Economic Stimulus Package explained

[Twin Fist]

Caver,
With the Dems self destructing, and with Hillary trying to get the Florida and Michigan votes that were not supposed to count, I would say McCain has a better than average chance.

 

[FearlessFreep]

except I dont know that it is really stupid.

giving people more money to spend DOES stimulate the economy.

It is...

First off, if the government has the money to throw around, that means that the government is collecting more money than it needs, which a fiscal conservative should be against on principle. Secondly it means that the government is using tax policy not to fund the governments needs but as a means of socio-economic manipulation (coersion), which any fiscal conservative should find appalling.

However I highly doubt that the government just happens to have an extra few billion dollars it can hand out in this manner, meaning that the government is again borrowing to... well basically ot pay off our own borrowing.

Or rather, the economy is in the state it is in because of several wider-ranging and horrendously expensive results of previous policies, and the money being given out doesn't come near to addressing the real issues

 

[FearlessFreep]

Caver,
With the Dems self destructing, and with Hillary trying to get the Florida and Michigan votes that were not supposed to count, I would say McCain has a better than average chance.

It all reminds me of a baseball game with bad pitching and and defense on from both teams. Both sides are trying to give the game away but the other side doesn't really seem to want to win.

 

[MA-Caver]

It all reminds me of a baseball game with bad pitching and and defense on from both teams. Both sides are trying to give the game away but the other side doesn't really seem to want to win.

All the more reason to have a lot more parties than just the woefully few that we have.

 

[mrhnau]

All the more reason to have a lot more parties than just the woefully few that we have.

I must agree. However, we have SO FREAKIN MANY! Green, Socialist, Communist, Libertarian, Independent, whichever flavor you want. However, they all remain such small minorities! The options are there, but so few seems viable on a national scale. What do you think it would take to bring a party of out anonymity? I've heard some rumors that this election cycle might create a new "power party", especially if the Democrats don't win..

 

[Empty Hands]

The options are there, but so few seems viable on a national scale. What do you think it would take to bring a party of out anonymity?

The structure of our government, with first-past-the-post voting and a congress rather than a parliament, is a strong shaping force towards a one or two party system. We have always had two main parties, although not always the same two main parties (see many Whigs these days?).

What promotes the rise and prominence of smaller parties and a multi-party system is proportional voting and a parliament. However, these systems also have their drawbacks - look at the outsized influence of small extremist religious parties in Israel due to the structure of their government and the need to form governing coalitions.

 

[Kacey]

except I dont know that it is really stupid.

giving people more money to spend DOES stimulate the economy.

Only if they spend it... mine went into my savings account, as did most of my friends; those who didn't save it, used it for debt reduction or purchases of needed (rather than desired) items that had been put off, like car or home repairs - I know no one who actually spent it for anything that would "stimulate" the economy in the manner desired.

 

[Twin Fist]

even in your saving account, it stimulates the economy. More money in the bank, the bank lends more money to small business, that creates more jobs.

they give out more mortgage loans, that provides jobs

all those jobs? those people get paid and they spend money on goods and services as well

it ALL stimulates the economy on some level

 

[MA-Caver]

I must agree. However, we have SO FREAKIN MANY! Green, Socialist, Communist, Libertarian, Independent, whichever flavor you want. However, they all remain such small minorities! The options are there, but so few seems viable on a national scale. What do you think it would take to bring a party of out anonymity? I've heard some rumors that this election cycle might create a new "power party", especially if the Democrats don't win..

How about everyone donating their eco-stimulus check to the OTHER parties... :lol:
That's basically what has kept the smaller parties below the radar for years. Dems and Repubs have had Big Businesses back them (c'mon, we know it's true) for so long that they've got the money (or can get it) to run their multi-million-dollar campaigns and the other parties... well... how much National TV time can you get for less than a million now-a-days, even if it's a 30 second poltical ad, you still gotta pay for each time it's shown and pay optimal pricing for the best times for when the ad will reach the most amount of viewers/voters.

 

[Makalakumu]

even in your saving account, it stimulates the economy. More money in the bank, the bank lends more money to small business, that creates more jobs.

they give out more mortgage loans, that provides jobs

all those jobs? those people get paid and they spend money on goods and services as well

it ALL stimulates the economy on some level

Actually, it all wrecks the economy on all levels because it destroys the value of the dollar.

To put it simply, if you make a deposit in the bank, the bank can CREATE ten times that amount of money by legal fiat. See fractional reserve banking.

This money, loaned out at interest, can be deposited at another bank and then lent out again at a - 9/1 ratio, where 90% of any loan deposit can be created by legal fiat into new money.

The bottom line is that the value of the dollar is eroded in a debt glut and soon the price of many goods REQUIRE you to go into debt in order to purchase.

This all is the result of the rapidly expanding amount of fiat currency.

Who could have ever thought of such a stupid system?

Well, maybe its not so stupid if you are a banker...

 

[FearlessFreep]

Well, maybe its not so stupid if you are a banker...

Ya know... it used to be that professionals and experts were as such so they could help those who were not. I'm a professional at A, you're a professional at B. So when you need A, you hire me and a do what you can't. And then when I need B, I pay you to handle it for me.

Now it just seems that being a professional or expert just means that you can use your skill to take advantage of those who are not... because now they don't know enough to protect themselves from you

 

[Makalakumu]

Ya know... it used to be that professionals and experts were as such so they could help those who were not. I'm a professional at A, you're a professional at B. So when you need A, you hire me and a do what you can't. And then when I need B, I pay you to handle it for me.

Now it just seems that being a professional or expert just means that you can use your skill to take advantage of those who are not... because now they don't know enough to protect themselves from you

The "professional" class is not a meritocracy. Anyone can teach themselves if they read the right books. In fact, if you bother to take a look at where our system of precious peices of paper (degrees) come from, it originates in Prussia.

There schooling was split into three levels.

1. Akedemianschule - 1-5% of people.
2. Realschule - 5-10% of people.
3. Volkschule - Upwards of 90% of people.

The upper are the bosses. The middle are the peons. The rest are the flotsem who do everyone elses bidding.

Is it no wonder that John Dewey, pedegogue extroidenaire, said, "it is criminal to teach the lower classes to read to much, it makes them to difficult to manage."

So now, you tell me that because I don't have the proper "qualifications" my opinion isn't worth much. I guess the managed society that the Elite cooked up and forced on everybody through public schools did its job. We are at the point where the government is preparing a high stakes "social studies" test for us (I dare not call it history because that is far from its actual purpose. Social indoctrination, according to Thorndike, Dewey and Ingliss was always its purpose).

Rather then repeating back to me the parroted lines you were forced to memorize "unofficially" in school, regarding people's opinions, perhaps check out some of these claims and see what you can come up with. In order to be helpful, I'll give you a couple of key words...

1. Prussian schooling.
2. Jekel Island.
3. Fiat currency.
4. Fractional reserve.
5. Underground history of american education.

Don't be fooled by the ribbons. Watch how the people run.

 

[Tez3]

I got an email from an American bank saying I was due a tax rebate........ all I had to do was verify my bank details!
It did look very realistic I must admit only I don't even get tax rebates from my government so can't imagine getting one off some elses!

 

[FearlessFreep]

...

Rather then repeating back to me the parroted lines you were forced to memorize "unofficially" in school, regarding people's opinions, perhaps check out some of these claims and see what you can come up with. In order to be helpful, I'll give you a couple of key words...
...

John, I hope you didn't take my post as aimed at you. The "you" in my post wasn't an accusation of you yourself in regards to being a professional (teacher) but at experts if fields you use there expertise in said field to take advantage of those who need services in those field but don't have expertise. I hope your use of "you" was in a similar vein and not aimed at me personally.

One of the reasons we home-school are children is to attempt to address some of the issues you raise... about the goal of 'education' seeming more focused on training an obedient consumer/worker class than actually opening peoples minds through learning

 

[Makalakumu]

John, I hope you didn't take my post as aimed at you. The "you" in my post wasn't an accusation of you yourself in regards to being a professional (teacher) but at experts if fields you use there expertise in said field to take advantage of those who need services in those field but don't have expertise. I hope your use of "you" was in a similar vein and not aimed at me personally.

One of the reasons we home-school are children is to attempt to address some of the issues you raise... about the goal of 'education' seeming more focused on training an obedient consumer/worker class than actually opening peoples minds through learning

My use of "you" was general, but, as many may have noticed, my late night posting behavior can get too vituperative for my own good. Jay, you don't deserve my angst. I'm just tired of people being managed like sheep unbeknownst to them and I don't think I can be part of it (as a teacher) anymore.

So, guess who really deserves my angst?

Me.

If it means anything, I'm very proud of the fact that you and others recognize what is going on and are taking responsibility for this information. Kudos for homeschooling your six children. I'm probably going to do the same thing with my two. Either that or Waldorf.

Regarding your original point, I see what you are saying now. People with information taking advantage of people without that information. I see and I agree.