Educaid vs Public Education

[still learning]

Hello, There are two girls in our kempo class who were home school. They were on a computor home school program till eight grade.

Than they attended High school, and found it behind what they knew. This is one of those case's where studing at home was better than the education programs offer by the State of Hawaii,schools They are very self-discipline and "A" students in 10th and 11 grade today.

For some kids this is answer...for others...ARMY? or MacDonalds?

Private schools are usually better and smaller classes and they learn alot more plus better prepare for College.

We only have one chance to give our children the best education we can find. Once grown....stay stupid unless they go back? .....Aloha

 

[Kacey]

Hello, There are two girls in our kempo class who were home school. They were on a computor home school program till eight grade.

Than they attended High school, and found it behind what they knew. This is one of those case's where studing at home was better than the education programs offer by the State of Hawaii,schools They are very self-discipline and "A" students in 10th and 11 grade today.

For some people homeschool works; for many, it doesn't, such as for students whose parents are themselves not well educated, for students with disabilities of all types, for students whose parent(s) work, for students who want to learn something their parents can't teach (anything from a foreign language to physics to a musical instrument, etc.), for students who want to participate in an activity that requires more than a few students (team sports, band/orchestra, debate, art, choir, shop, etc.), and so on.

For some kids this is answer...for others...ARMY? or MacDonalds?

Private schools are often better - but it's not just the smaller class sizes. By their very nature, private and parochial schools (which generally have larger class sizes, fewer resources, and teachers who are paid less than public school teachers) have a preselected sample of students: students whose parents cared enough about education to send them to a private or parochial school. In addition, private and parochial schools can select their students, through entrance exams, by refusing to allow students with behavior problems to attend, by refusing to take students with disabilities or by not providing those students the services they need to be successful - all things that public schools have no options about. Public schools take everyone - regardless of race, religion, socioeconomic status, disability, language spoken in the home, citizenship or the lack thereof, with or without a home address, behavior (yes, a very few students are expelled - but very few, and it's not permanent in many places), and so on.

Private schools are usually better and smaller classes and they learn alot more plus better prepare for College.

Not every student is suited to college - certainly, all students deserve to be taught the reading, writing, math, and thinking skills that will allow them to learn anything they need, or want, to know throughout their lives - but college is not an appropriate destination for all students, and we do a disservice to students who are not college-bound by insisting that they take college-prep classes to graduate high school. Vocational education, sadly, is becoming less common as the push for higher educational standards is forced on all students, appropriate or not; this push is one of the reasons why the dropout rate continues to rise. For a significant block of students, vocational education is the ideal: for technology-related jobs, for the service industry (electricians, plumbers, hair dressers, child-care workers, hotel and restaurant staff, medical assistants, etc.), for skilled white-collar jobs (transcriptionists of all varieties, clerks, etc.), for skilled manual labor (construction workers, carpenters, draftsmen, etc.), and so on. We owe an appropriate education to non-college bound students as well as college-bound; instead, in the societal focus on the college-bound, those who are not are increasingly driven into dropping out instead of getting the job training once available in the schools.

We only have one chance to give our children the best education we can find. Once grown....stay stupid unless they go back? .....Aloha

I disagree. I know too many people who are simply not suited to formal education for one reason or another - too many successful people. In addition, uneducated and stupid are not the same thing.

 

[Kane]

So what do you all think of the Educaid idea discussed earlier? Do you think it can solve many problems? Privatizing the schools can work with Educaid. Educaid will provide resources for all those who cannot afford school, similar to Medicaid. In this way everyone goes to school without the government taking over the schools. Look at earlier posts for more detail. What do you think?

 

[Rich Parsons]

Now I have to take umbrage at that statement cause though this may not be true of your typical cashiers, I can't do simple mathematics half the time anymore. I have spent so much time doing higher level math, that if the problem doesn't involve differential equations and letters I have a brain fart and forget how to add and subtract.

I will say that education in this country is severely lacking. I went to a good private catholic High school and I still found myself unprepared in some areas once I got to college.
I think the two significant ways it can be improved is to make classes smaller to get more indiviualized attention and for teachers to start thinking outside the box. They need to do more than just lecture and give out worksheets. I was a student that didn't do well in settings like that, so like for math my parents would help me learn by asking me addition and subtraction in french. I thought it was a game and didn't know I was learning too. I was just talking to a guy whose son is in kindergarten and was learning numbers and critical thinking doing really simple Sudoku puzzles. Unfortunetally those teachers are the exception not the norm.

Ping898,

My point was that, if the original poster was allowed to make his pet peeve rules, then why could I not? The Sarcasm Smile still has not been invented yet.

 

[Ping898]

Ping898,

My point was that, if the original poster was allowed to make his pet peeve rules, then why could I not? The Sarcasm Smile still has not been invented yet.

Sorry Rich ...I missed the sublty of that because I have heard that arguement used in seriousness many times . I take my feelings of umbrage back, those still can't do basic math to save my life...my family laughs at me about it....

 

[Rich Parsons]

Sorry Rich ...I missed the sublty of that because I have heard that arguement used in seriousness many times . I take my feelings of umbrage back, those still can't do basic math to save my life...my family laughs at me about it....

Ping,

I can look at a diagram and say that is about 10 degrees. When they checked it was 9.8 degrees tilt. I can do quick interpolations, and also wierd math in my head, yet I almost always made or make my mistakes with a +/- sign.

So I understand your point, it that there will always be exceptions, and yet we have to try. To make arbitrary rules, such as mentioned in the first post have no merit. Also the comments about Federal Monies and schoolinng being the largest issue. If I am wrong, then someone please educate me on this. Yet, in my state and those I know of, which is not all 50, Taxes from schools come from property taxes, special milliages, and also the State.

Keep your feelings out there, for they were expressed and people should here the point of view. :asian:

 

[Kane]

Does anyone want to comment on the Educaid solution I am advocating? And now that we are on the subject, anyone want to explain why we need universal health care when we already have medicaid?

Thanks!:asian:

 

[michaeledward]

Does anyone want to comment on the Educaid solution I am advocating?

I have.

And now that we are on the subject, anyone want to explain why we need universal health care when we already have medicaid?

The forty-seven million Americans with no health insurance.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Does anyone want to comment on the Educaid solution I am advocating? And now that we are on the subject, anyone want to explain why we need universal health care when we already have medicaid?

Thanks!:asian:

I have and asked some questions.

Does anyone wish to enlighten me on those? It does nto have to be you. It can be anyone for I am open minded enough to try to listen and learn something new.

 

[Shirt Ripper]

The burden of responsibility is upon the parents of the children.

...this message was "too short" with just the quote...lame..

 

[Kane]

I have.



The forty-seven million Americans with no health insurance.

Yea, but I clarified what seemed philosophically wrong about Educaid. What is specially right or wrong about Educaid?

Yes, 47 million Americans don't have health insurance. Why is that? If they cannot afford private health insurance why don't they go on Medicaid? It seems like it is the person's fault if they cannot get health insurance.

 

[Kane]

I have and asked some questions.

Does anyone wish to enlighten me on those? It does nto have to be you. It can be anyone for I am open minded enough to try to listen and learn something new.

I thought I addressed it earlier but I'll answer anyways.

1) The Federal Government should not be involved in our local school education system.

Why? The schools will still be semi-privatized; the federal government will work with state governments only to help those who cannot afford education. So I don't see any problems.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I thought I addressed it earlier but I'll answer anyways.



Why? The schools will still be semi-privatized; the federal government will work with state governments only to help those who cannot afford education. So I don't see any problems.

Every kid only has to go to school today.

So how does the Federal stepping which is not involved now, going to make it better?

 

[Kane]

Every kid only has to go to school today.

So how does the Federal stepping which is not involved now, going to make it better?

Well the whole idea isn't based on the federal government. If we want to just keep it within state governments I don't see the problem with that.

What I am advocating is semi-privatization of the schools while having a government help those who cannot afford school (whether to create special schools or to just provide tuition for private schools). If it is state-funded that is okay too.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Well the whole idea isn't based on the federal government. If we want to just keep it within state governments I don't see the problem with that.

What I am advocating is semi-privatization of the schools while having a government help those who cannot afford school (whether to create special schools or to just provide tuition for private schools). If it is state-funded that is okay too.

Kane,

If you want to present that idea than do so.

Do not mix in the Federal Taxes with the discussion which is what got me all confused and asking WTF are you talking about.

On the state level, you still can go private, you pay for it. Great Capatalism at its' best.

Explain to me how your system will stand up to an ACLU attack of discrimination against the poor inner cites?

No disrespect meant, just trying to understand.

 

[Kane]

Kane,

If you want to present that idea than do so.

Do not mix in the Federal Taxes with the discussion which is what got me all confused and asking WTF are you talking about.

On the state level, you still can go private, you pay for it. Great Capatalism at its' best.

Explain to me how your system will stand up to an ACLU attack of discrimination against the poor inner cites?

No disrespect meant, just trying to understand.

Well the ACLU isn't government is it ?

I'm not sure how this can necessarily be considered discrimination. The system I am advocating is similar to Medicaid. Most people can afford private school without the huge public school tax. For those who cannot afford it still, they can receive assistance from the government similar to how Medicaid does with on health insurance issues.

 

[michaeledward]

I'm not sure how this can necessarily be considered discrimination. The system I am advocating is similar to Medicaid. Most people can afford private school without the huge public school tax. For those who cannot afford it still, they can receive assistance from the government similar to how Medicaid does with on health insurance issues.

So let me understand.

Kane, you are proposing:

closing all of the public schools across the country.
eliminating all state property taxes raised to finance those schools.
opening hundreds of thousands of private schools.
having private citizens, who can afford it pay for private schooling.
having the federal government create a bureaucracy to pay for those who

a) wish to attend a private school
b) don't have the funds to attend.
​

I suggest you begin to put paper to pencil, to find your own answers. Some questions for you to ponder.

How many children currently attend primary and secondary education your town?
How much money does it take to run the school system in your town?
Using only those families that have children attending school, divide the cost of running the school by the number of students.

Armed with this data, do you still believe your premise that "most people can afford private school".

Public Education works in this country because the entire society participates. Local towns levee property taxes on all citizens to pay for schooling. Once the children are educated, they provide benefits to the community that justify distributing the costs across a broad base.

I have spent entirely too much energy on this thread.

 

[Kane]

So let me understand.

Kane, you are proposing:

closing all of the public schools across the country.
eliminating all state property taxes raised to finance those schools.
opening hundreds of thousands of private schools.
having private citizens, who can afford it pay for private schooling.
having the federal government create a bureaucracy to pay for those who

a) wish to attend a private school
b) don't have the funds to attend.
​

I suggest you begin to put paper to pencil, to find your own answers. Some questions for you to ponder.

How many children currently attend primary and secondary education your town?
How much money does it take to run the school system in your town?
Using only those families that have children attending school, divide the cost of running the school by the number of students.

Armed with this data, do you still believe your premise that "most people can afford private school".

Public Education works in this country because the entire society participates. Local towns levee property taxes on all citizens to pay for schooling. Once the children are educated, they provide benefits to the community that justify distributing the costs across a broad base.

I have spent entirely too much energy on this thread.

Well we don't have to "close" all public schools only turn them into private schools.

I'll have to do some research into the data in my town. You have to remember though that a lot of our tax money goes to public education. I know some middle class families that pay up to $12,000 (compared to perhaps a 900$ school salary).

What % do you think wouldn't be able to afford private school?

Also you haven't answered my question on how Medicaid cannot work to solve the problems of universal health care. A lot of people are uninsured but many of these people haven't bothered to get health care. If they cannot afford it then Medicare should help quite a bit depending on the state.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Well the ACLU isn't government is it ?

I'm not sure how this can necessarily be considered discrimination. The system I am advocating is similar to Medicaid. Most people can afford private school without the huge public school tax. For those who cannot afford it still, they can receive assistance from the government similar to how Medicaid does with on health insurance issues.

I am confused.

I pay about $2400 in taxes a year.

I know I cannot touch a Private school anywhere near me for less than $5,000 a year, and that is the cheap ones.

You see a lot of the money comes from Commercial Taxes of property.

Are you going to discriminate against those who own small businesses to continue to pay taxes while the home owners do not?

Is that not a form of unfair taxation?

 

[Carol]

I don't support the school voucher system (or equivalent), for a variety of reasons that I have seen through my sister and her husband making the decision as to how to educate their children. My niece and nephew were home-schooled through 8th grade, and now attend a public high school.

The way I've heard the idea described is essentially...once everyone has vouchers, then everyone will be able to attend private schools. I can't see how this will happen.

Private schools are typically in demand. Students are often wait-listed. There are not enough slots as it is for students that want to attend private school.

With all respect to Kane, building/privatizing more schools is not necessarily the answer. A significant portion of a school's reputation is tied to how long a school has been in existence. Building more buildings would still create a big gap between the venerable time-tested schools and the schools still being beta-tested. Vouchers will simply inflate the tuition rates by driving up demand, but will do very little to bring an "old school" education to an average child from an average family.

Private schools, and their students, rely heavily on public schools. Private schools depend on the local public schools to provide tuturing sessions, activities, sports, special-interest classes, even school busing services (esp. for parochial schools).

Private schools generally do not have the resources to deal with differently-abled students. Students with learning disorders, emotional problems, developmental difficulties, handicaps...all have the right to an education. A former colleage of mine has a son that has faced a few challenges. Recently, they told me they were moving. I asked where to, they said they were staying in the same city, just moving to a different house. The city they live in...is not city that I would live in, frankly speaking...and probably not their first choice, either. But, the school system is the 2nd largest in the state, and actually has a learning program that is suited to their son's problems.

Many private schools, and some charter schools, interview the parents of children that seek to attend the school. They ask the parents to make their own commitments for helping their children with their homework, participating in school activities, etc. This is all factored in to the application process.

If someone were to start a MA school, could make everyone "apply" for the school, and had a goal of making the best martial artists possible over the course of (say) 4 years...the students picked would likely be the students showing the most potential and having the most tools for success.

Compare this with someone starting an MA school that agrees to train everyone that shows up. They commit to making the students the best martial artists they can, but they have no control over who comes in the door. Some are brilliant. Others lazy. Some are handicapped. Others don't speak English as a first language, but are trying really hard to understand what the instructor says. Some are good. Some are average. Others are well below average.

Private schools have the luxury of being able to pick and choose their students. Public schools do not.