How much training is really needed to be an elite type of athlete for the WTF. I know what I believe so alot of people I know believe a couple of days a week is good enough. Once some of you chime in I will add my thoughts.
Elite athletes Training
- Thread starter terryl965
- Start date
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
to be elite?
24/7/365
nothing else will get you there
elites dont eat because they like food, they eat because they have to have fuel
elites dont sleep because they want to, they sleep because they HAVE to from exhaustion
24/7/365
nothing else will get you there
elites dont eat because they like food, they eat because they have to have fuel
elites dont sleep because they want to, they sleep because they HAVE to from exhaustion
OP
- Thread Starter
- #4
Master Southwick what would be the best way of breaking up the days of training, work certain parts everyday or have specific days for each part?
Well I think you must train hard and long as often as you can, and take just enough breaks as to not diminish any gains. How long or often that is varies from person to person but not by much.
Reaching your peak and maintaining your peak are two different things and each takes a different approach. Reaching your peak will take years of training. The amount of training per day during those years will also vary, as you are trying to reach a bar that is not even known. At some point you may think you have reached it only to realize that, nope I can get better. Remember the body only improves minute amounts after its initial gains, and what took a few weeks in the beginning to achieve, may now take months to increase a fraction of what you did in the beginning.
With that said once you get to what could be considered your peak, the question is how to maintain that peak. Any slacking off will only set you back and trying to get back to peak will take triple the time and effort it took to lose it.
Think of it like this; imagine you are in a tug of war with someone that is almost your equal. They can pull just as hard as you and match you pull for pull once the rope is even. The only difference is that when they have just a small amount more of the rope on their side they can only match you for 60 seconds then they slack for .10 (one tenth) second. Giving you that .10 second to gain some ground then you must pull all your might to maintain again for 60 seconds then they give you another tenth of a second, and so on until you reach even (your peak) rope again and then they pull just as hard as you do all the time again. You are now back to maintaining.
Now lets take that same rope and put most of it on the other side, the start of your training. The other side can only match your pull for 5 seconds then they slack for 5 second then match you again for 5 seconds then slack for 5 again, and they do this for sometime. But after sometime has passed they start matching your pull for 10 seconds but only slack for 4.5 seconds. Then some more time passes and the pull matching starts to increase even more, 20 seconds but the slack time decreases even more 4 seconds. What happens is your gains become harder and harder to achieve. No matter how hard you pull, you pull less and less rope until you are at a point of the first scenario, your peak, where you pull but you can only maintain.
Now how much effort is needed to maintain? Everything you have. You still need to train as if you have something to gain because if you don't then you will lose what gains you have gotten and decline to the point of the level of training you are doing.
With all that said you will take breaks as no one can pull (train) at full tilt constantly. But after each break you will need to push at maximum to get back to the same peak. This is why every athlete trains all the time no matter the sport. You do not want to go into competition not at your peak because your opponent may be at theirs and you now have a disadvantage.
So you must train just as hard as your hardest training session always to stay on top. You cannot slack much. And if you do then you need to train extra to make up that slack.
Michael Phelps said that for everyday he missed during training it took 3 days of training to make up for it.
Sorry for the long winded explanation. Saying it sounded shorter.
Reaching your peak and maintaining your peak are two different things and each takes a different approach. Reaching your peak will take years of training. The amount of training per day during those years will also vary, as you are trying to reach a bar that is not even known. At some point you may think you have reached it only to realize that, nope I can get better. Remember the body only improves minute amounts after its initial gains, and what took a few weeks in the beginning to achieve, may now take months to increase a fraction of what you did in the beginning.
With that said once you get to what could be considered your peak, the question is how to maintain that peak. Any slacking off will only set you back and trying to get back to peak will take triple the time and effort it took to lose it.
Think of it like this; imagine you are in a tug of war with someone that is almost your equal. They can pull just as hard as you and match you pull for pull once the rope is even. The only difference is that when they have just a small amount more of the rope on their side they can only match you for 60 seconds then they slack for .10 (one tenth) second. Giving you that .10 second to gain some ground then you must pull all your might to maintain again for 60 seconds then they give you another tenth of a second, and so on until you reach even (your peak) rope again and then they pull just as hard as you do all the time again. You are now back to maintaining.
Now lets take that same rope and put most of it on the other side, the start of your training. The other side can only match your pull for 5 seconds then they slack for 5 second then match you again for 5 seconds then slack for 5 again, and they do this for sometime. But after sometime has passed they start matching your pull for 10 seconds but only slack for 4.5 seconds. Then some more time passes and the pull matching starts to increase even more, 20 seconds but the slack time decreases even more 4 seconds. What happens is your gains become harder and harder to achieve. No matter how hard you pull, you pull less and less rope until you are at a point of the first scenario, your peak, where you pull but you can only maintain.
Now how much effort is needed to maintain? Everything you have. You still need to train as if you have something to gain because if you don't then you will lose what gains you have gotten and decline to the point of the level of training you are doing.
With all that said you will take breaks as no one can pull (train) at full tilt constantly. But after each break you will need to push at maximum to get back to the same peak. This is why every athlete trains all the time no matter the sport. You do not want to go into competition not at your peak because your opponent may be at theirs and you now have a disadvantage.
So you must train just as hard as your hardest training session always to stay on top. You cannot slack much. And if you do then you need to train extra to make up that slack.
Michael Phelps said that for everyday he missed during training it took 3 days of training to make up for it.
Sorry for the long winded explanation. Saying it sounded shorter.
Well close to that. You need breaks to recover. No breaks will lead to injury.
But the eating to fuel thing is so true.
You must be a student of the sport 24/7/365
At the elite level the training cycle is 1 year with high and lows based on peaking the athletes performance around competition. The amount of training is usually 6 days a week with one day rest. The key is not to over train or under train and you must constantly monitor conditioning and energy levels and mental stamina to obtain optimum results. Periods of intense trains coupled with periods of more relaxed training. The mental aspect is just as important as the physical.
At the elite level the training cycle is 1 year with high and lows based on peaking the athletes performance around competition. The amount of training is usually 6 days a week with one day rest. The key is not to over train or under train and you must constantly monitor conditioning and energy levels and mental stamina to obtain optimum results. Periods of intense trains coupled with periods of more relaxed training. The mental aspect is just as important as the physical.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #8
See I do the same everyday so I understand but so many people believe they can just start this a few weeks before a tournament and be at top level. When I tell them they have no clue I am told I am old school and the new ways are better. I say **** the new ways and get back to real hard training so you can be the best.
Hmm...are the people saying this to you at the top level? Have they won or even placed at any national or international levels? If so then it works for them. If not, then what are they talking for?
AMP-RYU
Black Belt
Well I personally train 3 hours a day 7 days a week. (Monday, Wednesday,Friday TKD, MMA Conditioning)( Tuesday,Saturday Judo) and (Thursday and Sunday Jujitsu). And if you ask me this is probably not even elite training. I have a messed up story. I recently had 4 kids come in and when I say kids I mean 20-21. They get this hip idea to sign up and be paired for a Harley Davison Amatuer MMA fight coming up in September. Well they come in and tell me they signed up for this in mid August! The funny part is they have absolutly no Martial Training at all! So they are expecting to train with us for "one" month and go "win at their first ever MMA competition! I can't wait! And if they somehow win....I will feel really accomplished! LOL
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
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Recently heard of a study about elite performers. Anyhting from musicians to athletes. They came up with a general rule of 10,000 hours of practice.
To put that in everyday terms, the average person works at a job 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year. This is 2000 hours a year, and probably less if addittional holidays are considered. At this rate it takes 5 years to hit 10,000 hours.
To put that in everyday terms, the average person works at a job 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year. This is 2000 hours a year, and probably less if addittional holidays are considered. At this rate it takes 5 years to hit 10,000 hours.
Well I personally train 3 hours a day 7 days a week. (Monday, Wednesday,Friday TKD, MMA Conditioning)( Tuesday,Saturday Judo) and (Thursday and Sunday Jujitsu). And if you ask me this is probably not even elite training. I have a messed up story. I recently had 4 kids come in and when I say kids I mean 20-21. They get this hip idea to sign up and be paired for a Harley Davison Amatuer MMA fight coming up in September. Well they come in and tell me they signed up for this in mid August! The funny part is they have absolutly no Martial Training at all! So they are expecting to train with us for "one" month and go "win at their first ever MMA competition! I can't wait! And if they somehow win....I will feel really accomplished! LOL
If you train 7 days a week you are over training...Your body needs time to rest and heal. You can't train extremely hard year around...you will never peak or peak at the wrong times...more is not always better...smart is always better...you should maintain fitness year around but intensity should be calculated...and the types of training should vary...at the highest levels this is a very difficult thing to accomplish(peaking at the right time) but it can mean who wins and who loses...it becomes even more difficult when you have several competitions in a row...
I'll say that the 10,000 hour thing is probably righ ton. However, I will also say that not all of that 10,000 is going to be physical practice. There's lots of things that go into elite level training. Back in my music school days I'd spend hours in the practice room. Sometimes I was runnign scales and technical excercises, sometimes I was practicing specific pieces (or more commonly, pieces of pieces to work outy the difficult bits). I also spent a lot of time working theory, musicianship, maybe improvising or working on group stuff. Sometimes I was jsut hinking about the music.
Same thing goes for MA training...my training (which is nowhere in the realm of elit elevel training...but is shaped in a similar way) consitis of conditioning sessions (lifting wieghts, cardio, agility/speed) technique sessions (class), sparring, forms, and thinking (self evaluation, what do I need to work on? visualizaion...what does the perfect rounhosue kick ook.feel liek? How do my current kicks fit with that? how can they get better? What are all the steps to taeguk pal jang? etc.) the proportion of each of these sessions changes over time depending on what my cuirrent training goals are.
right now, I'm condiitoning 4-5 days a week for an hour to an hour and a half a day. Spending more time on tehcnique and forms as i prepare for a 2nd dan test. As thing progress, the shift will be towards less strenght trainign and more cardio./speed training and more sparring as we progress otwards July and nationals...less SD and less general technique and more focus on specific things I need to work on to do well in competition.
I think a similar pattern holds true at the elite level....just more intense...more detail oriented. Focusing on specific parts of a kick rather tha the whole kick itself. And lots more opponent specific training. Also a greater focus on sprots psychology, nutrition and and the like than I currently have. it's basically he sanme things we're all working on but more focused.
Peace,
Erik
Same thing goes for MA training...my training (which is nowhere in the realm of elit elevel training...but is shaped in a similar way) consitis of conditioning sessions (lifting wieghts, cardio, agility/speed) technique sessions (class), sparring, forms, and thinking (self evaluation, what do I need to work on? visualizaion...what does the perfect rounhosue kick ook.feel liek? How do my current kicks fit with that? how can they get better? What are all the steps to taeguk pal jang? etc.) the proportion of each of these sessions changes over time depending on what my cuirrent training goals are.
right now, I'm condiitoning 4-5 days a week for an hour to an hour and a half a day. Spending more time on tehcnique and forms as i prepare for a 2nd dan test. As thing progress, the shift will be towards less strenght trainign and more cardio./speed training and more sparring as we progress otwards July and nationals...less SD and less general technique and more focus on specific things I need to work on to do well in competition.
I think a similar pattern holds true at the elite level....just more intense...more detail oriented. Focusing on specific parts of a kick rather tha the whole kick itself. And lots more opponent specific training. Also a greater focus on sprots psychology, nutrition and and the like than I currently have. it's basically he sanme things we're all working on but more focused.
Peace,
Erik
