Does anyone know how good Kamon Wing Chun is?

D

darkell

Guest
They are based in the UK mainly in and around the greater London area.

I've found a class of theirs that I can go that is basically on my way home from work. I'm trying to choose between this and a Shorinji Kempo class. Obviously I'm going to go to the class and see for my self but I was wondering if anyone here knows of them.

There web site is at http://kamonwingchun.com/

Thanks in advance for any info.
 
darkell said:
They are based in the UK mainly in and around the greater London area.

I've found a class of theirs that I can go that is basically on my way home from work. I'm trying to choose between this and a Shorinji Kempo class. Obviously I'm going to go to the class and see for my self but I was wondering if anyone here knows of them.

There web site is at http://kamonwingchun.com/

Thanks in advance for any info.
Click to expand...

Kamon is a large franchise with classes all over the UK, the quality of each individual class will depend upon the instructor of that class. I have had contact with a few good and a few not so good. When i say not so good, they do have the ability to teach you something and in the cases i have witnessed it still is wing chun just from a different perspective, for instance the chi sau and sensitivity work seems lacking but they were pretty sharp with step in drills etc. Of course what i say won't really help make up your mind, best thing to do is go down there and have a look for yourself. With a popular franchise like kamon you will easily come across people slating it for whatever reason, i say don't let any talk good or bad take priority over experiencing it for yourself. And like i say, it will depend upon the teacher in that class.

I wish you all the best in whatever art you choose to take on.
 
Thanks for the info. That class I'm looking at is the Covent Garden one. It's taught by three different instructors on three different nights. On the wednesday it taught by Master Kevin Chan himself so I think the other two guys would have to be pretty decent.

I like the fact that everyone who gets a black belt seems to have trained for at least 6 years. I think that's a pretty good sign. But I was put off by the amount of people in one of the grading photos. There were at least a hundred... I don't particularly want to become part of some little MA factory. I suppose if you have a big school it inevitable, and the crowd thins a lot as you go up the belts.

Like you say, I'll just have to go and see.

ed-swckf said:
Kamon is a large franchise with classes all over the UK, the quality of each individual class will depend upon the instructor of that class. I have had contact with a few good and a few not so good. When i say not so good, they do have the ability to teach you something and in the cases i have witnessed it still is wing chun just from a different perspective, for instance the chi sau and sensitivity work seems lacking but they were pretty sharp with step in drills etc. Of course what i say won't really help make up your mind, best thing to do is go down there and have a look for yourself. With a popular franchise like kamon you will easily come across people slating it for whatever reason, i say don't let any talk good or bad take priority over experiencing it for yourself. And like i say, it will depend upon the teacher in that class.

I wish you all the best in whatever art you choose to take on.
Click to expand...
 
darkell said:
Thanks for the info. That class I'm looking at is the Covent Garden one. It's taught by three different instructors on three different nights. On the wednesday it taught by Master Kevin Chan himself so I think the other two guys would have to be pretty decent.

I like the fact that everyone who gets a black belt seems to have trained for at least 6 years. I think that's a pretty good sign. But I was put off by the amount of people in one of the grading photos. There were at least a hundred... I don't particularly want to become part of some little MA factory. I suppose if you have a big school it inevitable, and the crowd thins a lot as you go up the belts.

Like you say, I'll just have to go and see.
Click to expand...

Hi there,

I train at Kamon. The reason that there are lots of people at the grading is because everyone is graded by Master Chan (with the help of top instructors). There are normally about 50 or so people grading for yellow 1 & 2 (the first 2 grades). The higher you get the less people there are grading. The ranking system goes yellow 1, yellow 2, red 1, red 2, green 1, green 2, brown 1, brown 2, black 1, 2, 3 & 4. I'm on Red 2 at the moment and I graded with about 7 other people. Greens there are normally about 5 people grading and the numbers deminish form there up.

Covent garden class is brilliant. Expect a good workout. There is another class in Crawley on a monday which is really good as well. As has been said before different instructors do different things. Some focus on fitness, clinching, fighting etc others focus on forms, technique & stationary drills such as lok sao. Thats what I enjoy about it though you get to train with different instructors of different sizes with different out looks. We are always told that Wing Chun is like a suit taylor made for you. A big person will use Wing Chun differently to a person of a slight build.

Master chan is also a brown belt in brazillian Jujitsu so at his classes there is normally some sort of clinch/ground work stuff going on. He's also doing seminars on ground work. I beleive he's trained in thai boxing as well.

I beleive that the first lesson is free so... not really anything to lose.

I hope that helps.

Regards

Pete
 
I haven't heard of them. But welcomes to you (darkell) and peterb. I don't do Ving Tsun (anouther spelling), but Coung Nhu has elements of system, so I hang out here sometimes.

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,

John
 
I am one of the instructors at Kamon.

I can say that the training is amongst the best you will find.

I do not understand why ed-swckf thinks the chi sao is lacking. I have trained in the USA and many of the wing chun schools in the UK and have not found any schools that did better chi sao and certainly not better than some of the senior instructors.

Kamon also includes a vast amount of knowledge of boxing, BJJ, MT and clinch techniques which are taught by professional instructors of those arts.

Reason for large grading is simple - we have 45 classes over London and you are never counted as just another wing chun drone

I have 20+ students in my class and know everything about them, what qualities they possess and my goal is to make sure they learn something

If you train hard, work hard and are an attentive student, you will do very well. I was an Average Joe and then went to Kamon. Now I'm winning tournaments, excelling at other martial arts and running a successfull class of skilled students
 
thanks for the links Kamon Guy.

Might I ask being that the head Sifu is Kevin Chan, where does the name Kamon come from?

Thanks in advance.


Guo Su,
 
So is Kamon a MMA or a derivative of WC? There are a few post where you described actions or movements as WC, when they sound more like WT or VT.
 
Changhfy said:
thanks for the links Kamon Guy.

Might I ask being that the head Sifu is Kevin Chan, where does the name Kamon come from?
Click to expand...
Kamon is Kevin Chan's given name (Kin Man)

It was called that to show respect towards his teachers and other schools
(ie saying that he is not the original wing chun and that only people like Ip Chun have te right to call themselves 'Wing Chun' etc)
 
brocklee said:
So is Kamon a MMA or a derivative of WC? There are a few post where you described actions or movements as WC, when they sound more like WT or VT.
Click to expand...

Heretic!!! I despise any suggested link between us and WT!!
For the record, we have no link towards WT.

Can I just say though (as you sound a bit confused) WT is WC!!

It might vary movements from classes you train at but many schools do.
WT is called WT because the founder of that art wanted to (like Kamon is called Kamon)

Kevin Chan was taught by Steve Mair (Sam Kwok Assoc.) before going to Hong Kong and training directly through Ip Chun. He has then trained with other various masters and understood what wing chun was trying to say.

Kamon is wing chun. We train every movement at the core of wing chun, including three hand forms, three non-hand forms, lok sao, dan chi sao, chi sao, feeding techniques, stamping kicks, chain punches, etc

The media gallery has Kevin Chan training other arts and often trains higher graded students other arts, but this is not part of lower level training, and is always mentioned as a separate art (ie if we train BJJ we know that it is BJJ. It is not disguised as wing chun)

I myself train in four different arts at the moment as well as wing chun
 
Kamon Guy said:
Heretic!!! I despise any suggested link between us and WT!!
For the record, we have no link towards WT.

Can I just say though (as you sound a bit confused) WT is WC!!

It might vary movements from classes you train at but many schools do.
WT is called WT because the founder of that art wanted to (like Kamon is called Kamon)

Kevin Chan was taught by Steve Mair (Sam Kwok Assoc.) before going to Hong Kong and training directly through Ip Chun. He has then trained with other various masters and understood what wing chun was trying to say.

Kamon is wing chun. We train every movement at the core of wing chun, including three hand forms, three non-hand forms, lok sao, dan chi sao, chi sao, feeding techniques, stamping kicks, chain punches, etc

The media gallery has Kevin Chan training other arts and often trains higher graded students other arts, but this is not part of lower level training, and is always mentioned as a separate art (ie if we train BJJ we know that it is BJJ. It is not disguised as wing chun)

I myself train in four different arts at the moment as well as wing chun
Click to expand...

That's why I was asking, I wasn't sure.

WT is called WT for a reason. That topic should be discussed under a different thread though.
 
Kamon Guy said:
Kamon is Kevin Chan's given name (Kin Man)
Click to expand...

Good thing it's not Kin Man Tau...
icon_smile_big.gif




brocklee said:
WT is called WT for a reason. That topic should be discussed under a different thread though.
Click to expand...

Maybe there should be one...
 
So is Kamon a MMA or a derivative of WC? There are a few post where you described actions or movements as WC, when they sound more like WT or VT

Actually VT- Ving Tsun is the same as Wing Chun, Ving Tsun is a more accurate way to translate from the chinese characters into english words.
Even though Wing Chun has become the more accepted translation.




take care
 
A person on another forum mentioned that the reason Leung Ting changed the name was because WC sounded like a toilet (Women's Convenience) and people would get confused distinguishing his brand

If every wing chun school went under the title 'Wing Chun', we wouldn't know who was who!!!

I don't see why finding out about lineages would get heated.
It doesn't really matter where you learnt a martial art as long as it makes sense! There was a group in America who fought in bars almost every night and formed their own school. They didn't learn fighting from any individual, but from experience fighting!

Kevin Chan started out learning under Sam Kwok but in the end went straight to Ip Chun and has since learnt from several other masters

Lineage is nice and does boost credibility, but I don't rely on it. I wouldn't refuse to train under a school that didn't specify lineage.

It's almost like eating food when you don't know the ingredients. As long as it tastes good....
 
Kamon Guy said:
I am one of the instructors at Kamon.

I can say that the training is amongst the best you will find.

I do not understand why ed-swckf thinks the chi sao is lacking. I have trained in the USA and many of the wing chun schools in the UK and have not found any schools that did better chi sao and certainly not better than some of the senior instructors.
Click to expand...

You are bound to say that however to enlighten you on why i said it was lacking is because in the classes and teachers i have seen it was lacking in quality and understanding. Now i did address the problem with large franchises in my initial post - which is that whilst there may be a lot of good instructors there can also be weaker ones with less skill especially with a franchise the size of kamon. I know kevin knows his stuff but with the large numbers not everyone gets quality time with kevin or even with the higher level instructors. So whilst at the top with ones that all associate with each other often there is a good quality there is also a lot of instructors that don't have the same quality to feed into a class - this has nothing to do with where you have trained and perhaps more to do with places you havent trained - unless you are saying that from experience all kamon schools have very good chi sao? I mean i did try to explain that my words were just of my experience and that the training will vary from class to class even within the kamon franchise. Perhaps its possible that i have been unlucky and seen more of the downside to kamon than the upside, i'll accept that and am happy to believe there to be many great kamon schools out there but it doesn't stop there also being some less great schools.

I honestly am not slating kamon i am seriously just being honest about my experiences and sharing them with someone who asked.
 
CheukMo said:
So??? Knowing the differences in styles and lineages is important in at least some cases, if not most.
Click to expand...

I believe we weren't talking about the style or lineage, but more about the politics.
 
Kamon Guy said:
A person on another forum mentioned that the reason Leung Ting changed the name was because WC sounded like a toilet (Women's Convenience) and people would get confused distinguishing his brand

If every wing chun school went under the title 'Wing Chun', we wouldn't know who was who!!!

I don't see why finding out about lineages would get heated.
It doesn't really matter where you learnt a martial art as long as it makes sense! There was a group in America who fought in bars almost every night and formed their own school. They didn't learn fighting from any individual, but from experience fighting!

Kevin Chan started out learning under Sam Kwok but in the end went straight to Ip Chun and has since learnt from several other masters

Lineage is nice and does boost credibility, but I don't rely on it. I wouldn't refuse to train under a school that didn't specify lineage.

It's almost like eating food when you don't know the ingredients. As long as it tastes good....
Click to expand...

I believe the WC you are referring to was for wash closet. I too have heard that but that's just someone being funny. My sifu not only teaches us WC, he also teaches us the history of Ip Man line. He tells us what students went where, who created what kuens, and who did what to whom. All this info was passed down the same way to him as he passes down to us. In the long run its kind of dramatic and would make a great plot for a gung fu movie but ends up being alot of people arguing about whats right.
 
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