Does mixing belts in a gym tend to create drama?

[skribs]

Might seem like a silly question, but it's one that I think might be worth bringing up. Currently I'm 30 minutes away from my BJJ gym and 30 hours away from my TKD gym. There isn't much in the way of martial arts in my current town. I'd like to build a TKD gym here, also looking at bringing BJJ here. I'm thinking about the viability of both being under one roof.

One worry I have is that the faster black belts on the TKD side might be looked down on by the BJJ side and create some tension between the two. I love both arts. I wouldn't want to create a place where there's disrespect or bullying between the classes.

Have you been in a gym where there are wildly different ranking systems in the different classes? Did that create any drama? How were the tensions resolved?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I've never seen drama. People know that different arts award rank at different times. People will attend both classes if they want, or just one, and wear the appropriate belt for the appropriate class.

 

[MuayJitsu]

Easy: scrap the belts just focus on the training

 

[geezer]

I've never seen drama. People know that different arts award rank at different times. People will attend both classes if they want, or just one, and wear the appropriate belt for the appropriate class.

Agreed. I don't do BJJ, but I have taught different systems with different attitudes about rank in the same gym. It wasn't a problem. You run the gym? You set the tone and expectations.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Might seem like a silly question, but it's one that I think might be worth bringing up. Currently I'm 30 minutes away from my BJJ gym and 30 hours away from my TKD gym. There isn't much in the way of martial arts in my current town. I'd like to build a TKD gym here, also looking at bringing BJJ here. I'm thinking about the viability of both being under one roof.

One worry I have is that the faster black belts on the TKD side might be looked down on by the BJJ side and create some tension between the two. I love both arts. I wouldn't want to create a place where there's disrespect or bullying between the classes.

Have you been in a gym where there are wildly different ranking systems in the different classes? Did that create any drama? How were the tensions resolved?

I know of two Shorin-ryu dojos in my area that also have BJJ, and a Tang Soo Do dojang that also has it. In fact, this particular dojang has a requirement to achieve blue belt in BJJ in order to be eligible for black belt in TSD. So there are schools that make this work.

 

[isshinryuronin]

this particular dojang has a requirement to achieve blue belt in BJJ in order to be eligible for black belt in TSD.

Is there a similar requirement to learn TSD in order to get a BJJ belt?

 

[Hot Lunch]

Is there a similar requirement to learn TSD in order to get a BJJ belt?

No, it's just one way. They're primarily a TSD school that later added BJJ.

 

[drop bear]

No.

I also know of a couple of gyms that advocate mixing fighters in with the regular class

 

[JowGaWolf]

Might seem like a silly question, but it's one that I think might be worth bringing up. Currently I'm 30 minutes away from my BJJ gym and 30 hours away from my TKD gym. There isn't much in the way of martial arts in my current town. I'd like to build a TKD gym here, also looking at bringing BJJ here. I'm thinking about the viability of both being under one roof.

One worry I have is that the faster black belts on the TKD side might be looked down on by the BJJ side and create some tension between the two. I love both arts. I wouldn't want to create a place where there's disrespect or bullying between the classes.

Have you been in a gym where there are wildly different ranking systems in the different classes? Did that create any drama? How were the tensions resolved?

Sometimes you think too much and over complicated things. You only need to not screw up on the main functions of what you are trying to do. People understand that a belt for one system doesn't have anything to do with a belt for another system

The problem that you will have is that your hyper focus on belts is going to bleed into your students. Then it will be a problem

Like I always say. Focus on the skill and not the belt. Failure to do this means you'll produce some weak black belts with no real fighting skill. Then your belts won't mean squat.

Belts should reflect the skill. If you aren't focused on quality skill then your belt will be nothing more than a participation reward.

I don't know anyone that stresses more over belts than you do. Start with the skill and what you want your students to accomplish with that skill set.

I rather have solid white belts than flimsy black belts.

 

[skribs]

I know of two Shorin-ryu dojos in my area that also have BJJ, and a Tang Soo Do dojang that also has it. In fact, this particular dojang has a requirement to achieve blue belt in BJJ in order to be eligible for black belt in TSD. So there are schools that make this work.

Kind of reminds me of a BJJ guy on Youtube that won't give people a purple belt unless they have striking training, or a brown belt unless they have firearms training.

I think its an interesting idea, but I personally disagree with it. I don't think people who are interested in TSD but not BJJ should be required to do the art they aren't interested in, just to excel in the one they are.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Sometimes you think too much and over complicated things. You only need to not screw up on the main functions of what you are trying to do. People understand that a belt for one system doesn't have anything to do with a belt for another system

The problem that you will have is that your hyper focus on belts is going to bleed into your students. Then it will be a problem

Like I always say. Focus on the skill and not the belt. Failure to do this means you'll produce some weak black belts with no real fighting skill. Then your belts won't mean squat.

Belts should reflect the skill. If you aren't focused on quality skill then your belt will be nothing more than a participation reward.

I don't know anyone that stresses more over belts than you do. Start with the skill and what you want your students to accomplish with that skill set.

I rather have solid white belts than flimsy black belts.

Sometimes the things we should listen to are the things we don't want to hear. Glad to be of help.

 

[skribs]

Sometimes the things we should listen to are the things we don't want to hear. Glad to be of help.

This comment started out condescending, and ended with complete arrogance. You're not my teacher. Don't try to be.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Have you been in a gym where there are wildly different ranking systems in the different classes? Did that create any drama? How were the tensions resolved?

It's good to consider potential unintended outcomes. It's a smart management practice that can save headaches down the road (I wish our government would do that). Another important mgmt. practice is as geezer states below.

You set the tone and expectations.

I think if you explain a little about each art to the other guys, including ranks, but other concepts as well, all will be able to appreciate each other's hard work and dedication to their respective art. While there are stark differences between TKD and BJJ, there are also some similarities that can bring all together. It's a matter of mutual respect. All starts from the top.

 

[JowGaWolf]

This comment started out condescending, and ended with complete arrogance. You're not my teacher. Don't try to be.

I have no interest in being your teacher. I have never told you how to kick, to punch, to submit someone, or how to throw someone. I simply tell you what I see from the collection of your conversations. I as gor the tone in which you read my statements. There's very little I can do about that. If you don't like the tone of my statements then simply read it with a different tone. It's easy for people to read in a tone that the writers aren't thinking in. As for the condescending everyone has an interpretation on what that means and communication through writing tends to make that less flexible.

People are already successfully doing what you ask without problems and that's because the focus is not on the belt, it's on the skill.

The concept of having more than one martial art system under one roof is not a new concept. TKD is not BJJ. People know that a belt in one doesn't transferred to the other. "Everyone starts at the beginning" in addition the TKD and BJJ would be under the same GYM ran by the same person. It's not the same as two different TMA schools operating under the same roof where there is a risk of one school losing students to the other school.

I understand your desire to be perfect in your endeavor but sometimes that drive causes more issues than it resolves. Over analyzing possible issues can often create problems that don't exist.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

One of my local peers is a BJJ black belt/ TKD 6th dan and runs a school where he teaches both BJJ and TKD. I haven’t heard of any drama at his school based on the 2 rank systems, so I presume that his students are able to keep the two separate without any confusion.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It's good to consider potential unintended outcomes. It's a smart management practice that can save headaches down the road (I wish our government would do that). Another important mgmt. practice is as geezer states below.

From what I've seen there is no issue when both systems are under the same name. It no different than a regular gym where all members are under the same name but take different classes.

I personally would never allow 2 different schools to operate in the same building. That's just asking for trouble. If they want to teach at my gym then they would do so with the understanding that they are teaching a class in my gym and not a school. Gym standards and requirements apply to classes. I wouldn't give the teachers of those classes to roam free.

If anything both systems should benefit greatly. You BJJ has a group of strikers they can spar with and you TKD students have a group of dedicated grapplers to train against. But that will only happen if the focus is on the skill and not the belt.

 

[JowGaWolf]

From what I've seen there is no issue when both systems are under the same name. It no different than a regular gym where all members are under the same name but take different classes.

I personally would never allow 2 different schools to operate in the same building. That's just asking for trouble. If they want to teach at my gym then they would do so with the understanding that they are teaching a class in my gym and not a school. Gym standards and requirements apply to classes. I wouldn't give the teachers of those classes to roam free.

If anything both systems should benefit greatly. You BJJ has a group of strikers they can spar with and you TKD students have a group of dedicated grapplers to train against. But that will only happen if the focus is on the skill and not the belt.

If I wanted to teach Jow Ga at my current gym then I would do so with the understanding that I'm nit running a Jow Ga school out of the Gym. I'm only teaching Jow Ga as a class at the gym. I think this is the default expectation but gyms still make it clear, " You teach under us" we don't host your school.

 

[Hot Lunch]

One of my local peers is a BJJ black belt/ TKD 6th dan and runs a school where he teaches both BJJ and TKD. I haven’t heard of any drama at his school based on the 2 rank systems, so I presume that his students are able to keep the two separate without any confusion.

Could there potentially be a problem if the speed of promotion in one art affects how the school is going to promote in the other art? I think that that could be a thing. Someone gets an inferiority complex about the prestige of a BJJ black belt, so they slow down the promotion in their primary art to match that. OR... the black belt BJJ instructor could have hang-ups about frustrations in the past about being passed over, vowing not to make his or her own students go through that (I trained for a month at a BJJ school like this), and could do something to close the gap in the speed of promotion with the other art.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Could there potentially be a problem if the speed of promotion in one art affects how the school is going to promote in the other art? I think that that could be a thing. Someone gets an inferiority complex about the prestige of a BJJ black belt, so they slow down the promotion in their primary art to match that. OR... the black belt BJJ instructor could have hang-ups about frustrations in the past about being passed over, vowing not to make his or her own students go through that (I trained for a month at a BJJ school like this), and could do something to close the gap in the speed of promotion with the other art.

I suppose that could theoretically happen. To the best of my knowledge, my friend follows standard TKD and BJJ ranking guidelines at his school and has not had any issue with it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Could there potentially be a problem if the speed of promotion in one art affects how the school is going to promote in the other art?

The only thing that will affect the promotion is the person's skill set. You'll only have this problem if you are trying to promote someone on the basis of belt color.

Can you take a class that teaches a skill set that will help you learn the other class faster? Of course but you would still have to demonstrate your ability to be functional with that skill. No progresses through BJJ without functional skills. The same can be said about TKD if it's required that students spar and demonstrate through sparring their ability to use a technique

In a lot of TMA schools you don't need to show ability to use a technique through sparring. If you can demo the technique then you can be promoted. In grappling, you have to be functional. There's no way around it. The same cannot be said about TKD, Kung Fu, Karate, or similar systems.

If you focus on the skill set then it will be no problem. This way the speed that you are promoted is based on your usable skill set.

Someone gets an inferiority complex about the prestige of a BJJ black belt,

Focus on the skill not the belt. People who cannot do this will run into issues like this.

the black belt BJJ instructor could have hang-ups about frustrations in the past about being passed over, vowing not to make his or her own students go through that (I trained for a month at a BJJ school like this), and could do something to close the gap in the speed of promotion with the other art.

Let the students ability to apply the skills determine the promotion speed. Those who are having trouble just get extra help in learning the skills. It's up to the student to train and the instructo teach in a way that most can learn from and to adjust teaching method according to help students to grasp the ability.