"Every cop should learn BJj" Do you agree?

[drop bear]

I think it's unlikely the cop would actually kill you...

I train with half of them.

 

[ballen0351]

Ok.

Hes the same guy from the OP he pushes BJJ all the time. Thats his thing. And I haven't once said cops shouldn't train. I simply said BJJ isnt the end all be all. Also to repeat what someone already said if you could get cops to spend as much time at DT as they would at BJJ it would have the same if not better outcome.

But just for argument sake how long would it take you to teach a rookie enough BJJ to be effective on the street for their entire career? because generally most cops get maybe 2 weeks of DT in the academy and never train again.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I train with half of them.

Must be a really really really big school....

 

[ballen0351]

Must be a really really really big school....

Or really really small police force in Australia lol

 

[drop bear]

Or really really small police force in Australia lol

Small station.

 

[drop bear]

Hes the same guy from the OP he pushes BJJ all the time. Thats his thing. And I haven't once said cops shouldn't train. I simply said BJJ isnt the end all be all. Also to repeat what someone already said if you could get cops to spend as much time at DT as they would at BJJ it would have the same if not better outcome.

But just for argument sake how long would it take you to teach a rookie enough BJJ to be effective on the street for their entire career? because generally most cops get maybe 2 weeks of DT in the academy and never train again.

We get guys full contact fighting MMA in 12 weeks pretty much full time training.

That is what I would consider the least amount of training that an ethical instructor would provide before engaging in a full contact fight.

2 weeks is setting up people to get hurt.

 

[drop bear]

Hes the same guy from the OP he pushes BJJ all the time. Thats his thing. And I haven't once said cops shouldn't train. I simply said BJJ isnt the end all be all. Also to repeat what someone already said if you could get cops to spend as much time at DT as they would at BJJ it would have the same if not better outcome.

But just for argument sake how long would it take you to teach a rookie enough BJJ to be effective on the street for their entire career? because generally most cops get maybe 2 weeks of DT in the academy and never train again.

And no I don't think if a person did DT for the Same time as BJJ they would get the same results. Unless the standard of DT was the same as BJJ.

And then we go back to the accountability issue.

Which if you are setting people loose to fight criminals with two weeks training. Probably isn't there.

 

[CB Jones]

Our agency’s mission isn’t putting instructional information out to the public. It’s to give our officers tactics to use in the field that helps protect them physically and legally (civil and criminal)


Ok so let’s say my agency takes your advice and replaces it DT tactics and trains bjj.

Does BJJ have certifiable methods for escorting (compliant, passive resistant, and assaultive resistant)?

Or handcuffing? (Compliant standing and prone, passive resistant standing and prone, and assaultive resistant)

Takedowns and handcuffing?

Who is the certifying organization for bjj for legal purposes. And does this organization except liability issues with their tactics?

And how long does it take to be certified in bjj?

 

[Buka]

I can't figure out where the argument comes from. Drop Bear, how much time have you spent in the United States? How much time have you spent in a TMA? How much time in police work?

Probably as much time as I've spent in Australia. Which is why I don't try to tell people what it's like. But, hey, I suppose I could watch youtube videos on Australia.

But then I'd have to go buy a new uniform.

And when you speak of "no accountability" I find that highly insulting. I really do. I don't think you would recognize accountability if it bit you on the backside.

 

[pdg]

I can't figure out where the argument comes from. Drop Bear, how much time have you spent in the United States? How much time have you spent in a TMA? How much time in police work?

Probably as much time as I've spent in Australia. Which is why I don't try to tell people what it's like. But, hey, I suppose I could watch youtube videos on Australia.

But then I'd have to go buy a new uniform.

View attachment 21971

And when you speak of "no accountability" I find that highly insulting. I really do. I don't think you would recognize accountability if it bit you on the backside.

I had heard that all Australian wildlife has only one purpose - to kill you.

Now you've provided photographic evidence that it's true!

 

[drop bear]

Small station.

They do get issued guns though.

 

[lklawson]

Yeah. The secret evidence is always a big red flag. Especially when other systems seem to be able to create public evidence without issue.

Doesn't seem particularly secret. Just seems that you haven't been willing to go look at it. Might require you to go take training with some of them.but you haven't and somehow I doubt that will change.

 

[drop bear]

I can't figure out where the argument comes from. Drop Bear, how much time have you spent in the United States? How much time have you spent in a TMA? How much time in police work?

Probably as much time as I've spent in Australia. Which is why I don't try to tell people what it's like. But, hey, I suppose I could watch youtube videos on Australia.

But then I'd have to go buy a new uniform.

View attachment 21971

And when you speak of "no accountability" I find that highly insulting. I really do. I don't think you would recognize accountability if it bit you on the backside.

Would you prefer me to say 2 weeks of pretty meh training to then expect a person to fight a bad guy and not hurt them is straight up unethical.

It is a culture reflected in my job. It is a culture reflected in the Australian police. We read about it as a culture reflected in kemosabe job. Where I assume the have real people who can get hurt. And it is a culture reflected by the comments by cops that I have posted.

People don't magically fight differently country to country. There is no American version of dropping a guy and getting his hand behind his back that differs from the Australian version.

Convenience will trump ethics in DT. Happens everywhere.

But that is not the point. My point is that people need to know if they do the very serious buisness of fighting people for a living. Which I have done. Then they need to do effective training from an ethical source.

Insulting people is a lot less dire than getting people unnecessarily hurt

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Doesn’t BJJ tho teach you how to control someone effectively once on the ground? Or wrestling?

Problem I see with a lot of Krav is things don’t go like their drills say they will. So practicing an art like BJJ/Wrestling teaches you how to control yourself and opponent.

That’s not inherent in Krav - it’s a gap in how it’s trained in many places. The drills aren’t intended to show how things will go, but to build transitions to take advantage of the next opening, whatever it may be.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And untested systems, unknown ability of the instructors, A mountain of political compromise, Isolationism. Niche building.

It is all the TMA issues plus, because the students don't even really get a choice.

And it craps on people not only can it not work. Which is hard in a fight.

But if it doesn't work. It is still assumed to work. So that all those unreal expectations that you get out of TMA. Are the official expectations of what will happen in a fight.

Which is why the old school guys hit people and the new school guys jits.

There are a lot of unsupported suppositions in that post.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If it doesn't have evidence anywhere then it is an unsupported system.

A million cops using it is terrible evidence.

So now actual, daily use in-context is worse evidence than sport????

 

[drop bear]

Doesn't seem particularly secret. Just seems that you haven't been willing to go look at it. Might require you to go take training with some of them.but you haven't and somehow I doubt that will change.

Trained with cops. Trained cop systems. Restrained a bulk ton of bad guys. Handcuffed a bulk ton of bad guys. Worked with cops in the field. Thrown guys in the back of divvies. Trained with martial artists. Worked with martial artists, worked with BJJers.

Fought guys with knives, sticks, glasses and bats.

And using that to address what I see and hear off YouTube.

If you just wanted me to tell you I am a subject matter expert on clamping guys and that most cops can't fight. Then fine.

 

[lklawson]

Trained with cops. Trained cop systems. Restrained a bulk ton of bad guys. Handcuffed a bulk ton of bad guys. Worked with cops in the field. Thrown guys in the back of divvies. Trained with martial artists. Worked with martial artists, worked with BJJers.

Fought guys with knives, sticks, glasses and bats.

And using that to address what I see and hear off YouTube.

If you just wanted me to tell you I am a subject matter expert on clamping guys and that most cops can't fight. Then fine.

So you trained DT in the US?

 

[drop bear]

So now actual, daily use in-context is worse evidence than sport????

Yeah. Because there isn't the consistency.

And what evidence?

 

[drop bear]

So you trained DT in the US?

No. You are suggesting it is different?