Erotoxins?

[hardheadjarhead]

It seems to be my week for coming up with silly/controversial topics. Here's yet another:

http://wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,65772,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_3


This should give some people here something to talk about. If the discussion gets too stimulating, though, we may need to make it illegal. Martialtalk itself is addictive...perhaps it should be banned.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Makalakumu]

Internet pornography is the new crack cocaine, leading to addiction, misogyny, pedophilia, boob jobs and erectile dysfunction, according to clinicians and researchers testifying before a Senate committee Thursday.

Can anyone say corellation is not always causation?

 

[michaeledward]

About this, I have two things to say!!!

1 - Thank God for Internet Porn (I know, I'm an athiest. I am speaking metaphorically.)

2 - And I thought Al Gore invented the internet.

 

[Rynocerous]

hahahahahahahahaha.....

deep breaths Ryan, deep breaths...

hahahahahahahahaha.....

Yes, thank God for Internet porn(hold on I have to close these porn pop ups)

Sorry bout that...

Cheers,

Ryan

 

[TonyM.]

Naw, Al Gore inspired "Love Story" which started the whole internet porn industry.

 

[Melissa426]

It doesn't surprise me at all that porn had addictive potential. I am sure marriages have been broken and jobs lost due to people who couldn't stop looking. About 5 years ago, there was a big scandal in my hometown involving a preacher's kid who was showing other kids at the church pornographic websites.

Two concerns I have with Internet porn:

1. Not everyone is a responsible parent. I don't think children should be allowed to visit these sites. Unfortunately, many parents have their heads in the sand or just don't care and too many kids are viewing these sites and thinking it's a real depiction of a normal adult sexual relationship.

I know a man who laughed and laughed when he caught his 17 y.o son viewing multiple web pages (his son didn't know to delete "history of pages viewed") but he about stroked out when a few years later, he found his 15 y.o. daughter doing the same.

2. As noted above, internet porn (or porn, period) generally doesn't depict real sexual relationships; it is someone's interpretation of human sexual fantasy. But just like soap operas, some people can get caught up and believe the fantasy is real or the way life should be. When you can't separate fiction from fact, there is gonna be some real hurting and distressed folk.

Peace,
Melissa

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Can anyone say corellation is not always causation?

Yeah, I have to agree with you. Internet porn may be addictive, but so's alcohol, gambling, sex itself, video games, internet message boards. The real problem's addiction in general, not just net porn.

Besides, the people arguing against pornography in hte article are using too broad a standard--because it stimulates certain sensors in the brain and becomes addictive, we should ban it. Pretty soon any erotic literature will be on the same docket. Free speech issues, anybody?

 

[hardheadjarhead]

A few things that need to be noted here.

Jeffrey Satinover was the psychiatrist and advisor to the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality who appeared before this committee. NARTH is a conservative organization claiming that they can reorient homosexuals if they honestly desire to change their sexual preferences. Here's a review of NARTH:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_nart.htm

Mary Ann Layden, of U of Penn's Sexual Trauma and Psychopathology Program, professes to treat problems related to sexual addiction, pornography addiction, cybersex addiction, prostitution, or stripping (I assume the profession). Layden seems to be against the sex industry in general, and has been active against it:

http://citypaper.net/articles/112896/article006.shtml

She, Reisman, and Santinover are described by some as neopuritans, a phrase coming into vogue to describe reactionary attitudes towards sexuality (among other topics) that include both Christians and feminists:

http://homepage.mac.com/rondavis/iblog/C791896557/E1972071439/

http://www.umich.edu/~mrev/archives/1995/12-6-95/speaker.html

In Nadine Strossen's "Defending Pornography" the author shows how fringe feminists like Catherine McKinnon and Andrea Dworkin have teamed up (unwittingly, perhaps) with conservative Christian organizations to demonize pornography. Its a fascinating book and prescient...I think the testimony above to Congress is a present day manifestation of that same prudish drive.

The battle over pornography is nothing new...but new battle lines are being drawn now that the internet has become one of the major sources of it. Making it illegal will be a major challenge.

But with of all the addictions and health issues we currently face, is this nearly as bad as these people would have us believe?

Regards,


Steve

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Sorry for posting back to back...if indeed I did.

2. As noted above, internet porn (or porn, period) generally doesn't depict real sexual relationships; it is someone's interpretation of human sexual fantasy. But just like soap operas, some people can get caught up and believe the fantasy is real or the way life should be. When you can't separate fiction from fact, there is gonna be some real hurting and distressed folk.

Pornography is a visual manifestation of a fantasy that is designed to fuel the fantasy. The stuff that sells the best is reflective of the most comon fantasies.

Adolescents don't need much help deriving a fantasy, as we all know. Without pornography they seem to do just fine in whipping up a fantasy and--shall we say--putting it to work. They, like many adults, won't hesitate to augment their imaginations with visual stimuli.

Are THESE fantasies that adults and adolescents engender by themselves any healthier or more realistic than those they see in a magazine? Probably not. They're likely very similar to what we see in magazines and on the net (which were dreamed up by once adolescent men) with the exception that the models we see may be a tad too "perfect," and represent an unrealistic ideal.

If this were to cause unrealistic expectations in adolescents (or in adults) as to what they should get from their partners, we are left wondering where they're supposed to get their realistic expectations from. Mom and Dad's "the birds and the bees" lecture? Pastor John's sermon? Sex ed class?

In truth all three perhaps...but only if we embrace a certain form of frank honesty with our children and with ourselves. Sex happens, and fantasy is a big part of it. Squelching it through abstinence doesn't seem to work well. Describing it as "evil" or prurient isn't the card either. Demonizing it gives it so much more appeal to some.

With issues such as this we get so panicky. We rush to the statehouse and appeal to our leaders to protect us and our children from (name evil here). We're fully capable of protecting ourselves if we stop running from what we fear and learn how to talk openly about it.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Melissa426]

we are left wondering where they're supposed to get their realistic expectations from. Mom and Dad's "the birds and the bees" lecture? Pastor John's sermon? Sex ed class?

In truth all three perhaps...but only if we embrace a certain form of frank honesty with our children and with ourselves.

We're fully capable of protecting ourselves if we stop running from what we fear and learn how to talk openly about it.

Regards,

Steve

I don't see anything wrong with being frank and open with your kids.
Fantasy is healthy and normal. You can go to the library and pick up almost any romance novel and get vivid and explicit descriptions of sexual encounters. Of course, you won't have the visual stimuli, but I guess that is what your imagination is for.:ultracool

My point is some people don't know or learn the difference between fantasy and reality. Some adolescents (and post-adolescents, for that matter) may not be mature enough to be able to accurately distinguish the difference.

Unrealistic beliefs and expectations about, for instance, women's sexuality, may give some men a false sense of entitlement when confronted with a woman who doesn't want to engage in sexual activity. Pornography may leave the impression that "all women really want it" and those that say "No" are just playing hard to get.

Peace,
Melissa

 

[5 hand swords]

It seems to be my week for coming up with silly/controversial topics. Here's yet another:

http://wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,65772,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_3


This should give some people here something to talk about. If the discussion gets too stimulating, though, we may need to make it illegal. Martialtalk itself is addictive...perhaps it should be banned.


Regards,


Steve

Anyone read Ringworld Series By Niven and know what a tasp or a wirehead is?
Is the human mind a easy or difficult thing to program?

 

[SenseiBear]

Yes, I read Ringworld - but I don't think tasps and wireheads were from that, I think they were from Spider Robinson's "Mindkiller", (as well as Time Pressure, and maybe a later one, but Mindkiller was excellent...)

 

[rmcrobertson]

When in doubt about these issues of sf origins---it's pretty much ALWAYS Samuel R. Delany, "Babel-17."

Or don't you guys hang out in the Discorporate Zones, trying to pick up an *** and dreaming of an end to alienated labor?

 

[hardheadjarhead]

My point is some people don't know or learn the difference between fantasy and reality. Some adolescents (and post-adolescents, for that matter) may not be mature enough to be able to accurately distinguish the difference.


Which is a point well taken...the question being how does one address that topic? Banning pornography/erotica (alluding to the novels you mentioned) because it misrepresents reality is unrealistic. Modern pop music routinely fails to do this, and it shapes the moods of youth who expect their significant others to "love them forever," and "always be true." It is sappy at best, at worst it leads youth to have overblown expectations of their relationships.

But it has a good beat, Dick...and its easy to dance to. And nobody is talking about banning it.

Unrealistic beliefs and expectations about, for instance, women's sexuality, may give some men a false sense of entitlement when confronted with a woman who doesn't want to engage in sexual activity. Pornography may leave the impression that "all women really want it" and those that say "No" are just playing hard to get.

Locker-room vulgarism does just as much to give men these false impressions, Melissa. The sense of entitlement you describe predates any explosion in pornography in our culture. Reported rapes have declined since I was a young man (and porn was far less available than today). Rapes occured far more frequently in the '60's and '70's. Was this because of the growth of the porn industry? Or could it be attributable to the large number of young and aggressive "baby-boomer" men of that era? The population has aged and rape rates have declined, yet the porn industry has exploded in the last ten years.

http://www.rainn.org/ncvs_2002.pdf

The question again is how parents combat this. Merely banning literature/pics/films of this nature won't give children the social sophistications they need to have a healthy relationship with another.

Parents need to help their children develop communications skills and the ability to empathize with whom they socialize. It'll help youngsters avoid heartbeak and teach young men to respect girls/women as they ought. On that note girls too can claim the self respect they rightfully deserve while at the same time learning how not to savage the esteem of young men.

Regards,

Steve

 

[Satt]

Anyone ever thought about making a "martial art porno???" Just curious. LOL.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Anyone ever thought about making a "martial art porno???" Just curious. LOL.

I have not seen it, but there is a small group of movies out there as "martial arts porn". I thought it was hysterically funny when I first heard of it.

I think the reality/fantasy line is an important issue - but also, the issues of how men and women (and boys and girls) are encouraged - and modeled - to shape their relationships - nonsexual at first, and then when they become "romantically entangled".

I think an addictive personality can latch on to a number of different outlets. Internet porn seems like an easy outlet - private, anonymous, and there are lots of sites.

 

[5 hand swords]

Yes, I read Ringworld - but I don't think tasps and wireheads were from that, I think they were from Spider Robinson's "Mindkiller", (as well as Time Pressure, and maybe a later one, but Mindkiller was excellent...)

wireheads go to Gill hammer - ARM storys, Tasp is ringworld series.
Spider loved it and expanded on the tech with mindkiller etc

 

[michaeledward]

Pornography is now shown to cause you to sleep in tents on the roofs of buildings....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6541008/

SALINA, Kan. - A man spent a week on the roof of one of two adult bookstores in town to protest a movement to have the stores investigated for obscenity.

Ray Morris, 38, came down from his perch on top of Behind Closed Doors on Saturday morning after staying in a tent there since the previous Saturday.

“I can’t stress enough that I am not promoting porn,” Morris said. “I’m promoting the idea of choice. Everyone has a right to choose whether they want to enter these stores.”

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I have not seen it, but there is a small group of movies out there as "martial arts porn". I thought it was hysterically funny when I first heard of it.

I think the reality/fantasy line is an important issue - but also, the issues of how men and women (and boys and girls) are encouraged - and modeled - to shape their relationships - nonsexual at first, and then when they become "romantically entangled".

I think an addictive personality can latch on to a number of different outlets. Internet porn seems like an easy outlet - private, anonymous, and there are lots of sites.

I agree...an addictive personality will gravitate to that which gives him the greatest rush or combination of rushes. And I don't doubt there are porn addicts. I question the degree of harm it causes to society overall and how, exactly, we should deal with it. "Erotoxins", which we all have to a certain level, can only do so much and last so long. We physically can generate only a set amount of these, while with narcotics the sky...and overdose...is the limit.

"Erotoxin" is an awful word. This suggests that the rush we get from making love with our soul mate is...well...toxic and bad.

I am reluctant to engage in slippery slope arguments, but those testifying before the aforementioned committee are stumping for cultural change via legal enforcement (not indicated in this article but on other sites). I'm at a loss to see where this has ever worked. Look down the slippery slope and we see future efforts to clean up magazines and other media--STUFF and FHM's models will have to be a little less alluring. Muscle Mag's girls will have to put something more than just a thong on. This isn't porn, certainly, but these girls play Hell with a young man's libido and offend a large portion of society.

I don't think we'll ski down that slippery slope because of cultural friction--most of us don't want to be that prim--but organizations like I listed will attempt to get us down that run. This will cost money, time, and be an enormous distraction from more pressing issues...like teen suicide.

Regards,


Steve

 

[Rynocerous]

Anyone ever thought about making a "martial art porno???" Just curious. LOL.

Actually It has been done... I have this "FRIEND" who watched it and told me about it. Although what he told me I found offensive and covered my ears,"LALALALALALALA, I don't watch porn, it's just wrong". I says to da guy...

Cheers,

Ryan