Espada y Daga

[Toasty]

Hiya guys,
Just as a general infomation sort of thing (dont want any flame wars...)
What would everyones idea of (not gonna use the word "best") a most "efficient" espada y daga style/system be?
Remember this is just a general question so be concise but also be brief... after that maybe we can get into pros and cons and whys..., not "my style is better than yours" crap though.

thanks
Rob
p.s. efficient may not be the best word either - basically easiest to learn while still being effective is kinda what i'm looking for.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Toasty

Hiya guys,
Just as a general infomation sort of thing (dont want any flame wars...)
What would everyones idea of (not gonna use the word "best") a most "efficient" espada y daga style/system be?
Remember this is just a general question so be concise but also be brief... after that maybe we can get into pros and cons and whys..., not "my style is better than yours" crap though.

thanks
Rob
p.s. efficient may not be the best word either - basically easiest to learn while still being effective is kinda what i'm looking for.

Rob,

Not sure how to answer this one. I have not studied multiple arts to the point to be able to make this statement. I can only give from my point of view for a single art, and the other art I am studying I have not learned enough about the Stick and Dagger portion to make an objective statement.

So, unless someone has studied many arts or has a great insight, I do not see the discussion going where you want it too. Which makes me sad for I think it would be a good discussion.

Rich

 

[Seigi]

Hello,

For the limited time i have been training in Escrima. My instructor has shown us basic Crossada motions to strike, lock & disarm single attacks from the long & short stick.

Sorry i can't give more, but i've only been training for about a year.

Sincerely,

Enoch T. Carlton

 

[Dan Anderson]

Hi Toasty,
I personally haven't heard of any system which specializes in espada y daga. Many Filipino systems have espada y daga as part of their teaching but specializing? If you hear of one, let me know.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[redfive]

I would agree with Mr. Anderson. I have studied many Stick systems and they all have espada y daga techniques, Or as Remy would say, translations, others will say, making the connections from empty hand to stick, to doble baston, to daga, and then to espada y daga. Esapada y daga is usualy done with stick and knife, but some will use the bolo and knife. Even if you study just single stick. If you pick up a knife in your left hand or live hand the espada y daga will start to come out. Thats the true joy of the Filipino systems. All the empty hand and weapon techniques can be enterchanged, with small modifications. So even if you do meet someone who claims to teach only espada y daga. I bet he will be able to fight with two sticks just fine and with one stick or cane, his live hand should take the place of the knife. If he can't do anything with out a stick and knife or bolo and knife, then I would worry about him. This is a standard among most practitioners and students of most Filipino systems. As far as which is best, well all systems have something to offer. Some things you may like, other techniques you may not like. So I take what I like from all the systems I have studied and keep them and work on them. To not do so would be to limit my self to only one way. But as far as real blade work in the sword and dager area, Ernesto Presas is very good. And W. Hock Hochheim's Archipelago Combatives has some great espada y daga work in it.

Your friend in the Arts, Redfive

 

[thekuntawman]

hi,
actually most of the people who say "eskrima" and are from the visayas have espada y daga as there specialty. i agree there is very few people here in the US who really specialize in that technique. when i was visiting the philippines, and i got to get around and met other practicioners, many of the old people i met showed me the basic hits with a knife in the right or left hand. when my grandpa showed me the pekiti tirsia/abaniko technique, he taught it to me with the knife in my right hand. we just didnt call it "espada at daga".

i think it will be hard to decide what style is the best because there are so many out there. do you mean best in the US, or the philippines. do you mean the best for fighting or the most developed style. or do you meant best of the popular styles. almost everybody knows how to play espada at daga, but few people actually know how to fight with it. my advice is learn from whoever you can, and then play with the techniques.

 

[arnisandyz]

Most efficient, easy to learn? As others have posted, this is difficult to reply to. Not only do many FMA styles contain espada y daga methods, what is hard or easy for me may be different for you. I agree with kuntawman, Most "eskrima" styles will have more focus on long and short than other styles, but does that make them more efficient or easy to learn?

I think Edgar Sulite's lameco has some good, easy to learn long and short methods. I only viewed a video and have no formal training in it, but it seemed very easy to pick up on. A long and short method taught to me by my uncles seems also very easy to learn, and is probably more common. it is basically a largo style, utilizing the daga as a support weapon to check or cut the long range weapon of the opponent or live hand of the opponent should they attempt a disarm or control on the long range weapon. The daga rarely goes in to corto for a body shot, instead, it stays long range.

How do some close range systems like Balintiwak or Modern Arnis handle espada y daga (if they do)? It would seem the close range that they get into utilizing the stick puts them in range for a direct thrust/slash from the daga as well.

Regards

AndyZ

 

[lhommedieu]

San Miguel Eskrima, which is Momoy Canete's expression of Doce Pares, is primarily an "espada y daga" art. It is considered to be an "old" style of Doce Pares, wherein the use of the daga, and an orientation towards a cut and thrust sword, dictate that the practitioner's distancing and timing are slightly different than other FMA's.

The previous contributor is correct in assuming that the daga poses a threat to a fighter who is interested in fighting at close range; many of the drills and routines of San Miguel Eskrima are intended address this issue. Generally speaking, the stick (or sword) is used at largo range to either (a) destroy the opponent's defences with power strikes, (b) [and this is more relevant to using a sword] chip away at the opponent's defences by cutting his fingers, hands, arms, etc.; the daga is used in this sense as well, and (c) collapse the opponent's structure. In all cases, the daga is used as a kill shot once the opponent cannot defend himself.

This does not make San Miguel Eskrima a "better" art, but it is a unique art insofar as it teaches the distancing and timing skills necessary to fight with espada y daga. There are other FMA's that specialize at close-quarter fighting (Pekiti Tirsia, e.g.), and the skills required at this range are just as fascinating and difficult to learn.

Mark Wiley dedicated a chapter to San Miguel Eskrima in his "Filipino Fighting Arts." You can also learn more at:

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze4fs8i/index.htm and also at:

www.eskrima.com

Best Wishes,

Steve Lamade
San Miguel Eskrima