Finger Whips

[Ray]

just like an actual whip, gets its power from the snap incurred when its direction is changed... therefore, the motion will be traveling away from the attacker at the point of contact.

I have never cracked a whip and used to assume that the cracking of the whip was akin to "snapping a towel." I have since heard that the crack of a whip is not created like snapping a towel (i.e. that there is no sudden reversal of motion in a whip). Rather, it appears that the construction of a whip, larger diameer at the handle and small at the end creates a loop in the whip which accelerates (like a wave in water under certain circumstances) until the end goes faster than the speed of sound.

http://www.bullwhip.org/faq/forward.mov

I have to believe that the force in finger whips is because of the acceleration of the fingers in the final turning of the hand as the arm reaches extension...that it propels the tips quickly and that the small surface of the finger tips concentrates the force into a small area; which is why finger whips can cut flesh (like the flesh on a cheek).

As for the finger whips not "standing on their own" : In many cases other strikes don't stand on their own. Take the handsword in Delayed Sword - it is prefaced by an inward block and therefore doesn't stand on its own either. You could (you could, not necessarily would) execute an outward extended block with your hand in the shape of a crane and be cocked to execute a finger whip (kind of like shielding hammer or Sword of Destruction). You could execute a hooking crane to pull down an opponents arm and return your own hand as a finger whip. I'm kind of thinking that you could almost pull one of in Triggered Salute after craning the attacker's right arm, but your hand isn't quite facing the right way.

 

[bujuts]

A whip of the finger can sting the eye, sure. But, as already stated, what will the accuracy be when the stuff is hitting the ventilation? Secondly, why load an RPG with a marshmellow?

Salute,

Steven Brown
UKF

 

[pete]

ok, dont believe me, do it for yourself: the whip section of finger set into a soft target, like a towel hung over a shower rod. what do you feel as the hand goes from palm-down to palm-up? what happened to the towel?

As for the finger whips not "standing on their own" : In many cases other strikes don't stand on their own. Take the handsword in Delayed Sword - it is prefaced by an inward block and therefore doesn't stand on its own either. You could (you could, not necessarily would) execute an outward extended block with your hand in the shape of a crane and be cocked to execute a finger whip (kind of like shielding hammer or Sword of Destruction). You could execute a hooking crane to pull down an opponents arm and return your own hand as a finger whip. I'm kind of thinking that you could almost pull one of in Triggered Salute after craning the attacker's right arm, but your hand isn't quite facing the right way

I like both of those examples, because the dimensional checks are already in place from the prior moves and the strike may be alterered to match the available target.

A whip of the finger can sting the eye, sure. But, as already stated, what will the accuracy be when the stuff is hitting the ventilation? Secondly, why load an RPG with a marshmellow?

Salute,

Steven Brown
UKF

yes!

pete

 

[pete]

whoops! i meant to say from palm-up to palm-down as it hits the towel...

 

[MattJ]

a. The very tips of the fingers/fingernail surface
b. The first knuckle joint down from the fingertips
c. The longer, flatter 'middle' portion of the finger

All of the above, depending on your orientation to the opponent. Finger whips are certainly not a fight-stopper, but they can be painful and a good distraction technique. I have actually used them in sparring, and had them used against me. Had a student bust me in the mouth with one, and I was quite surprised how painful it was. To the eyes could work well, too.

Not something that I train a lot, but not worthless, either. Try working them in sparring - and wear a mouthguard, LOL.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Greg Ballmeir (sp?) was a Sam Pai Kenpo purple belt I went to high school with in the late 70's/early 80'; didn't have a ton of knowledge at the time, but was an outstanding athlete and one of those darned naturals that puts your hard work to shame with something he just learned.

He got hit in the head with a football on "accident" while getting a drink of water, and promptly started with the behemoth football bully who started it. The footbal player takes off in a dead charge after Greg, to which Greg responds by running away via retreating rear crossovers, while repeatedly (and very quickly) finger whipping the assailant in the nads with each step. Six whips in like, 1.5 seconds. And with each step, the footbal player is getting slower, and lower, and slower and lower, until his forward momentum ends in a pile of slumped over testicular pain on the ground. Never got a hand on Greg (a much smaller dude, by the way, than the steroid junkie he dropped). And Gregs reply did little (aside from advancing to the rear) to address issues of height, width, or depth. A foot maneuver (rear-crossover to the rear) and a finger whip (delivered in the path we usually reserve for back hammerfists).

I thought it was a clever and effective use of the rear finger whip from finger set. Still do.

Dave.

 

[Brother John]

Understood, but my question was primarily regarding throwing a finger whip into a quick scenario for discussion of the strike itself, not for discussion of the scenario itself.

Sean

I think that THIS is Sean's original intent for the thread.
Anything else is "Off Topic".

Your Brother
John

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

A whip of the finger can sting the eye, sure. But, as already stated, what will the accuracy be when the stuff is hitting the ventilation? Secondly, why load an RPG with a marshmellow?

Salute,

Steven Brown
UKF

Priceless.

 

[Kenpo1981]

Hmmm....recalling each time I have been accidentally poked in the eye, by myself or another, my reaction was always to move away instantly as my hands moved toward my eyes.

I think that is the instinctive reaction a person has to any strike to the eyes. A finger whip, as done in Sword and Hammer, if you are skipping the sword and using a whip, is very fast. I don't believe much accuracy is required. I think if you are coming fast and hard with the strike they will flinch about like I described above and set themselves up for the follow-up groin strike.

 

[madeku]

think of the whip with a anchored elbow, rather than a full extension. the whip and towel analogy is great. but they are both still whipping motions. one obviously has alot more power.. but either way, it doesnt take much to create the needed effect in this case. its like mr parker's comparison of stabbing someone in the heart with a 4 inch blade vs a 6 inch blade, who will be more dead?..

even if the finger whip doesn't hit or hit the right target, it will still likely cause enough flinch response to leave the groin more open. whos to say you wont hit accidentally the guy in the chest instead of the neck or face with a handsword?

 

[MattJ]

I have used finger-whips in sparring (not to the eyes, obviously). They don't have much stopping power, but they can sting like hell. I got popped in the mouth by one, and while it didn't really slow me down, it did hurt.

I imagine they would hurt worse if they hit the eyes. However, I am more of a fan of heavy-duty strikes (palms, punches, elbows), myself.