Eishun Ryu 10th Degree question

[Brandon Fisher]

At least your students have some brains and you've taught them some common sense....

Yeah I guess they are pretty sharp .

 

[Drac]

Nope her parents told me if I made her take her black belt off they would not sign her up because it would be devastating to her. I told them I would not be a party to a child holding such a rank. They tried to justify it as it was a kids rank. I didn't buy so they didn't come back. Sadder yet even my students thought it was joke.

A parent actually said that to you..You are in greater control of your emotion than I am..I would have doubled over in laughter...

 

[grydth]

This relates very nicely to another thread about respect and rank. Here is a child who holds a Sandan. Does she get any respect? Probably quite a bit, but not from anyone who knows better. Further, there can be little or no respect for the material she has learned. It was just a collection of boxes to tick off to attain certificates. Brandon described her as being significantly worse than her rank suggested, so techniques were learned without understanding.

I don't want to sound like I am hounding this young lady, she, afterall, just jumped through the required hoops, as we all do. The onus for developing understanding begins with the teacher. The Self Esteem Academy of Martial Arts? Oh Yeah! And its here to stay.

It is not just the claiming of rank, usually of outrageous levels, that leaves a bad taste in the mouths of many martial artists. Situations like this must contribute to the distaste

I believe the situation could be even worse outside the dojo and on the street. We allow ourselves to believe in the fatal myth that self esteem can and should be bestowed without the actual skills, training and competence being present. This self delusion is too often exploded on the street.

 

[Sukerkin]

Quite true, Grydth.

It's also an attitude that is seeping into other areas of endeavour, education particularly. I earned my degrees in an era when you had to work to get them and actually had to 'know stuff' in order to progress. Now it seems students get their degrees just for turning up - it's no wonder they have such a tough time when they get jobs (as do we when we have to teach them what they should've learned already).

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I believe the situation could be even worse outside the dojo and on the street. We allow ourselves to believe in the fatal myth that self esteem can and should be bestowed without the actual skills, training and competence being present. This self delusion is too often exploded on the street.

Great post but unfortuantely I have to spread that reputation around.

I believe whole heartedly that the person in question from the origional poster is definately not ranked as a 10th dan at 18 years of age by any Japanese or Okinawan Ryu. It is simply: unbelievable!

 

[Mr. E]

His story is that his dad was stationed in Thailand, where he apparently did nothing but study Eishun Ryu 8 hours a day, every day, for a couple of years. At the time, my sister still liked the guy, so I didn't really question it. But it always seemed kind of fishy to me. Don't get me wrong, he has great martial art skills, and I don't doubt that he spent a lot of time training, but a 10th degree in a couple of years?

If you doubt at all the comments made by many people here, ask your friend if he would put you in contact with his teacher to confirm what he says.

If he gives you any excuse to avoid that, then you know he is lying.

Anyone who has been lied to by a fraud is quick to back up what they say by pointing questioners in the direction of their teacher- who turns out to be the fraud. Those that are unwilling to give their teacher's name or contact information are the ones trying to hide something.

And the reason for that is that they are lying!

Can I make myself more clear?

 

[Tez3]

I believe the situation could be even worse outside the dojo and on the street. We allow ourselves to believe in the fatal myth that self esteem can and should be bestowed without the actual skills, training and competence being present. This self delusion is too often exploded on the street.

This is so true. We have school sports days now where there are no winners or losers so that everyone feels a winner, and we are supposed to be so careful we don't damage our children by actually preparing them for real life! I praise the children I teach for the actual achievemnts they do, I say well done for trying or well done on a big effort, I can't say wow that was a brilliant front kick when it wasn't. That's cheating them. I want them striving for the results but confident in their abilities to try, happy that they are doing the best they can and knowing that in the end they will grade well and have a huge sense of achievement when they put that new belt on. I think, I hope this carries over to life outside the dojo.

 

[MarkBarlow]

I was at a party a few years ago and a woman came up and asked if it was true that I taught martial arts. After admitting that I did she told me that she'd have to introduce me to her son as he was a black belt and we've have a lot to talk about. This woman looked about my own age (early 40s back then) so I asked her how old her son was. He was 12 or 13 and already a 3rd or 4th degree black belt. In her mind, paying somebody to babysit her kid and fork over money for promotions every few weeks meant that his experience was comparable to my 20 something years of training and experience. After making polite chat for a few more minutes, I slipped away and successfully avoided her the rest of the evening. For all I know, she's still trying to arrange a play date for me and Junior.

 

[Grenadier]

I've never heard of Eishun Ryu. The closest that my searches can find, is either Enshin Ryu, or Eishin Ryu.

If I were a betting man, I would wager my finest exotic hardwood weapons (and they're very nice ones at that, being made of purpleheart, ipe, Brazilian cherry, or Brazilian rosewood) that Ninomiya Shihan (the founder of Enshin Ryu) would probably get a chuckle out of this guy's claims, assuming he meant Enshin, and not Eishun.

If some 18 year old kid can defeat the best of the Enshin Ryu seniors (and they hit VERY hard), then we have quite the prodigy here!

If he meant Eishin instead of Eishun, then that refers to an Iaido system. Wow... If he's a 10th dan in this system, then we have the next coming of Musashi!

In the end, all that this so-called judan is doing, is nothing more than puffing smoke.

 

[Lynne]

I was at a party a few years ago and a woman came up and asked if it was true that I taught martial arts. After admitting that I did she told me that she'd have to introduce me to her son as he was a black belt and we've have a lot to talk about. This woman looked about my own age (early 40s back then) so I asked her how old her son was. He was 12 or 13 and already a 3rd or 4th degree black belt. In her mind, paying somebody to babysit her kid and fork over money for promotions every few weeks meant that his experience was comparable to my 20 something years of training and experience. After making polite chat for a few more minutes, I slipped away and successfully avoided her the rest of the evening. For all I know, she's still trying to arrange a play date for me and Junior.

So much for Cho Dan being "just the beginning," huh?

The woman must have come across as a little arrogant to you? Perhaps she thought junior could show you a few things

 

[Lynne]

If you doubt at all the comments made by many people here, ask your friend if he would put you in contact with his teacher to confirm what he says.

If he gives you any excuse to avoid that, then you know he is lying.

Anyone who has been lied to by a fraud is quick to back up what they say by pointing questioners in the direction of their teacher- who turns out to be the fraud. Those that are unwilling to give their teacher's name or contact information are the ones trying to hide something.

And the reason for that is that they are lying!

Can I make myself more clear?

I like your reasoning. This is one way to make a liar recind his/her bogus stories.

Can I have a jellybaby now?

 

[jks9199]

If you doubt at all the comments made by many people here, ask your friend if he would put you in contact with his teacher to confirm what he says.

If he gives you any excuse to avoid that, then you know he is lying.

Anyone who has been lied to by a fraud is quick to back up what they say by pointing questioners in the direction of their teacher- who turns out to be the fraud. Those that are unwilling to give their teacher's name or contact information are the ones trying to hide something.

And the reason for that is that they are lying!

Can I make myself more clear?

I can tell you what his answer will be...

"He's in Thailand; you can't call him 'cause he doesn't have a phone and you can't mail anything to him because he only gets mail every third Tuesday, if he's lucky, and he never opens anything that he doesn't know who sent it to him..."

 

[Flying Crane]

If I were a betting man, I would wager my finest exotic hardwood weapons (and they're very nice ones at that, being made of purpleheart, ipe, Brazilian cherry, or Brazilian rosewood)

BRAGGART!

 

[thardey]

I believe that this is the style he was referring to. Wikipedia calls it Isshin-ryu.

I think what happened is similar to Brandon Fisher's story. His mom is in the habit of protecting him, and covering for him (meaning he's never had to grow up, even though he's almost 30 now.) There were some things you could tell he was hiding something, but this wasn't really one of them.

Also, he didn't tell most people he even had a Black belt, he didn't want them to know, but preferred to slide "under the radar" (like most of us here). He only told me about the 10th degree after he found out I had spent some time in karate. So it's not like he was going around broadcasting it for attention. Besides, he knew that most people wouldn't believe him.

But, with the attitude of his parents, especially his mom, I could see them encouraging him to be a part of a school for "army brats" (no offense to army families in general, but this guy would have been a spoiled brat.) Where if you keep giving them money, they'll sell the American's whatever they want. Also, he's not the type to be honest with himself about his rank, but would believe what the instructor had told him: that rank was about how many hours you had practiced, not overall time or maturity.

(He was told that two years worth of practicing 8 hours equaled the time spent for a lifetime of practice for most average people practicing 2 or 3 hours a week.)

He mentioned once that it was a school for the American army base kids exclusively. That also made me wonder. He told me the name of his instructor once, but I didn't remember it. I don't doubt that if I had asked, he would have proudly produced a certificate and the school's name. (But then again, he might have easily said that it was buried in some box somewhere, but then most of his life was in a box at the time.)

I got suspicious about the school when I hear that they only taught Americans, and that he got his 10th in Thailand, while it appears the stylel was Okinawan.

But then again, he was a very gifted liar.

I didn't press it, partly because I didn't want to cause trouble with my sister, and partly because he was a talented fighter, and I milked a few moves and joint locks from him. Kind of that "oh, you're so cool! Teach me something from your many hours of study." (Also, I learned a few of his strategies and tricks, so that if something ever did happen over my sister, I would have an idea of what to expect from him.)