Fat kid has had enough

[K831]

If reasonable force was used in response to a punch I do not have an issue with.
However reasonable force to a punch is not slamming someone on their head.
In my opinion slamming someone on their head is lethal force because the intent is to cause serious bodily harm.

The Bigger kid could have run away the Bigger kid could have responded in a non violent way and just restrained him, could have told a teacher and could have used reasonable force to defend himself.

First of all, "reasonable force" is subjective and is debated amongst highly intelligent and educated military, law enforcement, political/diplomatic and elected officials. Expecting a 13 year old kid to get it perfect is silly.

Second, you say "in response to a punch" but there were multiple punches, and since the posting new info has come out, namely that this treatment has been ongoing for a year. Is a body slam a reasonable response to 365 punches to the face?

Third, to assert that just because he slammed him he must have had lethal intent is pretty presumptuous, and I would suggest, highly inaccurate. He slammed him because he is big. Small and quick fighter darts in and out punching, big slow fighter gets hold eventually and throws.. that's pretty much their best genetic options, which is why its the common tactic for both.

Fourth - this is where many people miss the point when it comes to bullying. You are comparing the physical actions and the potential physical injury of each kid, and so it is easy to say body slam > punch.

This is faulty logic however, because the damage caused by bullying is NOT PHYSICAL. It is the emotional damage to ones self esteem and confidence that is at risk.

I have owned my own company for years. We are contracted by many other companies who need help training, motivating their employees etc. EVERY LONG TERM SUCCESSFUL AND HEALTHY PERSON I have worked with had a solid self esteem and good helping of confidence. Every truly happy person I have met had the same. It is one of the common traits amongst them all. Want to know the common trait in most under-performing, unhappy, unsuccessful people? Its the same for people in co-dependent and unhealthy relationships - low confidence and low self worth.

Now with that information, we can look at it this way; body slam < multiple punches AND humiliation that is damaging his self esteem and self confidence, thus damaging his chances at long term happiness and success.

Is there a reasonable force problem in that context? Nope.... Bruno and I are in agreement.... my children will get rewarded for standing up to a bully in defense of themselves, or any other person being bullied, and they would have to do a lot for me to think their response was too violent. Attempts at taking from them their self respect, self confidence and self esteem can and should be met with heavy and swift response.

My 18 month old already works the focus mitts.... If any of my kids are caught using these skills to bully there will be hell to pay - but they are well aware that using their skills to stand up for others isn't just ok... it's expected.

 

[Bruno@MT]

The latest , is that the mother of the the diminutive bully wants the victim to apologise to her toe rag of a son for pile driving him into the concrete.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-nsw/bullys-angry-mum-wants-victim-to-apologise/story-e6freuzi-1226022817182

Just read it. The mother says she raised her kids to walk away from violence. Given that the boy was bullied over a long time, those lessons didn't register.

I think she is more upset that her entire family and circle of friends has seen it by now, and she can no longer pretend her little darling is an innocent little angel. I also think she fails to appreciate that it was her son's friend who was recording it, no doubt for future entertainment value.

 

[Empty Hands]

If the little kid had broken his neck, I'd agree with you. But he didn't. It all ended well and valuable lessons were learned.

It's only luck that he didn't, which is what is fueling the concern. Bullies are little *****, but they don't deserve paralysis and death. I too will teach my children to defend themselves, but much as we do in my dojo, I will teach them to defend themselves appropriately. The big kid used lethal force, he just got lucky this time.

 

[Bruno@MT]

It's only luck that he didn't, which is what is fueling the concern. Bullies are little *****, but they don't deserve paralysis and death. I too will teach my children to defend themselves, but much as we do in my dojo, I will teach them to defend themselves appropriately. The big kid used lethal force, he just got lucky this time.

I am glad he got lucky. Because he did not deserve any of this. I couldn't care less about the bully.

I was bullied for a while in high school. Getting hit occasionally, being called names etc is really not the worst part. The truly bad parts are the feeling of utter helplessness. The sinking feeling in your stomach every time you approach school. The feeling of hopelessness at the end of the holidays because you know the good days are over again. The fear every time they come for you, and you wonder if this will be the day they will do more than give you temporal hurt.

The absolute lack of self esteem starts becoming a habit and unless you manage to turn it around, you can carry it with you the rest of your life. Like this kid, at one point I snapped. It was in college when I finally thought I was free from bullying and then a couple of co-students confronted me and kicked a deck of cards out of my hands, soccer style. I was hit by a massive adrenalin surge and I got so angry that I vowed to myself that the next person to touch me was going to be pulped there and then.

The moment never came. I am thankful for that because I was beyond reason. Something in my manner must have made them reconsider because from that day they never bothered me again. Noone ever did anymore for that matter. I was free. And I cannot begin to describe to how good that felt. Running away, running to the teacher, getting the system to deal with them does really do nothing for your feelings of self worth, your doubts and your fears. It will just postone the bullying.

So yes, I am biased. I am glad nothing bad happened to the bully because it would have been problematic for the big kid. But had he broken his neck, I really would not have felt sorry for the bully.

 

[Aiki Lee]

If the smaller child truly was the agressor then he desrved what he got. The large child picking him up and slamming him was probably the only thing he could think of at the time.

Was it excessive? Yes. Do I blame him for it? No. He probably could have just bolwed that smaller kid over, but the fact is he didn't. If the bully would have ended up paralyzed I would have felt bad for him, because he could grow up and change his ways and be helpful to society and live a good life. It would have been his own fault though.

I saw this on kidshealth.org

Don't get physical. However you choose to deal with a bully, don't use physical force (like kicking, hitting, or pushing). Not only are you showing your anger, you can never be sure what the bully will do in response. You are more likely to be hurt and get in to trouble if you use violence against a bully. You can stand up for yourself in other ways, such as gaining control of the situation by walking away or by being assertive in your actions. Some adults believe that bullying is a part of growing up (even that it is character building) and that hitting back is the only way to tackle the problem. But that's not the case. Aggressive responses tend to lead to more violence and more bullying for the victims

As a social worker, someone who worked in schools, and former victim of bullying myself I have to say that at best this is a half truth.
I ABHORE violence. It is the most primitive form of communication, but because it is the most primitive comunication it is something every understands. Fighting back physically in some situations can of course lead to more problems than solutions, but sometimes that is the only way to stop a bully. I always recomend doing whatever you can to avoid violence until it becomes the only choice left to prevent further victimization.

Just like peace confrences and sanctions don't always work against Tyrants, mediation and telling adults doesn't always get a bully off your back. Sometimes you need a tactical strike.

 

[KELLYG]

This kid had been harassed by the boy for over a year! I have to give him a lot of credit for self discipline. Most people would not have tolerated it that long. Some as was stated before would do some thing more drastic like bringing a fire arm to school. The smaller kid was hitting the larger kid at will, then started showboating when the bigger kid did not respond in kind, adding insult to injury. I think that the smaller boy got what he deserved. The older kid showed more self discipline by walking away after the threat had been neutralized. Props to the bigger guy, he did what was necessary and only what was necessary.

 

[CoryKS]

I don't see the issue here, this was a simple exchange of information. If you do this to me, I'll do this to you. Basic communication. Now if it happens again, it might be necessary for someone to step in to correct the problem.

But I don't think it's going to happen again.

 

[Benevolentbob]

The scrawny kid had it coming.

 

[oaktree]

The bigger kid did just that for over a year apparently.
Didn't help, did it? Personally I don't think there is value in teaching kids to stay victims and depending on other people to make sure noone tries to hurt them. They might as well tattoo 'kick me' on their foreheads. The little kid could have just not thrown the first punch. He could have just walked away after trying to land the second, third and fourth punch.

I have been a victim of bullying before. 1.I told a teacher or an adult. If that did not work then 2.I would tell my parents who would then sit with the principal and the teacher. If that did not work than 3. I would fight if I had to. But I would never use lethal force on the person. What I saw from the video was the kid being punched he then had control of the bully and he could have restrained him but no he instead decided to use lethal force.

Lethal force is the intent of causing great bodily harm picking someone up and slamming them on concrete does not warrant you to respond with lethal force.

He had every chance to walk away, to restrain the person or respond with the reasonable amount of force to stop the attacker.

I agree that dunking someone on his head is an extreme action.
However, the bullying and provocations had built up for a long time. Even after the first solid punch to his face, the big kid only wanted to be left alone while the young kid indicated that he repeatedly wanted to punch him again, knowing full well someone was recording it. Perhaps because of it so he could embarras the big kid on facebook

Does not matter still can not use lethal force. For example if someone teases you and pushes you and punches you, you can not go and stab him with a knife and say "oh he picked on me for 2 years and this is just build up"
The response has to be appropriate to the situation.
If someone comes at me with a knife than lethal force is warranted.

In light of all that, I do not think the big kid reacted inappropriately. If you kick Mike Tyson in the nads, don't complain if he punches your head from your body.

Ya but if I kick Tyson in the nads and he stabs me repeatly with a knife than that is lethal force. If Tyson slams me on the ground and I am a fragile 90 lb weakling than that may be considered lethal force.

Put it like this: if the big kid was my daughter, I'd back her all the way and buy her an Xbox to pass the time while suspended. If the little kid was my daughter, I'd apologize to the big kid, and had a heart to heart with my daughter that bullying is wrong and she got what she deserved. If the little kid had broken his neck, I'd agree with you. But he didn't. It all ended well and valuable lessons were learned

I am all for standing up to bullies however I am not for excessive,lethal force when it is not warranted. To think you are and celebrate it Actually the small kid was wobbling he may have a concussion interesting that you approve of children causing each other concussions.

 

[Sukerkin]

Mate, he didn't slam him, he picked him up and then dropped him again. He had had enough and grabbed the little **** ... not being a fighter, he didn't really know what to do after that, so he put him back where he found him. You 'slam' someone down on hard ground and they don't get back up again without serious injury.

I have to say that I find any position that does not entail anything but sympathy for this poor kid distasteful. What kind of moral judgement blames the lad who had been the victim for so long? It might make me a bad person but even if he'd killed the **** by accident, I'd still feel sorry for him rather than the bully.

As has been said earlier in this thread, if you have not been bullied (and I mean really bullied, which is the equivalent of torture, rather than a bit of teasing or the odd sucker punch), then you don't really have a frame of reference to understand. It doesn't mean you are lacking in empathy or are unwilling to try to see both sides; it just means, through good fortune, that you cannot understand, just as we people born male cannot understand rape from the female perspective.

EDIT: Actually, just watched the video again and he did chuck him back on the ground but from only about 2 feet and hip first rather than head first.

 

[oaktree]

First of all, "reasonable force" is subjective and is debated amongst highly intelligent and educated military, law enforcement, political/diplomatic and elected officials. Expecting a 13 year old kid to get it perfect is silly

Which is why if a Teenager commits a crime resulting in death he may be charged in that Homicide. It does not matter if you don't know the laws its if you break them that matter. Just because I don't know all the statues of certain law does not mean I can say
"well I did not know I could not do that your honor."

Second, you say "in response to a punch" but there were multiple punches, and since the posting new info has come out, namely that this treatment has been ongoing for a year. Is a body slam a reasonable response to 365 punches to the face?

I am afraid tit for tat does not work in this case. Like I said earlier if someone punches you every day for 2 years you can not shoot him dead that woud be murder and most likely it would have been premeditated murder considering the length of time prior that may have lead you to shoot that person.

Third, to assert that just because he slammed him he must have had lethal intent is pretty presumptuous, and I would suggest, highly inaccurate. He slammed him because he is big. Small and quick fighter darts in and out punching, big slow fighter gets hold eventually and throws.. that's pretty much their best genetic options, which is why its the common tactic for both.

I say lethal because he had him in his grip to stop him from punching and he had the time to think about his actions or what to do he choose to slam him on the floor. That means he had intent and the intent was lethal. The kid was wobbling means there is a good chance he may have had a concussion.

Fourth - this is where many people miss the point when it comes to bullying. You are comparing the physical actions and the potential physical injury of each kid, and so it is easy to say body slam > punch.

No but in this case because of his size it becomes lethal force.
A 300 lb man slamming a 105 woman who punched him is lethal force.
A 105 lb woman slamming a 300 lb man may not be considered lethal force I suppose that depends on the jury.

This is faulty logic however, because the damage caused by bullying is NOT PHYSICAL. It is the emotional damage to ones self esteem and confidence that is at risk.

I have been bullied too I am sure everyone has at some point. You can be assertive and find ways to deal with your bully without resulting in lethal force or causing great bodily harm that may cause paralysis or death.

I am not saying do not stand up for yourself I am saying find alternatives to lethal force.
I also said if you have to fight then fight but use only the amount of force needed to end the conflict body slam on head is excessive.

I have owned my own company for years. We are contracted by many other companies who need help training, motivating their employees etc. EVERY LONG TERM SUCCESSFUL AND HEALTHY PERSON I have worked with had a solid self esteem and good helping of confidence. Every truly happy person I have met had the same. It is one of the common traits amongst them all. Want to know the common trait in most under-performing, unhappy, unsuccessful people? Its the same for people in co-dependent and unhealthy relationships - low confidence and low self worth

No arugement there. However there is a caveat with this. Plenty of people who
are defensive perssimistic who may not be seen as high self esteem or optimistic are still able to function well.

Now with that information, we can look at it this way; body slam < multiple punches AND humiliation that is damaging his self esteem and self confidence, thus damaging his chances at long term happiness and success.

His chances for long term happiness and success are not being jeperodized.
Many people who have been victim of bullies lead successful productive happy lifes.
Replace Body slam with Gun and make your arguement.
Do you sympathize with the kids from Columbine and blame the people who bullied them
or do you think they could have found other alternatives that did not involved killing 12 students.

Is there a reasonable force problem in that context? Nope.... Bruno and I are in agreement.... my children will get rewarded for standing up to a bully in defense of themselves, or any other person being bullied, and they would have to do a lot for me to think their response was too violent. Attempts at taking from them their self respect, self confidence and self esteem can and should be met with heavy and swift response.

There is no disagreement with standing up to bulling.
What the issue is lethal force.
I am making a guess that if your child used lethal force than you feel its ok based on this quote? So for you then if you child was being bullied than you would be ok if she shot and killed her bullies because they were taking her self respect, self confidence and self esteem there for justifys lethal force?

My 18 month old already works the focus mitts.... If any of my kids are caught using these skills to bully there will be hell to pay - but they are well aware that using their skills to stand up for others isn't just ok... it's expected

You expect your kids to stand up to bullies this gives me the impression expect meaning to me, if they don't then do this, you dont have high regard for them or are disappointed in them. It seem to me you are trying to teach your children self esteem but using the term "expect" which comes off as do and I love you don't and I think less of you really can hurt a child's self esteem.

Maybe this is not your intent and I am reading wrong but it comes off as that in my opinion.

 

[oaktree]

Mate, he didn't slam him, he picked him up and then dropped him again. He had had enough and grabbed the little **** ... not being a fighter, he didn't really know what to do after that, so he put him back where he found him. You 'slam' someone down on hard ground and they don't get back up again without serious injury.

He was slammed. But I guess picking up someone and dropping on the floor like that is not a slam to you well we will have to agree to disagree on it.

As has been said earlier in this thread, if you have not been bullied (and I mean really bullied, which is the equivalent of torture, rather than a bit of teasing or the odd sucker punch), then you don't really have a frame of reference to understand. It doesn't mean you are lacking in empathy or are unwilling to try to see both sides; it just means, through good fortune, that you cannot understand, just as we people born male cannot understand rape from the female perspective.

I have been bullied rather extreme before and I can understand the wanting to harm even malice intent well but there is a difference between having them and acting upon them. I don' tknow if a male can understand rape from a female perspective but both are forms of being violated and certainly a man can feel the disgust of being violated and controled over even more so by someone of the same sex has himself. So no a male can not feel that nor could a woman feel it thru a males perspective but both can have mutal understanding and some similarities of disgust.

 

[Sukerkin]

I'm not going to continue responding to you in this matter, Oaktree.

You are entitled to your opinion and entitled to express it.

It just happens that it is so far removed from mine that there is no middle ground to be found and if I carried on all that would be achieved is a useless argument. I can normally negotiate some form of compromise on most subjects but not this one.

 

[David43515]

@Oaktree:It`s easy for us to look at the fight and see opportunities to leave, or to simply control our opponant. But we`re adults who train in martial arts and our thoughts aren`t clouded by the fact that we`rre in the middle of a fight. Asking a 13 yr old kid to be aware of all those things is, at best, unrealistic. Yes, I look at it and see the potential for serious, maybe even, lethal, injury. Most kids would look at it and see one kid picking another up and throwing him down. Not much different than Judo or Wrestling or kids rough-housing with other kids. A body slam on concrete, especially uneven contrete like that courtyard does seem to be a bit much. But you could argue the dangerous potential of punches to the head and face just as well. How many boxers die each year? How much pressure does it take for a puncher`s thumb to slip into an eyesocket and blind someone forever? I don`t know.I noticed a couple other things though. Someone was taping this to enjoy later. The bully had friends with him. Not just one, early on there are a couple other boys floating around watching. Who`s to say they wouldn`t have jumped in if the bigger kid had tried to stick to fist fighting? Who`s to say they haven`t in the past? We don`t know.In fact there was one large boy who follows the victim until an older girl chases him off. This was a multiple opponant situation. One thing we do know for sure is that once the little agressor was down, the victim left. He didn`t escalte the violence. He didn`t gloat. He didn`t do anything wrong. He did what most martial arts schools teach as gospel.Just for a moment lets say the worst happened. Let`s say little asshat landed on his melon and was crippled or killed. It would be a tragedy for everyone involved......but it would have been 100% avoidable if the little asshat had minded his own business. I`d be very sorry to see that hed had lost his life and his potential to do good in the world. But I`d still believe it was his own stupid fault. Not long ago I read of a gas station owner in California who`s in his late 80`s. He uses a walker, is on an oxygen tank, and can hardly stand up on his own. But he goes into work every day. 3 times in the last 2 years people have come in and tried to rob him at gunpoint because he looks like an easy target. Each time the robbers have died at the business end of a shotgun. I assume the robbers leave behind families that love them and mourne their loss. But if they didn`t choose to start trouble they`d still be alive and well. There`s a lesson in all that somewhere. Hopefully the little bully learned his lesson with one jarring slam to the ground and the stupidity was knocked out of him. Maybe he won`t grow up thinking he can run around abusing people without ever facing any consequences. I sure hope so. If nothing else, at least he learned not to pick fights with someone twice his size. Even if that`s all he learned it`s an important lesson.

 

[oaktree]

I'm not going to continue responding to you in this matter, Oaktree.

You are entitled to your opinion and entitled to express it.

It just happens that it is so far removed from mine that there is no middle ground to be found and if I carried on all that would be achieved is a useless argument. I can normally negotiate some form of compromise on most subjects but not this one.

Thats fine sir. As long as we can discuss things in a calm polite manner its ok.
I myself will be bowing out soon too.

I think this may be an issue where there is no middle ground and compromises.
But not everyone can agree on everything. See you on other threads that may result in more agreeable issues.

 

[oaktree]

I think I will have to bow out of this thread.

I will gladly read any replies to me if it is something that you really need me to answer please send me a PM.

 

[K831]

Which is why if a Teenager commits a crime resulting in death he may be charged in that Homicide. It does not matter if you don't know the laws its if you break them that matter. Just because I don't know all the statues of certain law does not mean I can say
"well I did not know I could not do that your honor."

Yes it does. You have a skewed view of the legal definition of “lethal force”. First, it is subjective (as are most terms in the legal system, or at least the application of them). I’m a bit surprised by your willingness to play both judge and jury by issuing your own definition of lethal force, as well as judge and jury as to the intent of the child being bullied. Lethal force is most commonly defined as “the force which a person uses, causing—or that a person knows, or should know, would create a substantial risk of causing—death…”
For you to apply the term “lethal force” to this action means either you do not understand the term, or you are 1.) asserting that one child throwing another on the ground is likely to cause serious injury and death, that 2.) the child doing the throwing knew that it would cause serious injury and death and 3.) that he intended for it to cause serious injury and death. I’m sorry, but that is way to many presumptions for me to get behind. Lastly, I don’t think that slam is LIKELY to cause death. Could it? Yes, but so could, and has, a right cross.

I am afraid tit for tat does not work in this case. Like I said earlier if someone punches you every day for 2 years you can not shoot him dead that woud be murder and most likely it would have been premeditated murder considering the length of time prior that may have lead you to shoot that person.

Again, your insistence in drawing a parallel between one child throwing a bully on the ground and one adult shooting another adult in retaliation to a punch is surprising and frankly, silly. Additionally, if an adult hits me, and I can show cause that I felt my life (and in some states, property) were in danger, than yes I can shoot the attacker. As any cop or lawyer will tell you, your only statement after taking the life of another in self defense is “I was afraid for my life…. I want my lawyer”.

I say lethal because he had him in his grip to stop him from punching and he had the time to think about his actions or what to do he choose to slam him on the floor. That means he had intent and the intent was lethal. The kid was wobbling means there is a good chance he may have had a concussion.

This is simply nonsensical. I’m glad you thought he had time I the .5 seconds it took him to slam the kid to have a logical debate about the potential physical risks to his bully, and then decided consciously to go ahead and try to kill the bully. However, your “thinking” that’s what happened isn’t good enough. As to a concussion… um so? Yes, they can be dangerous, but they happen all the time in most any sport.

I have been bullied too I am sure everyone has at some point. You can be assertive and find ways to deal with your bully without resulting in lethal force or causing great bodily harm that may cause paralysis or death.

Broad generalizations, and again the assumption that 1.) this was lethal force and 2.) great bodily harm was done. Personally, the fact that no report of injuries to the bully have been revealed (to my knowledge) indicates there weren’t any… .negating your argument anyways.

I also said if you have to fight then fight but use only the amount of force needed to end the conflict body slam on head is excessive.

He didn’t slam him head first. You can guarantee the exact move or technique that will end a fight? you must have an INCREDIBLE ability to read opponents. The fact that this kid walked away immediately upon realizing he ended the fight shows his intent and restraint. He did exactly what you accused him of failing to do.

Replace Body slam with Gun and make your arguement.

I don’t have to, because there was no gun, and the two are not even remotely equal. Besides that, your attempts at comparing the two are fallacious.

Do you sympathize with the kids from Columbine and blame the people who bullied them
or do you think they could have found other alternatives that did not involved killing 12 students.

I don’t know enough about them to sympathize, but if they were bullied for years, then yes. You confuse sympathy with empathy, and also seem to think that because one human being can be sympathetic or empathetic to another that must mean they condone the behavior. Such a narrow view of things. Simply put, if a sexual deviant breaks into my house, with the intent to hurt my wife or child, in part because he was sexually abused and tortured his whole life.. then I will have sympathy for him while I put rounds through his brain. Defending oneself and family with lethal force, and not losing any sleep about it, does not mean one doesn’t have sympathy or empathy, nor that one doesn’t wish the world wasn’t as violent as it is… it simply means one is willing to defend themselves BECAUSE the world is violent.

I am making a guess that if your child used lethal force than you feel its ok based on this quote? So for you then if you child was being bullied than you would be ok if she shot and killed her bullies because they were taking her self respect, self confidence and self esteem there for justifys lethal force?

Here you go with these grossly fallacious arguments. The fact that you cannot seem to differentiate between a body slam, freestyle wrestling throw etc and shooting AND killing someone is really quite unsettling.

You expect your kids to stand up to bullies this gives me the impression expect meaning to me, if they don't then do this, you dont have high regard for them or are disappointed in them. It seem to me you are trying to teach your children self esteem but using the term "expect" which comes off as do and I love you don't and I think less of you really can hurt a child's self esteem.

Hmmmm you make some very strange leaps in your thought process. I expect my kids to treat others kindly, I expect my kids to be honest, I expect my kids to work hard… so, if they don’t do those things you think that means I don’t love them? Did you just make that up? Being disappointed in poor behavior does not mean parent don’t love their children. Yes, I expect my children to stick up for others who can not do it for themselves and yes, if they participated in bullying, indirectly or directly, I would be disappointed, just I like I would be if they stole something from the corner store. To try and assert that that equates to a lack of love is again, simply fallacious.

 

[Aiki Lee]

I think I will have to bow out of this thread.

I will gladly read any replies to me if it is something that you really need me to answer please send me a PM.

While I do not agree entirely with your position, I thank you for expressing a different perspective. Your opinion is valued even if it is not shared, at least by me anyway.

 

[Rayban]

Scenario:

Man taunts a lion for a very long time and each time he gets away before the lion can catch him.

On the last day, the lion catches and eats him.

Do you think he is a victim of a savage mauling? Or an idiot for tempting fate way too often?

I use a lion because clearly, for the entire year, the larger (I don't like calling him a fat kid) student has the ability to completely out gun the smaller bully. He either chose not to or couldn't because the bully ran away after goading a response.

The feeling of helplessness and depression (which is subjective to the individual) is one of the most powerful emotive forces ever. It clouds judgment and inserts only one thought into your mind. "end the threat to stop the feelings".

3rd parties can always look in from the outside and make judgment calls not available to those involved. Being there is a very very different and potent experience. This is why I echo most other peoples remarks about understanding it when you've been through it. Even though I had a very harrowing time in primary and high school, I will never understand it as close as those involved.

 

[K831]

I saw this posted elsewhere;

http://www.caseyheynes.com/a-tribute-to-a-gentle-giant/