Ex-Soldier Stationed At Troubled Base.

[MJS]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...ier-killing-stationed-at-deeply-troubled-base

The Iraq war veteran believed to have killed a park ranger Sunday was last stationed at a Washington base considered among the military's most troubled facilities, where suicides and violence among service members have reached record levels.
Authorities said they believed Benjamin Colton Barnes, 24 — who was found dead Monday, apparently of hypothermia, in Mount Rainier National Park — shot and killed Park Ranger Margaret Anderson, 34, on Sunday. He is also believed to have shot and wounded four people, two of them critically, earlier in the day at a New Year's party in Skyway, near Seattle, authorities said.
Barnes, a private first class, was discharged from the Army for misconduct in 2009 after he was charged with drunken driving and improperly transporting a privately owned weapon at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Wash. Lewis-McChord has drawn national attention for widespread problems with post-traumatic stress disorder among service members returning from Afghanistan and from Iraq, where Barnes served in 2007 and 2008.

I have to wonder if any of this could've been prevented.

 

[ballen0351]

I only hope his death was painful and slow.

 

[granfire]

I only hope his death was painful and slow.

Have mercy on troubled souls in desperate times.

Not a lot is known, is there.
But apparently there is trouble in paradise.
But if the area is the primary landing spot for returning veterans, they are certainly falling down on the job with those statistics.

 

[MAist25]

It's pretty sad actually. I dont know if there was any way to prevent something like this from happening but its certainly a tragedy. Often times the military is used as a way for people to straighten their lives out and give them a chance to make something of themselves, make a decent living, etc. To do something stupid like he did and get a dishonorable discharge probably gave him the sense that his life was ruined. The guy probably suffered from some mental issues following his deployment, probably did not have any college education and now was dishonorably discharged from the military. This guy pretty much had no options left to make anything of himself and he was probably very stressed out. I also read he was suicidal. I'm not saying I feel sorry for the guy, but he was definitely someone who needed help and didnt get it. The guy was just a mess.

 

[Big Don]

There were a pair of guys, when I was at Fort Lewis, long before the merger with McChord, that threw one of their wives off a cliff.
They got caught pretty quickly...

 

[ballen0351]

This guy was kicked out of the military in 2009. He wasn't crazy. He was smart enough to know what he did, and that he didn't want to go to jail. He wasnt suicidal I suspect he would make the comments to his Girlfriend as a method of controlling her. If he was suicidal he would have committed suicide not froze to death running from the police. I have no pitty for him.

This is the real victim:

http://www.odmp.org/officer/21076-park-ranger-margaret-anderson

 

[ballen0351]

Real Victims:

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Murdered-Ranger-remembered-by-family-co-workers-136547008.html


Sunday, the 34-year-old mother of two died after being shot through the side of her patrol car at a road block in the park.

Her daughters are just one and three years old.

Anderson and her family moved to the small town of Eatonville about a year ago. She volunteered at the local fire station.
Firefighters there said the killing of their friend has hit hard. “This was somebody most of the people in our department already knew and were friends with,” said Chief Dexter Habeck. “So we've lost a friend."
Anderson's husband is also a ranger and was on duty at the time of the shooting in a different area of the park. He left with a chaplain after being told the terrible news. A park spokesman said co-workers were in shock.

“We absolutely take it personally. It’s a very small staff up here, everybody knows everyone. Everybody was friends with Margaret. She didn’t have an enemy in the world,” said Kevin Bacher. “She was one of the most positive people you could ever meet. The sort of person who would drop everything and do something for you at a moment's notice, and did.”

 

[elder999]

I only hope his death was painful and slow.

Freezing to death is relatively painless, by all accounts pleasant, and slow.

We'll be seeing more of this stuff.

 

[Makalakumu]

We'll be seeing more of this stuff.

PTSD

We can't send hundreds of thousands of men on multiple tours to combat zones and not expect a large number to come back and be broken by the experience. This death, IMO, is just another casualty of the unjust, unlawful, and completely unnecessary wars we have spilling out all over the world.

 

[Tez3]

PTSD

We can't send hundreds of thousands of men on multiple tours to combat zones and not expect a large number to come back and be broken by the experience. This death, IMO, is just another casualty of the unjust, unlawful, and completely unnecessary wars we have spilling out all over the world.

This is mostly what happens with PTSD, that and a spiral of self destruction rather than killing others. Tragic and heart breaking.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...Afghanistan-hero-bear-horrors-war-longer.html

 

[sfs982000]

I know that there are programs that the military has for members suffering from PTSD and they are "screened" upon returning from deployments. It's a step in the right direction considering when I came back from my deployment in 2007 there really wasn't any kind of assistance offered like it is now. Not that I needed it myself, but I do know of a few folks that we lost because of it and I think that at least in a couple of those cases it could've been prevented.
Now this particular case is a little different in my opinion since the member was discharged back in 2009 and has had a history of trouble, it makes me think that there were probably things going on mentally with this guy probably going back prior to his enlistment. Military life can certainly help troubled folks get a fresh on life, but then again sometimes it doesn't.

 

[MJS]

Hmm...I have to agree with ballen....I don't think that this guy was as crazy as he was making people think. As for him not having any options left....why wouldn't he? I'm sure he's not the first, nor the last, to have issues from the war, and I'm sure there are venues of help, but of course, just like any rehab, its up to the person to want that help and to seek it out.

 

[Brian King]

PTSD is a diagnosable and treatable disorder. To paraphrase Grossman's "On Combat" lectures it and book (PTSD) is more like the flu than pregnancy, meaning that it has various measurable severity levels...touch of the flu vs full blown case of the flu as compared to pregnancy- you either are or you are not. It does not mean that each person diagnosed with the disorder is going to be immersing themselves into self destructive or harmful behaviors. The military and health organizations have many more screening tools and are much better at diagnosing PTSD than ever before so there will be more cases of it diagnosed. There are a number of criteria that have to be met for a true diagnosis rather than people attributing behavior to the disorder. People have a misconception about the disorder. This misconception is dangerous cause it can lead to misunderstandings and shame on the part of the sufferer of PTSD as well as their friends, family, and coworkers.

The shooter in this case according to people around him was a jerk prior to the military, during his short time in the military, and after his time in the military. Being a military veteran while also being a jerk does not fall under the diagnosis for PTSD any more than his abundance of tattoos fall under the diagnosis for PTSD. Being a jerk led to his shooting of all those people but that doesn't make good headlines, support a political view, or clean up the mental situation so that people can easily explain the violence.

That he had real issues is not doubted, that he engaged in self destructive behavior is seen in his photo's and reports of his behavior. Blaming military service is an excuse and a whitewash of other issues. It does a very real disservice to people and families that are working thru PTSD issues and those that might be seeking help. It does disservice to others that are trying to work thru issues that are not PTSD but might have some symptoms in common with the disorder, but will not seek professional help because their self diagnosed disorder has a stigma attached to it, rendering them left on their own trying to treat a disorder that they do not have while not treating an issue that they do have.

Another article on the shooter along with a radio interview. Interesting
http://mynorthwest.com/11/603603/Cops-Veteran-who-killed-park-ranger-didnt-have-PTSD

There are many lessons to be learned from these incidents (the shooting of four at the party in Skyway and the shooting death of the Park Ranger) Making a victim of the shooter is not one of them. Doing so is a mistake in my opinion that robs valuable lessons akin to someone burning books to prove a point.

Regards
Brian King

 

[elder999]

As I said, we'll be seeing more of this-it's not simply "PTSD," though that may be a factor.

It's a cultural issue, though.

WASHINGTON (AFPS, July 16, 2009) - Army officials have released the results of a study aimed at determining possible causes for a cluster of violent crimes that took place between 2005 and 2008 at Fort Carson, Colo.

During that time, 10 soldiers from a brigade combat team committed homicide or participated in homicides in and around Colorado. In the same timeframe, four soldiers from other Fort Carson units also committed homicide.

The crimes took place during a busy period of deployments for the brigade. In 2004, a brigade combat team deployed from Korea to Iraq. Upon completion of its tour, the Army permanently stationed the brigade at Fort Carson. Less than a year later, the unit deployed to Iraq for a 15-month tour.

 

[Carol]

This guy was kicked out of the military in 2009. He wasn't crazy. He was smart enough to know what he did, and that he didn't want to go to jail. He wasnt suicidal I suspect he would make the comments to his Girlfriend as a method of controlling her. If he was suicidal he would have committed suicide not froze to death running from the police. I have no pitty for him.

This is the real victim:

http://www.odmp.org/officer/21076-park-ranger-margaret-anderson

Thank you for remembering who the real victim is here :asian:

 

[Sukerkin]

Wise words, Brian - couldn't Rep you (stack full) so it has to be done in the full glare of the public. Likewise regarding the compassionate words from Carol :bows:.

 

[Wild Bill]

The shooter in this case according to people around him was a jerk prior to the military, during his short time in the military, and after his time in the military. Being a military veteran while also being a jerk does not fall under the diagnosis for PTSD any more than his abundance of tattoos fall under the diagnosis for PTSD. Being a jerk led to his shooting of all those people but that doesn't make good headlines, support a political view, or clean up the mental situation so that people can easily explain the violence.

That he had real issues is not doubted, that he engaged in self destructive behavior is seen in his photo's and reports of his behavior. Blaming military service is an excuse and a whitewash of other issues. It does a very real disservice to people and families that are working thru PTSD issues and those that might be seeking help. It does disservice to others that are trying to work thru issues that are not PTSD but might have some symptoms in common with the disorder, but will not seek professional help because their self diagnosed disorder has a stigma attached to it, rendering them left on their own trying to treat a disorder that they do not have while not treating an issue that they do have.

Another article on the shooter along with a radio interview. Interesting
http://mynorthwest.com/11/603603/Cops-Veteran-who-killed-park-ranger-didnt-have-PTSD

There are many lessons to be learned from these incidents (the shooting of four at the party in Skyway and the shooting death of the Park Ranger) Making a victim of the shooter is not one of them. Doing so is a mistake in my opinion that robs valuable lessons akin to someone burning books to prove a point.

Regards
Brian King

I was military police for six years. As much as I hate to admit it not everyone who wears the uniform is a hero. I had to deal with rapists, child abusers, racists, gangsters, and thieves. Most of the criminals I met were bad hats before they joined the military. In fact cops were the biggest thieves when it came to equipment. My roommate for the first 8 weeks of my enlistment left training with several hundred dollars worth of other people's cell phones and cds. He also enjoyed rape porn.

The overwelming majority of military veterans are good people that are'nt going on a killing spree any time soon. Unfortunatley PTSD just gives the criminals another excuse for their bad behavior.

 

[ballen0351]

Unfortunatley PTSD just gives the criminals another excuse for their bad behavior.

And thats all it is. A defense in court when they are caught. PTSD isnt going to cause someone to go become a criminal. A criminal is already a criminal but PTSD sure sounds good to a jury when your caught later.

 

[Tez3]

We've had very little behaviour here that we've had to deal with towards others that can be put down to PTSD, most of those with it are self destructive or will smash up objects rather than people. We've had more 'angry' drunks since the lads came back and perhaps more fights. I say perhaps because it could be just because we have all regiments back at the same time and they fight as a leisure activity anyway. It's rarely serious. I expect divorces and separations are up probably for the reasons they've always been up, married at too young an age, the girls having different expectations of service life etc. etc Talking to a midwife the other day and births have gone right up too, not for the obvious reasons of the men being away but because many want to have something of them as a legacy if you like.
Looking at statistics here the problems the service peple have if they do have them are homelessness, alcoholism, depression/mental illness and petty crime rather than any sort of killing sprees. Flashbacks seem to rate among the highest problems ex service people have and this seems to lead to depression and suicide rather than killing others.
We've just had a new iniative put in here.
http://www.yorksandhumber.nhs.uk/news.php?id=361

Plus we have this
http://www.combatstress.org.uk/

I've put up both links because, just in case, someone somewhere reading might like to know about them.

 

[granfire]

And thats all it is. A defense in court when they are caught. PTSD isnt going to cause someone to go become a criminal. A criminal is already a criminal but PTSD sure sounds good to a jury when your caught later.

Well, everything with a good abreviation/agronym is good....

Like any bodily discomfort, once it's reduced to a few capital letters....it's a DISEASE now....

PTSD might be a new one, but finding excuses isn't...I think somewhere in the 70s they started with that....bad childhood etc.....