granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
No, Love, he received tons of support to attack the US arch enemy Iran. So, like fighting the mountain men in Afghanistan, it's a problem we made ourselves.
Don't go, Don't kill - The hypocrisy of repealing Don't Ask Don't Tell
- Thread starter Makalakumu
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No, Love, he received tons of support to attack the US arch enemy Iran. So, like fighting the mountain men in Afghanistan, it's a problem we made ourselves.
I am not sure why people think it is so easy to fight against the bad guys in the world. Stalin murdered 25-30 million people, and we used him against the socialists in Germany. We helped the socialist in China, Mao, who went on to kill 70 million people. You don't always get to choose the best people to help you deal with bad people. I'll ask you Granfire, would you have used stalin as an ally against the Nazis, knowing how many people he murdered?
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
Interesting question. I have heard Churchill being quotes as to having had the sentiment that 'they slaughtered the wrong pig' as in dismanteling Germany instead of keeping them under arms and making for Stalin.
Not commenting on the support for Mao - I doubt it, the West (as in Nato, US, etc) has a sad track record in backing the wrong horse, for all the wrong reasons.
As to the assessment that the Iraquy people have options now they didn't have before, I reserve judgment: There were women working outside the house under the regime, leading normal, western style lives while now they are under thread of being kidnapped or killed, forced to adhere to more conservative values.
Not to mention that Hussein provided stability to the area. Removing him from power left a big power vacuum happily filled by ever tom dick and harry, not to mention opening the borders to the real terrorists who previously had no room to thrive there.
Like pulling the key stone out of an arch...
Ann Coulter's opinion on Don't ask Don't tell:http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/article.cgi?article=400
"Even more absurdly, the Pentagon polled all military "personnel" -- and their spouses! Only a small portion of what is known as "the military" actually does the fighting. The rest is a vast bureaucracy along the lines of the DMV."
"Even more absurdly, the Pentagon polled all military "personnel" -- and their spouses! Only a small portion of what is known as "the military" actually does the fighting. The rest is a vast bureaucracy along the lines of the DMV."
In the same article Ms. Coulter says, "Most people have no clue what military life is like..." as if she is an authority on what military life is like and that is a prerequisite to having a say in military matters. Then I looked up her biography to find when she served.
Archangel M
Senior Master
She's right. Most people don't know what being a brain surgeon is like.
Do I have to be a brain surgeon to say so??
Are you speaking as an authority on brain surgery and what the policies and procedures brain surgeons should follow?
And as soon as the occupation is over, Iraq will descend into a bloody civil war that may likely engulf the entire region.
Big Don
Sr. Grandmaster
We have 53 THOUSAND troops in Germany, and 47 THOUSAND in Japan, are they occupied countries? What defines an occupation?
Well, funnily enough both Germany and Japan were defeated by the Allies and were subsequently occupied by them. We are moving out troops out of Germany now, they should all be gone in the next five years or so, I believe the French are too.
Occupation is defined by a foreign military power controlling a country gainst the will of the people.
Germany had a history of democracy prior to WWII. Japan is a highly homogenous country. It is easy to install a new form of govenment. Altough it can be succesfully argued that because the same party has been ruling pretty much since the war, Japan is not truly a democracy.
If the USA troops leave Iraq, the different factions and tribes will tear each other apart as the only thing that held that country togheter was the dictatorship of Saddam.
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
53k troops still in germany....
it's a fraction of what it was 20 years ago.
While it has been a friendly force, there have also been a few tough spots in the relationship;
Like having strategic nuclear weapons on your soil with no control over it....
On a basic, human level it was not all bad. I wonder if the Russian troops had a similar impact on their occupied allies...but probably not....
The Iraqis weren't the ones coming over and killing people. The Iraqis invaded Kuwait which no one actually cared about, what caused concern was the oil might dry up so a war was launched against the Iraqis. Kuwait was 'freed' at least from Iraqi ocupation, it remains one of the least 'free' and undemocratic countries in the world. George Bush jnr decided to do what his dad didn't, that is get rid of Saddam. For many reasons none of which included democracy for the Iraqis a second war was declared on Iraq.
It sounds good 'oh we are fighting for the safety of the world and for democracy in Iraq' but it's a load of waffle designed to justify an unjustifiable war.
Good thing we did something about it then. If we made the mess, IMO we were responsible for cleaning it up.
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
lol, cleaning it up?!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lfao:
I do believe the phrase that applies here is: If you find yourself at the bottom of a hole, stop digging.
The original point, that - as usual - is not heard is that the West has a bad track record in supporting the wrong people for short term gain and end up getting bit in the butt by it.
