk to my instructor about this, and maybe we can work on it.
Maybe someday I'll always spar without thinking about it

 

[ap Oweyn]

Try this visualization exercise: Before you spar, find a quiet corner to relax. Breathe deeply and all that stuff. And visualize going after your opponent and seeing them backpedal furiously into a corner, covering up for dear life as you rain blows on them. Don't get too detailed about how it happens in your visualization. Just concentrate on that picture. The other guy being overwhelmed.

I have this theory. When you see halting sparring, I think it's because the other guy is fixated on technique. You see people trade their favourite techniques unconsciously in sparring matches. Mindlessly taking turns throwing their techniques of choice. No intent really. Just courteously going back and forth.

I think what you do is get too focused on throwing a technique, then mentally stopping to assess what happened. Did it work? If yes, then... If no, then... Either way, there's this pause in your thinking that results in a pause in your acting.

If, instead, you're focused on fulfilling that mental image of the other guy getting stuffed in the corner or waving you off with a "no mas" or whatever, then you won't stop until that template is fulfilled instead.

Worked for me anyway. Give it a few tries and see what you think. And don't get too specific in your visualizations because then, you're just going to fixate on the technique again. The point is to keep going until you see the other guy utterly overwhelmed.


Stuart

 

[alphacat]

Try this visualization exercise: Before you spar, find a quiet corner to relax. Breathe deeply and all that stuff. And visualize going after your opponent and seeing them backpedal furiously into a corner, covering up for dear life as you rain blows on them. Don't get too detailed about how it happens in your visualization. Just concentrate on that picture. The other guy being overwhelmed.

I have this theory. When you see halting sparring, I think it's because the other guy is fixated on technique. You see people trade their favourite techniques unconsciously in sparring matches. Mindlessly taking turns throwing their techniques of choice. No intent really. Just courteously going back and forth.

I think what you do is get too focused on throwing a technique, then mentally stopping to assess what happened. Did it work? If yes, then... If no, then... Either way, there's this pause in your thinking that results in a pause in your acting.

If, instead, you're focused on fulfilling that mental image of the other guy getting stuffed in the corner or waving you off with a "no mas" or whatever, then you won't stop until that template is fulfilled instead.

Worked for me anyway. Give it a few tries and see what you think. And don't get too specific in your visualizations because then, you're just going to fixate on the technique again. The point is to keep going until you see the other guy utterly overwhelmed.


Stuart

I was trying today to have a short shadow boxing session but I got some real issues with creativity, so after some footwork and jab-cross combinations I found myself stuck.
I was trying to throw some front/roundhouse/low kicks but I just felt that nothing flows so eventually I quitted.

I'm not good at pretending so its hard for me to imagine an opponent in front of me and fight him.

On the other hand, I'm better at following plans so I thought perhaps I could just memorize some combinations and practice them in front of the mirror, while remembering to use some footwork between one combo to another.

Am I losing the whole purpose of shadow boxing by taking the creativity and imagination out of it?

 

[ap Oweyn]

I was trying today to have a short shadow boxing session but I got some real issues with creativity, so after some footwork and jab-cross combinations I found myself stuck.
I was trying to throw some front/roundhouse/low kicks but I just felt that nothing flows so eventually I quitted.

I'm not good at pretending so its hard for me to imagine an opponent in front of me and fight him.

On the other hand, I'm better at following plans so I thought perhaps I could just memorize some combinations and practice them in front of the mirror, while remembering to use some footwork between one combo to another.

Am I losing the whole purpose of shadow boxing by taking the creativity and imagination out of it?

Not the whole purpose. But some of it. Bread and butter combinations that you can commit to muscle memory are a good start. And you're not looking to be creative for the sake of creativity. I'd wager on the guy who always throws a good, solid jab, cross, uppercut anyday over the guy who always has some crazy combination of lower percentage moves. (Unless Genki Sudo is around. If it's him, I'm betting on crazy combos ruling the day.)

That said, you don't have to have that much imagination. If you can shut your eyes and formulate a basic image of someone wearing sparring gear and cringing in the corner, that's basically all I'm talking about.

Maybe it won't work as well for you as it does for me. But give it a go.


Stuart