Does your school do what Bruce Lee did?

The Kai said:
Don't worship him, nor for that matter particularly admire him.
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No, I don't, nor will I. I need not do anything more than respect his philosophical position, and embrace his conceptual way. I have chosen to go the way of the intercepting fist, and am quite able to do so without deifying any human. Furthermore, I am grateful for his writings. It is the only way for me to know and understand the essence of his position directly, as I am too young to have ever had the opportunity to train with him. Perhaps you or Michigan TKD would be interested in directing me to some of your writings, so as to provide me with a broader frame of reference, and to demonstrate how you have put out your own philosophies for public criticism.

"Our wretched species is so made that those who walk on the well-trodden path always throw stones at those who are showing a new road." ----- Voltaire
 
Actually I don't know how conceptual The Tao of JKD is,it seems a collection of tid bits.

A short List
American Freestyle karate (BY you know who)
Damn near any post by Ron Chappel
For the other side of the coin Bruce Jucniks books
Tony Annesi
As far as philosophy
you could read the actual works that Bruce cited
Kant
Sarte
 
Throughout history the personal outlooks of men have become the religions of legions of followers. What never ceases to amaze me is how many who claim to follow Bruce Lee's philosophies completely ignore what he actually said due to their relentless worship of the man. Bruce Lee was just that - a man, flawed as are we all.

In that much famed "Lost Interview" he says (and I'm paraphrasing) that thousands of years ago, someone came up with their expression of the martial arts and centuries later it has become the gospel truth. He referred to "the classical mess" on many occassions. 32 years after he left this earth, the followers of Bruce Lee's teachings are mired in their own "classical mess" railing against those who wish to find their own personal expressions as "not doing what Bruce did". Of course not! Bruce Lee could stop hit a jab with a spin kick. I sure as hell can't so I'd better find something else to do.
Arnold Schwarzenegger didn't do extensive forearm work because whenever he touched a weight his forearms developed. So does that mean if I am an Arnold-ite I should never do forearms? I'd have the arms of a 12 year old.
Bruce did what worked for Bruce. We must find what works for us.

BTW, as far as the drugs thing. Morrison, Hendrix, and many other greats died young and abused drugs. So should I throw away my classic rock collection now?

Vic www.combatartusa.com
 
Nanalo74 said:
BTW, as far as the drugs thing. Morrison, Hendrix, and many other greats died young and abused drugs. So should I throw away my classic rock collection now?
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You really shouldn't have them. Please carefully package them for shipment and send them to me. I will ensure that they are properly disposed of.
 
One of Bill Hick's more popular jokes is about how if you disagree with drugs then you should take out all your rock albums and burn them, cause the musicans who made them were REALLY high on drugs.
 
An Eternal Student said:
One of Bill Hick's more popular jokes is about how if you disagree with drugs then you should take out all your rock albums and burn them, cause the musicans who made them were REALLY high on drugs.
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Basically. It's like I said, we're all human beings with our own idiosyncracies and habits. We all have our demons and dark sides. Bruce Lee was no different. While we can admire someone for the positive aspects and the legacies they left behind, no man or woman is worthy of worship.

Hell, I was raised on Bruce Lee. I can quote "Enter the Dragon" from the first frame to the last. One of my first words was "Bwuce 'ee". And I'm a JKD instructor. But I've grown beyond hero worship into the study of the principles and philosophy that the man taught.

Vic www.combatartusa.com
 
hammer said:
Bruce Lee, form my understanding chose what was useful for him, But who decides on what is useful and what is not for another, Example many will agrue and debate the kata serinaro, whether they are useful or not?

I belive that its all based on perception , and the maturity of the student and /or Instructor .As the phrase goes "what is one mans trash , is anothers mans treasure."

Many systems were purposefully designed , so perhaps learinning the complete system may provide greater value, which will then allow you to decide what is useful for you and what is not!

As far as adding addition material to the syllabus, well thats a bonus not a instead of, perhaps re -prioritizing maybe in order , but to disregard may be right for you, after you have already learnt it AND UNDERSTAND IT

Just my Thoughts
Cheers
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I understand your point but "using what is use full and rejecting what isn't is a concept that the public dosen't understand.

JKD concepts such as economy of motion, closest weapon to the closest target along with many others are enough to tell you that Kata is not useful from the JKD point of view.

And this is way out there
"Many systems were purposefully designed , so perhaps learinning the complete system may provide greater value, which will then allow you to decide what is useful for you and what is not!"
Making the most use of your time while training answers that one. :uhyeah:
 
MichiganTKD said:
Because we don't all worship Bruce Lee.
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Bruces students or the schools that they've "spawned" don't worship him. That would be the "jealous outsiders." Why else would they be bashing a dead person whose goal in the arts was to teach "personal liberation from the classical mess," as he described it.
 
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The Kai said:
Actually I don't know how conceptual The Tao of JKD is,it seems a collection of tid bits.

A short List
American Freestyle karate (BY you know who)
Damn near any post by Ron Chappel
For the other side of the coin Bruce Jucniks books
Tony Annesi
As far as philosophy
you could read the actual works that Bruce cited
Kant
Sarte
Click to expand...
Your short list is good. I have respect for what Dan Anderson has done but your list all came after the fact. :uhyeah:

And Bruce didn't write the Tao. It was written after his death based on his notes, just like many others.

Ever take notes? :uhyeah:
 
akja said:
Bruces students or the schools that they've "spawned" don't worship him. That would be the "jealous outsiders." Why else would they be bashing a dead person whose goal in the arts was to teach "personal liberation from the classical mess," as he described it.
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Well said. :)
 
Nanalo74 said:
Basically. It's like I said, we're all human beings with our own idiosyncracies and habits. We all have our demons and dark sides. Bruce Lee was no different. While we can admire someone for the positive aspects and the legacies they left behind, no man or woman is worthy of worship.

Hell, I was raised on Bruce Lee. I can quote "Enter the Dragon" from the first frame to the last. One of my first words was "Bwuce 'ee". And I'm a JKD instructor. But I've grown beyond hero worship into the study of the principles and philosophy that the man taught.

Vic www.combatartusa.com
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I think it's a part of human nature to look at the worst rather than accept the good that one does. Bruce was bold while he was alive. That was a part of his nature. But he had a lot to offer in terms of evolution in the martial arts.

A lot of people who were around at that time talk him down and whats worse, they pass on the BS on to their students. Some of them are "present." At that time, they were around but they were just followers of their instructor. They were not at Bruces level.

But if he wasn't "who he was" then he wouldn't of INFLUENCED some of our great warriors. Heres the "GREATEST KICKBOXER" of all time (as he calls himself) fighting system. Looks to me like JKD in disguise. :uhyeah:

http://www.kenpousa.com/lewis.htm

JOE LEWIS FREEFIGHTING SYSTEM


Setups

Positioning

Independent Movement

Initial Speed

Critical Distance Line

Line of Attack

Bridging the Gap

Five Primary Techniques

Leading Side Versus Rear Side

Economy of Motion

Relaxation Versus Tension

Mobility Versus Immobility

Extension, Hyper-Extension, Double Hyper-Extension

Leading Centers

Unpredictability Versus Classical Form

Straight Line Versus Curved Line

Defensive Choices

Initial Speed Versus Combinations

Faking

Constant Forward Pressure

Time Commitment Theory

Defensive Movement Patterns

Angle of Attack Versus Technique Variation

Half Commitment, Full Commitment, Extension Commitment

Theory of Broken Rhythm


1. SETUPS


1. Set yourself up physically and mentally.


Raise your energy level.

Use sparring partner for timing and distance.

Practice external focus.
2. Set up opponent verbally.


Confuse him.

Psyche him out.

3. Set up your opponent through body language.


Mislead him.

Frighten him.
2. POSITIONING


1. Position for mobility.

Keep in mind Constant Forward Pressure.

Be capable of moving offensively or defensively.

2. Position for distance.


Keep in mind your opponent's critical distance line when positioning.

Be able to bridge the gap effectively from your position.

3. Position for best defensive capability.


Keep in mind your defensive choices.

Keep all vital areas covered constantly.

4. Position for best offensive capability.


Keep in mind your line of attack.

Be in a relaxed state that you can explode out of.

5. Position with the right psychological attitude.


Be assertive.

Be active or passive according to how you want to set him up.
3. INDEPENDENT MOVEMENT


Strike moves independent of body and body follows.

No tell-tale leading centers.

Keep in mind relaxation versus tension.

Keep in mind initial speed and direct angle of attack.

Independent movement should be used with all five primary techniques.
4. INITIAL SPEED


Relax--Explode.

More important that timing speed or natural speed (MPH).
5. CRITICAL DISTANCE LINE


Your opponent's effective killing range is the critical distance line.

Your ability in bridging the gap will determine where you position yourself in relation to your opponent's critical distance line.
6. LINE OF ATTACK


INSIDE.

OUTSIDE.

MIDDLE.
7. BRIDGING THE GAP


Initial speed and proper footwork are the two most important principles involved in bridging the gap.

Keep in mind critical distance line.

Keep in mind extension, hyper-extension and double hyper-extension.

Keep in mind half commitment, full commitment and extension commitment.
8. FIVE PRIMARY TECHNIQUES


Sidefist or backfist (Leading side).

Inverted close punch (Leading side).

Reverse punch (Rear side).

Side kick or roundhouse (Wheel) kick (Leading side).

Spinning rear kick (Rear leg).
9. LEADING SIDE VERSUS REAR SIDE


Economy of motion in terms of shorter distance.

Bridges the gap faster.

Helps cut out leading centers.

Most of the five primary techniques come off the leading side.
10. ECONOMY OF MOTION


Keep in mind straight line versus curved line.

Keep in mind leading side versus rear side.

Concentrates on the direct angle of attack because economizes on movement and lessens the time commitment.
11. RELAXATION VERSUS TENSION


Initial speed increases.

Time commitment is less with fast initial speed.

Conserves energy.

More deceptive with less leading centers.
12. MOBILITY VERSUS IMMOBILITY


1. Footwork.


Basic stepping

Hopping

Switch stepping

Creeping

Shuffling

2. Directions.


Vertical.

Horizontal.

Arcing (Off angle).

3. With mobility there is more deceptiveness and unpredictability.

13. EXTENSION, HYPER-EXTENSION, DOUBLE HYPER-EXTENSION


Your own critical distance line increases if double hyper-extension is used.

Your ability to bridge the gap is more effective.

Keep in mind half commitment, full commitment, extension commitment.
14. LEADING CENTERS


In most of your techniques you should use independent motion and cut out all leading centers.

Leading centers can be used purposely in faking and broken rhythm.
15. UNPREDICTABILITY VERSUS CLASSICAL FORM


Use leading centers for faking and keeping your opponent off balance and jumpy.

Mobility is more unpredictable, keep moving using different kinds of

footwork and directions.

Use different kinds of broken rhythm.

Be interchangeable with straight lines and curved lines.

Be flexible with the different angles of attack.
16. STRAIGHT LINE VERSUS CURVED LINE


The most direct route to your target is a straight line.

A straight line attack is more powerful and economizes motion.

Most of the five primary techniques utilize a straight line of attack.
17. DEFENSIVE CHOICES


Hand and body positioning is a matter of preference with the individual as long as the vital areas are covered at all times.

There are four defensive movement patterns that can be used according to the size, structure and fighting attitude of the person using them; your opponent's size, technique, and footwork should also be a determining factor in what kind of defense you choose.

Be unpredictable and switch back and forth between the different defensive movement patterns to keep your opponent unsure of himself.
18. INITIAL SPEED VERSUS COMBINATIONS


Initial speed and the direct angle of attack are more spontaneous when you are externally focused.

Practice combinations is future thinking which is negative thinking.

Initial speed ties in with independent movement which gives us more

economy of movement.

There is less time commitment in the initial speed of the direct angle of attack.

A good portion of our practice and programming should be spent on initial speed and the direct angle of attack because it is one of the most important principles of them all.
19. FAKING


The main leading centers used in faking are:
Hip

Body

Shoulder

Faking is used in the direct angle of attack.

Faking makes your opponent commit himself and throws off his timing.

Faking is used in broken rhythm also and helps to increase your unpredictability.
20. CONSTANT FORWARD PRESSURE


Mental - assertiveness and external focus.

Physical - forward movement, offensive body positioning, and aggressive body language.

Result - Confusion.
21. TIME COMMITMENT THEORY


Keep in mind initial speed.

Bridge the gap with straight lines and direct angles of attack.

Keep in mind your opponents timing and reaction time, how much time does your technique take to complete in comparison to the time it takes for your opponent to react and counter.
22. DEFENSIVE MOVEMENT PATTERNS


1. Jammer - moves forward.


Use the direct angle of attack against a Jammer.

Use broken rhythm (move in with a body fake to draw him, move back as he tries to jam, and kick him as you retreat or move back into him).

2. Blocker - stays in position or moves a half step back.


80% of all fighters are blockers.

Use all five angles of attack against a blocker.

3. Runner - moves backward out of original position.


Use the direct angle of attack and hit him before he runs.

Use a combination and follow him.

Use broken rhythm (active - he runs, active - he runs, passive - hit him before he runs).

4. Elusive runner - moves all over and is unpredictable.


Set him up.

Wait until he comes to you.

5. Name your opponent by his footwork and by where he is at your point of contact with him.


He may be a jammer and intended to jam your move, but if you nailed him before he moved he is a blocker.

23. ANGLE OF ATTACK VERSUS TECHNIQUE VARIATION


If you can't make a technique work, change your angle of attack rather than change to a less effective technique.

Direct - Initial speed and independent motion.

Indirect - Fakes.

Combinations - Direct and Indirect.

Broken rhythm.
24. HALF COMMITMENT, FULL COMMITMENT, EXTENSION COMMITMENT


Set your opponent up with broken patterns (Full commitment-doesn't reach him, full
commitment-doesn't reach him, extension commitment-nail him by bridging the gap.

Be unpredictable and throw his timing and distance off.

Keep in mind extension, hyper-extension, and double hyper-extension.
25. THEORY OF BROKEN RHYTHM


Change target (low, low, high).

Change body rhythm (active, active, passive).

Change body motion (forward, backward, forward).

Change speed fast to slow to fast).

Change movement (stop, go).

Change angle of attack.

Change techniques.

Change positioning and set him up.

Change patterns of any sort.

Change attitude (aggressive, passive).

Change your defensive choice.

Change your footwork.

Change your commitment.

Change your line of attack (inside, inside, outside).

Be totally unpredictable with broken rhythm and throw your opponents timing totally off.
 
Feisty Mouse said:
Well said. :)
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Thank you! I was thinking the same thing when you wrote.
You don't have to worship someone to respect them, or their legacy.
:asian:
 
akja said:
Your short list is good. I have respect for what Dan Anderson has done but your list all came after the fact. :uhyeah:

And Bruce didn't write the Tao. It was written after his death based on his notes, just like many others.

Ever take notes? :uhyeah:
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I did'nt think important, if that is a consideration most everything from the Tao is copied from other sources, do you count date by the original or by the copy?? Again Bruce is given credit for what writing notes?

Bruce lee, there is Dogma around him like anyone else, maybe it's time to let him go, quit raising his name to justify your ideas, AND let him rest in peace
 
The Kai said:
I did'nt think important, if that is a consideration most everything from the Tao is copied from other sources, do you count date by the original or by the copy?? Again Bruce is given credit for what writing notes?

Bruce lee, there is Dogma around him like anyone else, maybe it's time to let him go, quit raising his name to justify your ideas, AND let him rest in peace
Click to expand...
I with you more than you think. The Bruce bashing is pure ignorance. How's the Kenpo community going to feel about Parker or Emperado bashing? They followed their own paths as well.
 
Lets try to focus on the original topic of the thread, which is how your school teaches. Do they discard things that may not be as usefull in a situation as others would be, or possibly add in something that your school does not cover as in depth, such as grappling.

I realize that Bruce Lee may not be on everyones Top 10 list of favorite people, but bashing him does not really provide for a productive topic.

Thanks,

Mike
 
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