Does the old attitude of bullies exist still

[Tez3]

Most of the examples I gave are of bullying. Leben pissing in a guys bed and mocking the guys accent, Hughes beating up his fighters because they didnt do it to his level, koscheck sprays a hose on a guy and constantly verbally tormented Gsp. Rousey okay I'd go more in the jerk column for her still love watching holly holm kick her head off and kick away all the overhype around her and sending her into retirement (no way in hell she's coming back)

Ah I see, you are equating what happens for the media as being 'real life' and assume that all MMA people are potential bullies because they go into MMA just to learn to fight so they can bully people. Oh well, that's all right then. Btw I doubt GSP felt tormented, he understands the truth of the matter.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Ah I see, you are equating what happens for the media as being 'real life' and assume that all MMA people are potential bullies because they go into MMA just to learn to fight so they can bully people. Oh well, that's all right then. Btw I doubt GSP felt tormented, he understands the truth of the matter.

Uh huh having fun putting words into people's mouth? You seem to like to do that don't you

 

[Tez3]

Uh huh having fun putting words into people's mouth? You seem to like to do that don't you

Settle down and read how your posts come across as slagging off MMA and the people who do it. You keep mentioning the UFC and the fighters as being bullies when it's clear that they aren't, they are playing up to the media for whatever reason either to get publicity or because they are idiots, whatever, but you keep saying that MMA is where the bullies are, go, read your posts again this time pretend you didn't write them and see how they come across.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Settle down and read how your posts come across as slagging off MMA and the people who do it. You keep mentioning the UFC and the fighters as being bullies when it's clear that they aren't, they are playing up to the media for whatever reason either to get publicity or because they are idiots, whatever, but you keep saying that MMA is where the bullies are, go, read your posts again this time pretend you didn't write them and see how they come across.

You believe whatever you want to believe I gave real examples simple as that. I know you seem to think you know every thing there is to know about mma but there are bullies in mma and there are bullies in traditional martial arts I'm saying that bullies these days would be more attracted to mma than traditional martial arts which is the truth mma gyms are much busier than traditional schools these days

 

[Ironbear24]

MMA might attract more assholes (ufc fanboys) but I doubt they would stick around long enough to really get good anything.

Martial arts takes a person with lots of a patience and overall being humble. Without those you won't make it far at all.

 

[Tez3]

You believe whatever you want to believe I gave real examples simple as that. I know you seem to think you know every thing there is to know about mma but there are bullies in mma and there are bullies in traditional martial arts I'm saying that bullies these days would be more attracted to mma than traditional martial arts which is the truth mma gyms are much busier than traditional schools these days

You gave 'real' examples yet no one agrees with you. it's idiotic behaviour certainly but not bullying. You see I'm not the one who is believing whatever I want to, you have decided now that MMA gyms are busier than TMA ones, what evidence do you have for that?
There are bullies in every walk of life, every sport and pastime time, every career and job but to single out MMA as appealing to bullies more than TMA is simply conjecture on your part based on what you think is going on in TUF. Others have disagreed with you as well yet you don't take it up with them, I wonder why?

 

[drop bear]

You believe whatever you want to believe I gave real examples simple as that. I know you seem to think you know every thing there is to know about mma but there are bullies in mma and there are bullies in traditional martial arts I'm saying that bullies these days would be more attracted to mma than traditional martial arts which is the truth mma gyms are much busier than traditional schools these days

Why do you think that is the case? In a traditional art if you gain rank you gain power over other people.

Plenty of people use beurocracy to bully people.

 

[Tez3]

Why do you think that is the case? In a traditional art if you gain rank you gain power over other people.

Plenty of people use beurocracy to bully people.

A friend of mine wanted me to go with her to a martial arts club where she was thinking of taking her children. What we found was an instructor who had the children bowing (on their knees) every time they talked to him, if they forgot or he didn't like the way they did it or anything else it was a 100 press ups, far too many for 5-10 year olds. He barked orders at them like a Sgt.Maj. and expected to be called 'master' by everyone including the parents. It was clear he enjoyed the power over the children, this man was a bully. I've heard similar stories for other places, luckily not many but the atmosphere that can be created in some TMA clubs/schools can be very attractive to bullies.
As you say without rank in MMA it's harder to gain that power , each person has to train for themselves and if they don't co-operate with others when grappling/sparring then they won't last long. Discipline is strong in MMA gyms because there is a very real danger of severe harm if people aren't mindful of what they are doing and try to bully others. There's always going to be someone bigger, better, faster who will not appreciate a bully in the gym. Bullies will be bullies and will try it on, it's up to everyone to stop those bullies.

 

[oftheherd1]

So there can never be high ranking Dan's in martial arts who are assholes?

I afraid you don't understand what he is saying. Look again.

 

[sgraves]

A friend of mine wanted me to go with her to a martial arts club where she was thinking of taking her children. What we found was an instructor who had the children bowing (on their knees) every time they talked to him, if they forgot or he didn't like the way they did it or anything else it was a 100 press ups, far too many for 5-10 year olds. He barked orders at them like a Sgt.Maj. and expected to be called 'master' by everyone including the parents. It was clear he enjoyed the power over the children, this man was a bully. I've heard similar stories for other places, luckily not many but the atmosphere that can be created in some TMA clubs/schools can be very attractive to bullies.
As you say without rank in MMA it's harder to gain that power , each person has to train for themselves and if they don't co-operate with others when grappling/sparring then they won't last long. Discipline is strong in MMA gyms because there is a very real danger of severe harm if people aren't mindful of what they are doing and try to bully others. There's always going to be someone bigger, better, faster who will not appreciate a bully in the gym. Bullies will be bullies and will try it on, it's up to everyone to stop those bullies.

reading about that instructor just really pissed me off who the hell does that guy think he is that's not how you teach kids he isn't a warrior he is a clown with a martial arts uniform on makes me sick that he has any students at all

 

[Tez3]

reading about that instructor just really pissed me off who the hell does that guy think he is that's not how you teach kids he isn't a warrior he is a clown with a martial arts uniform on makes me sick that he has any students at all

I've seen this type of behaviour within a variety of organisations, there's those people who feel that they need to 'be in charge' and it feeds their egos to be able to act this way. Luckily they are the small minority but you find them mostly in youth organisations, the military cadets are a favourite for them. They usually do get found out though usually through their own stupidity because they always go too far and get thrown out luckily. I believe the instructor we went to see is out of business now, people simply do cotton on to what's going on especially when you stand there and tell the parents that what is going on is unacceptable lol! I did think he would perhaps challenge me but I think he didn't want to take the chance a middle aged woman could beat him in front of his students. I don't know whether I could have but damn me I would have given it a good go.

 

[drop bear]

Found this one. Might help explain the mma mentality a bit.


Talking about fight club

 

[Tez3]

Found this one. Might help explain the mma mentality a bit.


Talking about fight club

Thank you. That's one of the best articles I've read yet. It's exactly what I've found over the years. Not everyone wants to compete but everyone does put a tremendous amount into their training. And yes, it does take great discipline and commitment. It's not that bullies don't have the strength etc to do that, it's that they find out that bullying people who are gaining in confidence and self esteem all the time are not people you can bully easily.
I would go so far to say that if you have been bullied or still are try MMA, not for the defence part ( though that will help) but for the building up of your self worth and confidence. Yes it will build your ego but to a healthy level, ignore what you see on the 'reality' television programmes, they are directed to produce 'drama' and viewing figures, they aren't real life.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

So there can never be high ranking Dan's in martial arts who are assholes?

I didn't say that. Anyone can learn the moves and processes of martial arts, regardless of their temperament. The key to learning is only dedication to training. A 'bad person' can learn to be quite devastating as a physical martial artist, they can smash bricks and hurt people and generally be a bad actor all around.

But this is surface. The core of martial arts has nothing to do with the belt one wears around their waist. It has to do with the content of their character. Martial arts contains within it a doorway to a deeper understanding, and this door cannot be opened by anyone who harbours bad intent. One might say that to pass through this doorway, one must be spotless in character, or perhaps passing through this doorway purifies the character (chicken/egg question).

To those of ill will, the doorway not only cannot be opened, they generally cannot even perceive that it exists. They are content to believe that they have penetrated the mysteries, risen to the highest echelon, and some cannot be persuaded otherwise.

High rank means little in the deeper sense.

In the Japanese concept of 'do' or 'way', (karate-do for example), the path one is on is a path towards improvement of character. It necessarily involves punching and kicking and so on - that is the karate part. The 'do' part is the part that looks inward, seeking constant improvement.

This is why in Japan, flower arrangers (kado) , tea makers (chado), calligraphers (shodo), and other disciplines are also 'do'. They are of course concerned with their conception of proper flower arranging, tea making, or character-drawing, but the deeper 'do' is very much concerned with the improvement of the character of the person doing it, as karatedo is as well.

When I say a bully cannot advance in karate(do) this is what I mean. And when it comes back to the physical plane, no matter if a bully prevails or not; they have still lost everything that matters. They merely disgrace themselves, the belt they wear, and the art they represent.

EDIT: Let me introduce you to kyodo, an art which I admire but do not (currently) practice:

Kyūdō - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"According to the Nippon Kyudo Federation the supreme goal of kyudo is the state of shin-zen-bi, roughly "truth-goodness-beauty",[6] which can be approximated as: when archers shoot correctly (i.e. truthfully) with virtuous spirit and attitude toward all persons and all things which relate to kyudo (i.e. with goodness), beautiful shooting is realised naturally."

In other words, kyodo is archery. And yet, it is not, because they believe that the external component (hitting the target with an arrow) can only be achieved when the internal component is correctly performed (virtuous spirit and attitude).

It may sound mystical, but it is not. It is simply recognizing that the world is more connected than some wish to believe.

 

[oftheherd1]

I didn't say that. Anyone can learn the moves and processes of martial arts, regardless of their temperament. The key to learning is only dedication to training. A 'bad person' can learn to be quite devastating as a physical martial artist, they can smash bricks and hurt people and generally be a bad actor all around.

But this is surface. The core of martial arts has nothing to do with the belt one wears around their waist. It has to do with the content of their character. Martial arts contains within it a doorway to a deeper understanding, and this door cannot be opened by anyone who harbours bad intent. One might say that to pass through this doorway, one must be spotless in character, or perhaps passing through this doorway purifies the character (chicken/egg question).

To those of ill will, the doorway not only cannot be opened, they generally cannot even perceive that it exists. They are content to believe that they have penetrated the mysteries, risen to the highest echelon, and some cannot be persuaded otherwise.

High rank means little in the deeper sense.

In the Japanese concept of 'do' or 'way', (karate-do for example), the path one is on is a path towards improvement of character. It necessarily involves punching and kicking and so on - that is the karate part. The 'do' part is the part that looks inward, seeking constant improvement.

This is why in Japan, flower arrangers (kado) , tea makers (chado), calligraphers (shodo), and other disciplines are also 'do'. They are of course concerned with their conception of proper flower arranging, tea making, or character-drawing, but the deeper 'do' is very much concerned with the improvement of the character of the person doing it, as karatedo is as well.

When I say a bully cannot advance in karate(do) this is what I mean. And when it comes back to the physical plane, no matter if a bully prevails or not; they have still lost everything that matters. They merely disgrace themselves, the belt they wear, and the art they represent.

EDIT: Let me introduce you to kyodo, an art which I admire but do not (currently) practice:

Kyūdō - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"According to the Nippon Kyudo Federation the supreme goal of kyudo is the state of shin-zen-bi, roughly "truth-goodness-beauty",[6] which can be approximated as: when archers shoot correctly (i.e. truthfully) with virtuous spirit and attitude toward all persons and all things which relate to kyudo (i.e. with goodness), beautiful shooting is realised naturally."

In other words, kyodo is archery. And yet, it is not, because they believe that the external component (hitting the target with an arrow) can only be achieved when the internal component is correctly performed (virtuous spirit and attitude).

It may sound mystical, but it is not. It is simply recognizing that the world is more connected than some wish to believe.

All good explanations above by Bill. Since Bill mentioned Kyudo, you might want to read what afik is the first Zen and the Art of book: Zen in the Art of archery, by Eugen Herngel. As Bill mentions, "It may sound mystical, but it is not. It is simply recognizing that the world is more connected than some wish to believe." It should not however, be thought of as confined to Zen, or any other religion as required as a religious or Do necessity. At least that is the way I believe. Others may believe as they wish.

 

[Ironbear24]

I didn't say that. Anyone can learn the moves and processes of martial arts, regardless of their temperament. The key to learning is only dedication to training. A 'bad person' can learn to be quite devastating as a physical martial artist, they can smash bricks and hurt people and generally be a bad actor all around.

But this is surface. The core of martial arts has nothing to do with the belt one wears around their waist. It has to do with the content of their character. Martial arts contains within it a doorway to a deeper understanding, and this door cannot be opened by anyone who harbours bad intent. One might say that to pass through this doorway, one must be spotless in character, or perhaps passing through this doorway purifies the character (chicken/egg question).

To those of ill will, the doorway not only cannot be opened, they generally cannot even perceive that it exists. They are content to believe that they have penetrated the mysteries, risen to the highest echelon, and some cannot be persuaded otherwise.

High rank means little in the deeper sense.

In the Japanese concept of 'do' or 'way', (karate-do for example), the path one is on is a path towards improvement of character. It necessarily involves punching and kicking and so on - that is the karate part. The 'do' part is the part that looks inward, seeking constant improvement.

This is why in Japan, flower arrangers (kado) , tea makers (chado), calligraphers (shodo), and other disciplines are also 'do'. They are of course concerned with their conception of proper flower arranging, tea making, or character-drawing, but the deeper 'do' is very much concerned with the improvement of the character of the person doing it, as karatedo is as well.

When I say a bully cannot advance in karate(do) this is what I mean. And when it comes back to the physical plane, no matter if a bully prevails or not; they have still lost everything that matters. They merely disgrace themselves, the belt they wear, and the art they represent.

EDIT: Let me introduce you to kyodo, an art which I admire but do not (currently) practice:

Kyūdō - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"According to the Nippon Kyudo Federation the supreme goal of kyudo is the state of shin-zen-bi, roughly "truth-goodness-beauty",[6] which can be approximated as: when archers shoot correctly (i.e. truthfully) with virtuous spirit and attitude toward all persons and all things which relate to kyudo (i.e. with goodness), beautiful shooting is realised naturally."

In other words, kyodo is archery. And yet, it is not, because they believe that the external component (hitting the target with an arrow) can only be achieved when the internal component is correctly performed (virtuous spirit and attitude).

It may sound mystical, but it is not. It is simply recognizing that the world is more connected than some wish to believe.

I feel like I understood none of that.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I feel like I understood none of that.

Maybe you will in time. Keep training!

 

[Ironbear24]

Maybe you will in time. Keep training!

Osu!

Ever wonder what that means anyway?

 

[Kickboxer101]

Osu!

Ever wonder what that means anyway?

It means yes or hello if a teacher asks a question in a Japanese style school you reply with osu sensai

 

[sgraves]

You believe whatever you want to believe I gave real examples simple as that. I know you seem to think you know every thing there is to know about mma but there are bullies in mma and there are bullies in traditional martial arts I'm saying that bullies these days would be more attracted to mma than traditional martial arts which is the truth mma gyms are much busier than traditional schools these days

you do have a point there are bullies attracted to mma cause what they are seeing is the sheer combat and ruthlessness of it all but when they see how hard mm fighters have to work like real mma fighters they never last long