Ex-Soldier Stationed At Troubled Base.

[Makalakumu]

Being a jerk led to his shooting of all those people but that doesn't make good headlines, support a political view, or clean up the mental situation so that people can easily explain the violence.

Actually, claiming that he was a "jerk" instead of even acknowledging the possibility this might be related to PTSD supports the dominant political position. Many people assume we can send our soldiers off and bring them home and there will be no social/emotional consequences. This idea is actively promoted by military industrial complex. It allows people to easily explain away events like this so they can support the political views that promote the maintenance and expansion of global American hegemony. Acknowledging the brutal social and emotional effects of war on people and actually questioning the policies that place so much stress on people is FAR more difficult then simply calling the "perp" a "jerk" and dropping it.

In fact, I would say that the characterization of symptoms that are common with PTSD as "jerky" does far more harm to the people who need help because now it all gets explained away as defects in character.

It's time for American's to get real about the effects of these wars. Elder999 was right, we're going to see a lot more of this. Violence springs back on the people that perpetrate it...especially when you're on the wrong side of morality.

 

[ballen0351]

Actually, claiming that he was a "jerk" instead of even acknowledging the possibility this might be related to PTSD supports the dominant political position.

Well sorry but in this guys case even people that knew him before the military said he was a "jerk" and trouble maker. He wasnt even allowed to attend regular public high school he was sent to a school for problem kids.

And its people that look for any excuse for a behavior EXCEPT the obvious that sometimes people are just bad and it wouldnt matter how they were raised, what kind of drug they were addicted too, how many times there momma beat them, what neighborhood they grew up in, or if they went to war or not, they will ALWAYS be a bad person and giving them an excuse for that behavior causes others to follow the behavior.

 

[Makalakumu]

Sometimes kids with troubled pasts can go to war and get a solid dose of PTSD. My uncle was a trouble maker and was given a choice, enlist or jail. Vietnam came and the PTSD killed him twenty years later.

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[ballen0351]

Sometimes kids with troubled pasts can go to war and get a solid dose of PTSD. My uncle was a trouble maker and was given a choice, enlist or jail. Vietnam came and the PTSD killed him twenty years later.

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PTSD had nothing to do with this guy. He was a punk criminal who gunned down a Mother of 2 over a snow chain check point. Then he was running for his life from the police and was not prepared for the weather and froze to death. He used the "If you leave me Ill kill myself" as a control method on his girlfriend and I would venture he has been playing that line since he was a teen. The fist one to bring up PTSD was his babys mother who was trying to use it as an excuse to win full custody. PTSD is the new catch all in the court systems today. Every military person that gets arrested thats one of the first defenses thats used in court. Working drugs almost EVERY former or current military person I catch with drugs thats the first thing they tell me. "Sir I have PTSD im trying to cope that what I have $10,000 worth of heroin in my trunk"
Is there PTSD? 100% yes and its a serious problem that needs to be addressed but making excuses for every bad apple is not helping anyone. Its causing a "Boy who cried wolf" effect and doing a serious disservice to people that really need help.

The only one Ive seen trying to Politicize this is you. If it helps you make your anti-war argument but making a "victim" out of a thug then go for it but that dont fly with me.

 

[Makalakumu]

PTSD had nothing to do with this guy. He was a punk criminal who gunned down a Mother of 2 over a snow chain check point. Then he was running for his life from the police and was not prepared for the weather and froze to death. He used the "If you leave me Ill kill myself" as a control method on his girlfriend and I would venture he has been playing that line since he was a teen. The fist one to bring up PTSD was his babys mother who was trying to use it as an excuse to win full custody. PTSD is the new catch all in the court systems today. Every military person that gets arrested thats one of the first defenses thats used in court. Working drugs almost EVERY former or current military person I catch with drugs thats the first thing they tell me. "Sir I have PTSD im trying to cope that what I have $10,000 worth of heroin in my trunk"
Is there PTSD? 100% yes and its a serious problem that needs to be addressed but making excuses for every bad apple is not helping anyone. Its causing a "Boy who cried wolf" effect and doing a serious disservice to people that really need help.

The only one Ive seen trying to Politicize this is you. If it helps you make your anti-war argument but making a "victim" out of a thug then go for it but that dont fly with me.

You are making a political argument by denying that this case might have had anything to do with PTSD, because IF it is related, the whole situation is a MUCH messier then "he was just a thug".

 

[ballen0351]

You are making a political argument by denying that this case might have had anything to do with PTSD, because IF it is related, the whole situation is a MUCH messier then "he was just a thug".

And your ignoring the REAL victims here and trying to make this guy a martyr for your political agenda.

 

[jks9199]

Sorry, but in this particular case, he is a thug. And probably white supremacist affiliated, based on several of his tattoos. Everything I've seen says that Barnes had serious problems way before he went into the military, that he had problems while in, and was discharged involuntarily. Did he have some PTSD? Probably. Both ballen and I, as well as Drac, and lots of others on this forum have PTSD. PTSD is not a binary condition; it's not yes or no. It's a matter of degrees or a spectrum, kind of like burns. And it doesn't excuse or justify Barnes's actions here. He murdered a mother of two who was simply doing her job, trying to ensure his safety. I'm not hugely sympathetic, and quite honestly, I think he got off way too easy with an apparent death due to hypothermia.

 

[ballen0351]

You are making a political argument by denying that this case might have had anything to do with PTSD, because IF it is related, the whole situation is a MUCH messier then "he was just a thug".

We are on the same side when it come to treating our troops coming home. I agree PTSD is a serious issue and needs to be delt with. I also dont think the current adminstration nor the last one is doing enough for our returning troops. BUT in this case with this guy he was a scum bag long before he ever join the service and has been one long after he was kicked out in 09. And by making him the poster child for our returning troops and saying see look what can happen is just wrong and will cause more troops to aviod seeking help because they dont want to be lumped in with this thug

 

[Makalakumu]

It's very possible that PTSD is the impetus that pushes a guy like this over the edge. Whenever violence is committed by people coming home from a war zone, its going to be an issue. It's one of the hidden costs of war...and always has been.

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[ballen0351]

It's very possible that PTSD is the impetus that pushes a guy like this over the edge. Whenever violence is committed by people coming home from a war zone, its going to be an issue. It's one of the hidden costs of war...and always has been.

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but you can't blame every crime an ex soilder commits on going to war

 

[billc]

Big Don posted a thread on this guy that debunks the PTSD aspect of the case. This guy was a problem before the war, apparently did not even experience direct combat, not to say that being in the war zone isn't a stressor, and the reporting follows the typical veterans are either victims or perps.

 

[oftheherd1]

Sometimes kids with troubled pasts can go to war and get a solid dose of PTSD. My uncle was a trouble maker and was given a choice, enlist or jail. Vietnam came and the PTSD killed him twenty years later.

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Sorry for your loss sir. Regardless of the reason, it always hurts to lose a loved one.