Escape from Headlock

[Bigshadow]

Alright, I admit, I wasn't thinking headlock in the sense of wrastling around with my brother. My thoughts were more like a choke from behind (from beginning to end), it is still a lock. I never once thought about the usual headlock (nuggie style). However, there are many good ways of getting out of that too, that really use the same prinicples I discussed earlier.

Agreed, though, a headlock from the front or side isn't so much for choking.

 

[rutherford]

A front headlock is very similar to a guillotine choke. You can definitely apply a choke from that position. I just don't think it's as likely, unless you happen to be facing somebody who is very good at getting vascular chokes and doesn't want to use their knees, take you to the ground, or bash you off something sharp and hard.

 

[Jimi]

I understand that not everyone will choke from a headlock Rutherford, but would you really go for knee strikes like in a Thai Camp, or old school street fight stuff and ram him into a door, bar etc... rather than choke him from a headlock that's right there. Granted horsing around with your brother is a far cry from if some @$$ on the street gets a hold of your head, I can't imagine they would be so kind as to not try to choke me out. If some-one has me in a headlock, ( and potentialy a choke )they have access to 3 life support systems so to speak. My breathing, my blood flow to my brain and my spinal cord. Although some people like to add insult to injury, with so many people training MMA & BJJ nowa days, choking is the nartural progression from a headlock( Just ask any Gracie Family member ). Unless you prefer to just destroy the neck in a break somehow. It is quite possible to do other things from a headlock, but not going for a choke from a headlock is a no no among a lot of arts nowa days. This is just a matter of opinion. By the way most people would have less than 2 minutes before passing out from a choke.

 

[SAVAGE]

Okay guys this is how its done...

If they have gotten through to you and have a good choke on you, you only have about 2 minutes before you go out so it has to be done quit fast.

Two minutes...you are being optimistic...try about 20 seconds!

I have thought alot about this...one is to let your body go limp and the guy will think you are knocked out...then when he lets you go...KICK HIS ***!!!

or in the case of a trained MAist...try tapping his arm...if his muscle memory serves him well (and you), he just may let go!

I know they sound like dumb Ideas and they probablly are...but hey you gotta wade through the dumb ideas to get to a good one!


Remember never hold your farts in....would anyone like to know why?

 

[Marginal]

I understand that not everyone will choke from a headlock Rutherford, but would you really go for knee strikes like in a Thai Camp, or old school street fight stuff and ram him into a door, bar etc... rather than choke him from a headlock that's right there.

Or go for a hip throw/takedown. The classic noogie pose doesn't seem like it'd be all that great a position to throw punches, much less knees. That's somethign I've always been bugged by. Defeat a bearhug, defeat a headlock etc. Lots of TMA's offer these as static positions. Who gets someone in a bear hug, then just leaves it at that?

 

[MA-Caver]

Pinching...

My instructor was demonstrating and asked me to apply a headlock, I wasn't expecting it at all and he almost dropped me with a simple pinch on my upper thigh. The key is to get as little skin as possible.

:lol2: Yeah! I don't think there's anyone who can withstand that... likewise with a good firm grasp on the nether regions if the guy's legs are wide apart for balance.
Also with whatever hand is free I apply thumb pressure to the kidney region while grasping the near-most leg at the knee to take them off balance.

This is of course if the opponent isn't busily bashing my face in while applying the lock as non-MA-ist tend to do (come to think of it... if the opportunity were for me... I'd do the same thing... )... depends on the situation and what's going on.
Dropping to your knees and grabbing the belt, top of the pant to take them down with you helps as well. Adding more weight (centralized) is going to make that headlock more difficult to maintain.
There are lots of different ways. But I love that one by BigNick!

 

[bignick]

Okay guys this is how its done...

If they have gotten through to you and have a good choke on you, you only have about 2 minutes before you go out so it has to be done quit fast.

You were both optimisitc...a solid choke latched on...

..I'd give you 3-5 seconds....

 

[bignick]

Exactly what situation are we discussing here? There seems to be a lot mixed wires. A side headlock, front headlock, rear headlock/choke. Are we standing/sitting/sprawled, etc?

Should make the discussion a lot smoother. I'll post a bit for side head lock in a bit. Gotta finish up some stuff.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Exactly what situation are we discussing here? There seems to be a lot mixed wires. A side headlock, front headlock, rear headlock/choke. Are we standing/sitting/sprawled, etc?

Should make the discussion a lot smoother. I'll post a bit for side head lock in a bit. Gotta finish up some stuff.

I'm sorry, I should have specified in the original post: I meant side headlock.

Thanks all for the good responses.

 

[bignick]

Ok, from the top of my head for a side headlock, remember always protect your neck and try to keep good posture to prevent yourself from being taken down:

The aforementioned pinching

Reaching around to the closest hand and attacking the pressure point below the nose and philtrum.

Attacking the knee, any angle will work just fine, the knee is vulnerable in all directions, it will depend on your positioning, but don't just strike, strike and drive through to do damage.

Depending on the footwhear of the attacker and your position, attacking the instep or shin is a possiblity for distraction.

Elbowing or attacking to the ribs, or the thigh.

Attacking the radial nerve on the attackers arm.

Slipping your closest foot behind both the attackers legs, grab them around the waist and drive backwards performing a tani otoshi.

Attack the grabbing arms hand between the metacarpals.

Should be a start, there's always more, that's just what's coming to mind...

 

[rutherford]

Or go for a hip throw/takedown. The classic noogie pose doesn't seem like it'd be all that great a position to throw punches, much less knees.

Because your talking about the person applying the headlock standing facing the opposite direction as me. That's typically called a side headlock, since you and your opponent are facing the same way. And that seems to be the way the thread is going now.

BigShadow mentioned a front headlock, and in that case you'd have great position to use knees. Personally, I'd use them to slam into the person's midsection once we're falling after I drive them backwards and to the ground, still pulling up and back on their neck.

And if they keep their footing by backpeddling hard, you can expect a sudden stop and twist.

I understand that not everyone will choke from a headlock Rutherford, but would you really go for knee strikes like in a Thai Camp, or old school street fight stuff and ram him into a door, bar etc... rather than choke him from a headlock that's right there. Granted horsing around with your brother is a far cry from if some @$$ on the street gets a hold of your head, I can't imagine they would be so kind as to not try to choke me out. If some-one has me in a headlock, ( and potentialy a choke )they have access to 3 life support systems so to speak. My breathing, my blood flow to my brain and my spinal cord.

Have you worked the headlock much? If you haven't, I doubt you're gonna pull that choke as easily as you think. The headlock really isn't very good for much besides immobilization. I think most BJJ guys would transition to a stronger submission from the headlock, either taking the back or going for a sweep.

I'd much rather some guy on the street try to choke me in the headlock. In that case, he's probably seen too much pro wrestling.

 

[Bigshadow]

I'm sorry, I should have specified in the original post: I meant side headlock.

Thanks all for the good responses.

My question is... Are you concerned about hurting the person? If so, I cannot be of much use. If not, first I would take their balance and then I would destroy their structure (or shape of attack), then lock them up.

 

[Jimi]

Never said weither or not I have worked the headlock much, or if I could pull it off myself, I was simply surprised that if you had a headlock that you would do something else besides try to get under the chin and choke from there. Everyone favors what their training prefers. BTW, yes I have worked headlocks, chokes etc...before and not at a McDojo. Again I am surprised is all, some-one with a headlock and does not think a choke is the natural progression from there is just interesting to me. Don't twist my head off, or knee me or something.(I MEANT THAT AS A JOKE) Different strokes for different folks. PEACE

 

[rutherford]

And I have the opposite surprise. I'd also be surprised at finding a JKD McDojo. The D seems to be the only thing they have in common.

When I say "You" I don't mean for the discussion to get personal, and am merely meaning it as a general term for the participants in the conflict. I should hope that neither of us is planning to attack the other.

Unless you think it'd be fun.

%-}

 

[jujutsu_indonesia]

What are your recommendations for techniques to use to escape from a basic headlock? I have learned several over the course of my MA career, but all of them left a little to be desired. One would only work against a compliant partner or one smaller than yourself, one relied upon your access to vital striking points (likely, given your position, but NOT a given), and the third was untestable.What are some of your recommendations for escaping from a headlock?

Depending on your position in relation to your opponent's. In case of front guillotine headlock, I will attack the opponent's inguinal canal, using boshiken/thumb jams. This will help loosen him up for takedowns or joint locks. In case of rear headlock/sleeperhold, there is a Kata called Ketsumyaku in Gyokko-ryu that will do just fine (it's some kind of a shoulder throw). In case of side headlock, I will drive thumb jams into the bridge of opponent's nose and the back of his knee at the same time, this will bring him down.

Off couse, all those escapes only works against the clueless. Against high skilled attacker, the chances of success will be greatly reduced.

 

[Jimi]

Great response man. I love the pirate icon. I too do not mean any of this to seem personal as well. I am sure if we attacked each other, we would both be hurtn' bobcats. If I were in someones front headlock or even a rear headlock(Especialy a BJJ guy or girl) I expect a choke out attempt. A side headlock is different enough that a choke is not my first concern. Not that any other option is not valid, just soo many people today would go for it in my opinion. Headlocks suck, I have an older brother and it brings back dark, stinky memories. Headlocks & Chokes are a little different, hence the names are different. Headlocks & Chokes=get out,get out, getout! however you can. Hope you are with me Brother ( I mean that in the Kung Fu Theater way ) Hope my simpleminded opinion did not cause too much surprise. PEACE

 

[kickcatcher]

Hit whatever vital area you can...pinch nerves...do what you have to do!

Which nerves do you suggest?


In answer to the orginal question, I think that grappling training like in MMA is probably the best way to avoid and/or counter headlocks. A front headlock can be thought of as a guillotine choke - if the choke isn't on then that's just a plus. A side headlock is also reasonably common in most sport-grappling setting except Judo etc and proficiency in escaping can be got if you apply enough Alive training to the problem. Strikes etc are cool, but not the whole answer IMO.

 

[RoninPimp]

Basic BJJ covers headlock escapes very well.

 

[rutherford]

In answer to the orginal question, I think that grappling training like in MMA is probably the best way to avoid and/or counter headlocks. A front headlock can be thought of as a guillotine choke - if the choke isn't on then that's just a plus.

I made a similar comment, but I think it's time to clarify.

A guillotine choke involves wrapping the opponent's neck with both of your arms with your opponent directly in front of you. A Headlock only uses one arm and pins the opponent to your body for the other support.

This is a front headlock, both people standing:

 

[Jimi]

Excellent clarification Rutherford!