Fastest Man on the planet for Multipower Brand.

[JR 137]

What are you talking about? It says

I clearly see a F, an equal sign, a M and an A. And the F is on the opposite side of the equal sign than the M and A. Pretty sure you just thwarted yourself with your own link.

I know you can access the link, however if you look closer it's not as cut and dry as the "F=MA" people are making it out to be. There's a few different forces that need to be considered, different accelerations, and different masses.

Many seem to think it's strictly their mass x how fast they move whatever limb = how hard they'll hit. It's actually the EFFECTIVE mass they're using/hitting with x the acceleration of the object they hit. The object that was hit accelerated in a few different directions.

Then there's "punch energy transfer and power." I think a few too many people think this and force = ma are one in the same. They're not.

Not say you personally get it or don't; just saying by reading a lot of posts here and other places, clearly many posters aren't getting the whole picture.

Also note acceleration and velocity aren't the same thing.

 

[JR 137]

Depending on the technique:
M = fist mass, or
M = body mass.

... right?

Depends

The only way to truly know how much body mass someone's using (effective mass) is to measure the force an object was hit with then divide that by the acceleration of the object that was hit.

People change the effective mass all the time for the same technique.

F= MA, M=F/A, and A=F/M.

 

[Tez3]

I love it when you lot talk dirty

I think for most of us the punch is hard enough if it knocks the person out you want knocking out.

 

[JR 137]

I love it when you lot talk dirty

I think for most of us the punch is hard enough if it knocks the person out you want knocking out.

Absolutely. I just felt like waxing poetical here.

 

[drop bear]

It's his technique that is impressive, not his speed, which is just "really good" and very far from "the best" in any standard.

Yeah. But Ali beat better fighters. That was the impressive aspect of his boxing.

 

[drop bear]

Depending on the technique:
M = fist mass, or
M = body mass.

... right?

Fist mass is interesting as I think it has a big effect. Which throws off the results a bit.

 

[Steve]

Wouldn't the size of the surface area on impact and density of the fist also have an influence on this? I mean, if I get hit by a 2 lbs pillow travelling at the same velocity as a 2 lbs fist as a 2 lbs ball bearing or a 2 lbs pointy object, the end result is going to be different.

Understanding that I was a philosophy/English guy, and not science.

 

[Tez3]

I have a cracking book on Wado Ryu karate, it's invaluable but the writer Shingo Ohgami, who was promoted to 5th Dan by Wado Ryu's founder in 1974 is of a scientific mind as well. In the part about 'hand techniques' he has the techniques of course but also 3 pages of equations! Maegeri ( front kick) has a page of equations all to itself, even blocks get equations though not so many. they may as well be in Martian for all I understand them, I wish I did because the rest of the book is beautifully clear and detailed I think it would add to my knowledge but that's never going to happen, I am maths blind, I cannot understand numbers and certainly not equations, they really don't compute for me.

 

[mograph]

I love it when you lot talk dirty

I think for most of us the punch is hard enough if it knocks the person out you want knocking out.

Oh, sure. Be practical.

 

[JR 137]

Wouldn't the size of the surface area on impact and density of the fist also have an influence on this? I mean, if I get hit by a 2 lbs pillow travelling at the same velocity as a 2 lbs fist as a 2 lbs ball bearing or a 2 lbs pointy object, the end result is going to be different.

Understanding that I was a philosophy/English guy, and not science.

It's easier to understand if you keep everything with the same and only change one thing.

The smaller the object (keeping the force the same), the greater the pressure.

Pressure = Force/Area

So... if I stand on the instep of your foot with all my weight while wearing sneakers, it won't hurt too much. If I take off the sneakers and put on high heeled shoes and stepped on the same foot with all my weight, it'll hurt way more. If I sharpen that heel to a point like a pencil and stand on the same spot with all my weight, it'll go through your foot (provided the heel doesn't snap). The only thing I did in that was change the surface area.

As far as density, don't confuse density and hardness. Most denser objects are harder, but not all are. Water is denser than ice, yet ice is significantly harder (water expands when it freezes).

Getting hit with a harder object hurts more (when the force, mass, and surface area are kept the same) because there's less give. A 10 lb pillow being dropped on you isn't going to hurt nearly as much as if a 10 lb metal block will (assuming they're the same size and shape; I guess the metal block would have to be hollow). It's like running into a brick wall vs running into the same brick wall with a mat on it at the same speed. The softer the object, the better it absorbs the force and slows you down. There's a limit though - if the mat is too soft it won't be effective.

 

[Steve]

So that all jives.

It's easier to understand if you keep everything with the same and only change one thing.

The smaller the object (keeping the force the same), the greater the pressure.

Pressure = Force/Area

So... if I stand on the instep of your foot with all my weight while wearing sneakers, it won't hurt too much. If I take off the sneakers and put on high heeled shoes and stepped on the same foot with all my weight, it'll hurt way more. If I sharpen that heel to a point like a pencil and stand on the same spot with all my weight, it'll go through your foot (provided the heel doesn't snap). The only thing I did in that was change the surface area.

As far as density, don't confuse density and hardness. Most denser objects are harder, but not all are. Water is denser than ice, yet ice is significantly harder (water expands when it freezes).

Getting hit with a harder object hurts more (when the force, mass, and surface area are kept the same) because there's less give. A 10 lb pillow being dropped on you isn't going to hurt nearly as much as if a 10 lb metal block will (assuming they're the same size and shape; I guess the metal block would have to be hollow). It's like running into a brick wall vs running into the same brick wall with a mat on it at the same speed. The softer the object, the better it absorbs the force and slows you down. There's a limit though - if the mat is too soft it won't be effective.

so all iother things being equal, a small fist and a hard fist will both increase the amount of damage done. Right?

 

[JR 137]

So that all jives.
so all iother things being equal, a small fist and a hard fist will both increase the amount of damage done. Right?

Yup. If a 5 year old could generate as much force as a full grown adult, the 5 year old's punch will hurt a lot more. At least if they hit the same spot; getting hit in the nuts by one is going to hurt a lot more than getting hit in the stomach by the other, all else being equal.

Another way to look at it - push someone with your palm. Poke them with one finger, using the same force (assuming your fingers don't bend/give). Which hurts more? Again - in the same spot.

Hitting with a loose fist will hurt less than a tight fist - the loose fist has more give (same fist size and force).

Putting this all together - it's not as simple as F=MA

 

[drop bear]

So that all jives.
so all iother things being equal, a small fist and a hard fist will both increase the amount of damage done. Right?

The size of the fist at the striking area. Otherwise you just get more mass.

 

[Steve]

So, what I'm hearing is that being hit by a small, strong, fast 5 year old would be a real pain in my mass.

 

[JR 137]

Fist mass is interesting as I think it has a big effect. Which throws off the results a bit.

Yes, a bigger fist is going to have more mass. But if the boxing glove size fisted guy throws "arm punches," he's not going to have more effective mass as the average size fisted guy who's throwing a textbook boxing punch - from his feet all the way through his hands. Unless of course the average fist sized guy weights 100 lbs with a brick in his pocket and the other guy is Andre the Giant sized.

 

[drop bear]

Yes, a bigger fist is going to have more mass. But if the boxing glove size fisted guy throws "arm punches," he's not going to have more effective mass as the average size fisted guy who's throwing a textbook boxing punch - from his feet all the way through his hands. Unless of course the average fist sized guy weights 100 lbs with a brick in his pocket and the other guy is Andre the Giant sized.

Well also how much of the hand you actually hit with. If you had massive knuckles. Which increase the sise of the fist it may not mean a massive increase in the surface area you hit with.

popeye forearms for example.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I know you can access the link, however if you look closer it's not as cut and dry as the "F=MA" people are making it out to be. There's a few different forces that need to be considered, different accelerations, and different masses.

Many seem to think it's strictly their mass x how fast they move whatever limb = how hard they'll hit. It's actually the EFFECTIVE mass they're using/hitting with x the acceleration of the object they hit. The object that was hit accelerated in a few different directions.

Then there's "punch energy transfer and power." I think a few too many people think this and force = ma are one in the same. They're not.

Not say you personally get it or don't; just saying by reading a lot of posts here and other places, clearly many posters aren't getting the whole picture.

Also note acceleration and velocity aren't the same thing.

To clarify, I was not being serious. I was poking a bit of fun at some of the posters lately who will make conclusions from the same incomplete logic I did. I forgot about Poe's Law.

 

[JR 137]

Well also how much of the hand you actually hit with. If you had massive knuckles. Which increase the sise of the fist it may not mean a massive increase in the surface area you hit with.

popeye forearms for example.

Mas Oyama's knuckles?

I'd post a pic, but I don't know how.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Fastest man on the planet

 

[TSDTexan]

Yeah. But Ali beat better fighters. That was the impressive aspect of his boxing.

He was the only one who could defeat a in his prime George Forman.
But the damage Forman did to his noodle is seen in his later years.