Favorite Form?
- Thread starter Mimir
- Start date
- Thread Starter
- #23
Now there is something universal to all MA: As Kwanjang is always pointing out to us - Breathing correctly :asian:
Whichever ones my students don't know when they ask me to demonstrate one of my patterns - so I don't look like too much of a fool when I leave things out! Okay, maybe not...
Actually, I like Ko-Dang; it's hard to do correctly in a very technical, rather than very physical way - kind of like Othello; it was an easy pattern to learn, but very hard to learn to do correctly.
Actually, I like Ko-Dang; it's hard to do correctly in a very technical, rather than very physical way - kind of like Othello; it was an easy pattern to learn, but very hard to learn to do correctly.
I've been thinking for the past two days of what my favorite form is. It's hard for me to decide, because even my least favorite forms I've learned have ended up being alright in my eyes.
I think though, that for the gup forms, it would have to be Tae Guek Oh Chang. I like the big movements, and such as it represents wind, it really makes you think about breathing!
For blackbelt forms, Tae Baek.
I think though, that for the gup forms, it would have to be Tae Guek Oh Chang. I like the big movements, and such as it represents wind, it really makes you think about breathing!
For blackbelt forms, Tae Baek.
I'm quite caffinated, so Erik, please forgive my getting trivial and technical.
Technically, they're Kukkiwon forms. The WTF is actually a sports governing body. The Kukkiwon is the entity that establishes poomsae and standards for dan certification.
Having said that, Erik is practical terms, correct, as the Kukkiwon and the WTF are most definitely interconnected, and to my knowledge, WTF schools that aren't sport only will pretty much always be teaching a Kukkiwon curriculum. Kukkiwon poomsae are the only forms, to my knowledge, associated wth the WTF.
Daniel
BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2007
- Messages
- 902
- Reaction score
- 41
I like Choong-Moo as well...I've never been that great at it, but it was always challenging to try to do the flying sidekick.
Besides, it just looks cool.
Besides, it just looks cool.
zDom
Senior Master
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2006
- Messages
- 3,081
- Reaction score
- 111
Why not? As long as you are taking the time to sufficiently train them both, it can only make your tkd better.
Agreed. Also, I assume that the forms emphasize different things. Out of curiousity, does the ITF do palgwe forms or something else entirely?
Daniel
zDom
Senior Master
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2006
- Messages
- 3,081
- Reaction score
- 111
Believe the proper name for ITF's forms is
"Chang Hon" (or other variant spellings)
BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2007
- Messages
- 902
- Reaction score
- 41
dancingalone
Grandmaster
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2007
- Messages
- 5,322
- Reaction score
- 281
Because there's needless repetition if you train both. How many down blocks and reverse punch forms do you really need after all? The extra time you spend on another set of forms (likely without applications training) would be better spent on heavy bag and body conditioning or perhaps even self-defense work.
Practicing MORE forms do NOT make your TKD better. Practicing the ones you know MEANINGFULLY will.
BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2007
- Messages
- 902
- Reaction score
- 41
I agree and disagree at the same time.
I agree that practicing forms that you meaningfully will help you improve.
I disagree with there being needless repetition of learning 2 styles of forms. To me, it's like learning 2 different styles of martial arts: you're going to have some crossover moves from one style to the next.
I can see your point to a degree, however, that your time could be spent working on other things that may need more attention that practicing forms, such as heavy bag work. But, if this is the case, then I would put a priority on what should be trained first and for how long.
I still wouldn't see it as a waste of time. As long as you're practicing SOMETHING and not eating potato chips on the couch watching TV, then you're being productive.
Just my opinion, though.
I'm rather with you on that Brandon. I find anything that adds to my MA knowledge to be of use.
Daniel
Daniel
dancingalone
Grandmaster
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2007
- Messages
- 5,322
- Reaction score
- 281
I just don't see the point in practicing mutiple sets of forms, especially since they come from the same end of the pool when you are talking about TKD forms.
Let's outline the forms in use in TKD today.
1) Japanese/Okinawan forms (Pyung Ahn, Patsai, etc) - These are the Shuri-te kata by way of Japanese Shotokan karate. Some argue these are the "original" and the best set of forms. They contain plenty of applications and there's a whole universe of karate knowledge to delve within. Cons: Little kicking which I know is a sore subject for hardcore "new" TKD lines.
2) Chang Hon forms - obvious reshuffling of the Pyung Ahns by General Choi, "the Founder of TKD" and a Shotokan karate second dan. Benefits - you can largely take the Pyong Ahn applications and reuse them here also. And if you are a sine wave proponent, well these are the forms to use. Cons: Not very much kicking either.
3) Palgwe forms - an early attempt to divest TKD of both the problematic Japanese and General Choi ties but ultimately yet another reshuffling of the Pyung Ahn forms Benefits: Yes, you can reuse the karate applications to an extent but some movements found in the Pyung Ahn forms are missing. Cons - Little kicking and truthfully, these Palgwes don't flow as well as the original Japanese forms IMO. The first six are also pretty simplistic.
4)Tae Guk forms - new forms created by Kukkiwon for political reasons to replace the Palgwe. These forms use a high walking stance. I would have a hard time stretching the old Japanese/Okinawan bunkai with these forms and I really regard them as moving basics. I'm sure Kukkiwon people will disagree with me though. Not that much kicking in these either to my recollection.
4)ATA Songahm forms - lots of kicking in these forms, created by a former ITF master, HU Lee. Prior to creating these, the ATA used the Chang Hon forms. These can be physically challenging. I believe the sidekick is seen as early as the third(?) form and I know a front kick is definitely present in the first. Like most new forms, there are no applications by design in these forms. They're just a way of practicing moving basics.
From my point of view, it would be overly repetitive to train more than one set of these forms. Sure, it's better for you than laying on the couch, but why do it? Why not focus on really UNDERSTANDING one form, much less a group of forms. My instructor cataloged over 500 applications in the Pyung Ahn forms alone, and he's taught me a fraction of those. Learning the rest will take the rest of my life. I don't see the point in jacking around with what would be a very shallow (albeit cardiovascularly rewarding) exercise in practicing yet another set of hyung.
Let's outline the forms in use in TKD today.
1) Japanese/Okinawan forms (Pyung Ahn, Patsai, etc) - These are the Shuri-te kata by way of Japanese Shotokan karate. Some argue these are the "original" and the best set of forms. They contain plenty of applications and there's a whole universe of karate knowledge to delve within. Cons: Little kicking which I know is a sore subject for hardcore "new" TKD lines.
2) Chang Hon forms - obvious reshuffling of the Pyung Ahns by General Choi, "the Founder of TKD" and a Shotokan karate second dan. Benefits - you can largely take the Pyong Ahn applications and reuse them here also. And if you are a sine wave proponent, well these are the forms to use. Cons: Not very much kicking either.
3) Palgwe forms - an early attempt to divest TKD of both the problematic Japanese and General Choi ties but ultimately yet another reshuffling of the Pyung Ahn forms Benefits: Yes, you can reuse the karate applications to an extent but some movements found in the Pyung Ahn forms are missing. Cons - Little kicking and truthfully, these Palgwes don't flow as well as the original Japanese forms IMO. The first six are also pretty simplistic.
4)Tae Guk forms - new forms created by Kukkiwon for political reasons to replace the Palgwe. These forms use a high walking stance. I would have a hard time stretching the old Japanese/Okinawan bunkai with these forms and I really regard them as moving basics. I'm sure Kukkiwon people will disagree with me though.
Not that much kicking in these either to my recollection.4)ATA Songahm forms - lots of kicking in these forms, created by a former ITF master, HU Lee. Prior to creating these, the ATA used the Chang Hon forms. These can be physically challenging. I believe the sidekick is seen as early as the third(?) form and I know a front kick is definitely present in the first. Like most new forms, there are no applications by design in these forms. They're just a way of practicing moving basics.
From my point of view, it would be overly repetitive to train more than one set of these forms. Sure, it's better for you than laying on the couch, but why do it? Why not focus on really UNDERSTANDING one form, much less a group of forms. My instructor cataloged over 500 applications in the Pyung Ahn forms alone, and he's taught me a fraction of those. Learning the rest will take the rest of my life. I don't see the point in jacking around with what would be a very shallow (albeit cardiovascularly rewarding) exercise in practicing yet another set of hyung.
JadeDragon3
Black Belt
What good are forms really? A person can know 100 forms or know 6 or 7 forms and be just as good. I know about 20 forms. I know probably 2 forms for each animal style (tiger, snake, crane, leopard, and dragon) and I know staff form, braodsword form, whip chain form and a battle ax form, 1 seven star praying mantis form, (1) five animal plus lohon form, and a tiger crane form. If you know the form that has the basics in it and one other form maybe intermediate or advanced form from a system thats all you really need. With that knowledge you can theoritically make up as many forms as you could possibly come up with.
