Does This Seem Fair?

[karate-dragon]

Seems to me that a Sensei would have a little more self-control and handle the situation in a little more level headed manner. What the kids did was wrong and disrespectful. But answering that by losing his cool and being aggressive to 14 year olds is equally wrong. I agree that being clear minded and calm and walking them back to their parents would have been a better tactic and would have been a better example to his own students.

 

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

I want to thank everyone for their replies to this thread, and I do have to agree with all of you, that he was wrong in what he did and how he reacted. As a little bit of a follow up, he found out the names of the kids involved called them at their homes and appologized to them and their parents for what he did. He also offered each one of the kids a month of free classes if they wanted. They accepted and are doing quite well I must say!
​

 

[MJS]

I want to thank everyone for their replies to this thread, and I do have to agree with all of you, that he was wrong in what he did and how he reacted. As a little bit of a follow up, he found out the names of the kids involved called them at their homes and appologized to them and their parents for what he did. He also offered each one of the kids a month of free classes if they wanted. They accepted and are doing quite well I must say!​

Glad to hear things worked out for everyone.

Mike

 

[Gordon Nore]

I have a serious issue with an adult trained fighter beating on a child to prove a point. Yeah, the kids are idiots, that's fer sure....but that instructor was totally out of line...

My sentiment, exactly. Hearing that Sensei "burst outside" and put hands on a middle-school aged kid over a walk-by-spitting and bird-flipping seems over the top to me. Flip this story around and suppose that Sensei had called the police over, we all know that the police would probably not have shown up.

Why?

Because in the grand scheme of things, the worst these kids are really guilty of is vulgarity and stupidity. It's distasteful and annoying, but I don't know that it's worthy of a dramatic response, since property was defaced (but not really damaged) and business was not really disrupted. Had Sensei walked outside, told them to clean up their mess and get lost, that would seem a proportional response.

My question: Is this a school where children are taught? If so, I would suggest this sets a rather thuggish example. I have no tears for the kids who pulled the stunt, but I do believe adults ought to know better.

 

[Gordon Nore]

I want to thank everyone for their replies to this thread, and I do have to agree with all of you, that he was wrong in what he did and how he reacted. As a little bit of a follow up, he found out the names of the kids involved called them at their homes and appologized to them and their parents for what he did. He also offered each one of the kids a month of free classes if they wanted. They accepted and are doing quite well I must say!
​

Sorry, Kennedy,

I jumped the gun and shot my mouth off before reading your final post. I'm glad things worked out, and I think your teacher made a better choice in the end.

 

[Loki]

My instructor has to sometimes scare off teens who come in to our studio, turn off the lights and leave, and the worst he ever got to was threatening.

I'm also of the opinion that the reaction was excessive. I think he should have grabbed him and told him not to mess with the dojo again, let him go and clean the spit off. I doubt the kids would have tried the same stunt again.

[later edit] It's nice to see it ended that way. They actually joined? Good for them, and good for your instructor!

 

[Gordon Nore]

...I'm also of the opinion that the reaction was excessive. I think he should have grabbed him and told him not to mess with the dojo again, let him go and clean the spit off. I doubt the kids would have tried the same stunt again...

In this instance I think that would still qualify as assault and could furthermore be interpreted as a threat.

 

[still learning]

Hello, We all over react at times. (Human beings are NOT perfect).You can be proud your Sensi understood this and said sorry to those kids and their parents.

At least the parents are more aware of the behaivor of their own kids and realize it was not the Sensi total fault.

Your Sensi was being humble and realize his errors. Glad to hear at least one of the kids is now a student.

Each sitution that happens in our life..can be a good learning lessons, if you accept it and make the best outcome of it.

Aloha ( from someone who made lots of mistakes and is still learning!)

 

[tempus]

The on interesting point is that when I was that young I would never had done what those kids did. Why? Becaue if my father found out he would have put me thru a wall. Hence I was never being a bad kid. Differnt times now I guess.

 

[Sukerkin]

A sadly true indictment of the 'triumph of the overly liberal', Tempus.

Glad to hear that the sensei at the heart of this tale had the fortitude to face up to the fact he'd made a mistake and do what he could to balance the scales. Well done that man.

 

[charyuop]

Your Sensei should have broken the little rascal's neck!!!

No, well kidding apart, maybe the reaction was over the edge, but what alse to do? I don't think your Sensei went out with the intention of assaulting the kid, but if I well read you said the kid tried to punch your Sensei. Going out there and trying to talk some sense into those kids and in reply receiving a punch I bet would have made lose temper to anyone.
Maybe just blocking the punch showing the kid he couldn't do much to him would have opened a window for your Sensei to talk to the kid...but hey, everyone can talk calmly from his desk behind a keyboard.

 

[CoryKS]

I had a similar experience. Turns out that 'assault' means that you gave someone the impression that you might hit them. Actually hitting them is 'battery'. Who knew?

I think that the sensei was wrong in this situation, just as I was wrong in mine. However, I think he gave those two a very valuable lesson in real world experience that was completely voided by the officer.

Which of these do you think contributes to the better behavior of our citizens?
1) The realization that, if you harass other people, you might suffer for it; or
2) The knowledge that you can do anything you want to others short of touching them, and then use the law to ruin their lives when they respond?

 

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

Perhaps to add to my story I'll give you a little back info on where I'm from. This was a tiny town population of about 11 000 people. Kids who live in this town don't have much in the way of entertainment, and get bored very easily. There have been problems with spray painting, broken store windows, plants in the downtown area dumped and destroyed, the list goes on and on. And it seems the town keeps coming up with excuses, "they're just young" "they'll learn" etc etc. And as they're so young and so many it's hard for the police to really do a whole lot to stop them. We had the front window of our dojo smashed a few months before this happened, plus someone had tossed paintballs at our building which was not fun to clean off I don't mind telling you.

Was my Sensei wrong in how he reacted, yes for sure (though he could claim self defence as I stated the kid did take a swing at him)

Was he maybe just trying to make a stand and show the kids that they couldn't just get away with whatever they wanted...? I'll leave it up all of you to decide.
​

 

[DavidCC]

Well, a tricky situation for sure. Did the Sensei take a risky course, I think so. But will those boys have something to think about next tiem they are tempted to act that way again? I hope so. Sounds like the police might have done the right thing: let the Sensei know he was close to going over the line, and hopefully let the kids know they were over the line and the the Sensei is NOT in trouble for what he did. We don't know from the posts what the police said to the kids or their parents, I will assume they did the right thing.

Would the Sensei have been legally safe if he had detained the spitter until the polcie arrived in response to his vandalism complaint? "citizen's Arrest"???

-D

 

[Kreth]

Would the Sensei have been legally safe if he had detained the spitter until the polcie arrived in response to his vandalism complaint? "citizen's Arrest"???

-D

It's questionable with a juvenile involved. I can think of at least one incident when I was bouncing where we did just that with an adult. A guy was whacked out on some prescription drugs, and flailing around, throwing punches as we escorted him outside. We took him down and controlled him until the cops arrived.

 

[still learning]

Perhaps to add to my story I'll give you a little back info on where I'm from. This was a tiny town population of about 11 000 people. Kids who live in this town don't have much in the way of entertainment, and get bored very easily. There have been problems with spray painting, broken store windows, plants in the downtown area dumped and destroyed, the list goes on and on. And it seems the town keeps coming up with excuses, "they're just young" "they'll learn" etc etc. And as they're so young and so many it's hard for the police to really do a whole lot to stop them. We had the front window of our dojo smashed a few months before this happened, plus someone had tossed paintballs at our building which was not fun to clean off I don't mind telling you.​

Was my Sensei wrong in how he reacted, yes for sure (though he could claim self defence as I stated the kid did take a swing at him)​

Was he maybe just trying to make a stand and show the kids that they couldn't just get away with whatever they wanted...? I'll leave it up all of you to decide.​

Hello, From the begging of time, the first man "Adam, his wife " and their childen....taughts us human behavior.

Those kids learn good is a nice thing to do....because one of other child did not receive as much attention....he/she learn by being bad....they got attention alright! Note: Adam was from a small village-population (7).

Parents that give lots of "Love and attention" to their kids and act as good role models. Find themselves with alot of good and caring kids/teens/young adults. (NOT ALWAYS).

Those kids who do not have caring and good role models to follow and lack love and attention....then to go "BAD" to get attention many times. (NOT ALWAYS TOO!).

We all need to feel love and we all need attention, (especially dogs) have you notice that!

Concept of martial arts: Adept the good side of the "dog" behavior!
YEP:" learn to wag your tail."

 

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

still_learning:

Excellent post and a very interesting thesis on the understanding of behaviour of juniors....if there is such thing as understanding the behaviour of juniors...

​

 

[charyuop]

But now that your Sensei has given those kids a free months at your dojo...is he using this free month to beat the crap out of them? hee hee J/K

 

[Touch Of Death]

Was training at my Sensei's Dojo the other day when he asked me to take over classes so he could get a drink, talk with some of the leaving students etc. As he was talking to some of the students in the lobby, a couple of punk kids (I'd say 13, 14 at the oldest) walk by. They stop in front of the front window, the one kid pitches the bird into the Dojo and the other spit on the window. My Sensei pretty much burst outside, the one kid tried taking a swing at him so he grabbed the one kid by his shirt, picked him up and wiped off the spit stain...with the kid. The two kids ran off and we thought this would be the end of the incident.

Half hour later, the a police officer shows up saying that he's investigating a case of assault against my Sensei. All the students backed up my Sensei's story as to why he did what he did. The police officer said that he didn't believe us as we would 'obviously' back up our instructor. As he is in good standing with the police in our town they let him off with a warning, told him that if they ever heard of him 'assaulting' anyone they would be forced to fine him etc etc.

Does this seem wrong to anyone else?

Your intructor had no right to do that, but tell him I will buy him a beer if I ever see him.:drinkbeer
Sean

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Though I think the kids were wrong I think the response was over the top. I think he could have been much more in control of his response.