Do you personally punch harder with bent arms compared to extended?

[windwalker099]

I talked to a karate fighter who participated in a study in which the karatekas had higher punch output when their straight punch arm was bent compared to extended. This was a surprise to them.

Could it be that there's greater bicep engagement when the arm is bent compared to straightened out? Also perhaps stronger wrist support at the point of impact?

Might want to look at kinetic chains and methods of momentum transfer. 'Bicep engagement' is part of what is known as force couples.

Chat GP

"

While the biceps are not the primary muscles in the force couple generating rotational power, they play a supportive role by:

Assisting with Elbow Flexion: During the preparatory phase or chambering of the punch.

Stabilizing the Arm: Ensuring that the elbow joint remains stable and aligned during the punch, which indirectly supports the rotational force.

Aiding in Retraction: Helping to bring the arm back after the punch, preparing the body for subsequent movements.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

View attachment 31917

Like this teacher and his methods. What is shown, an exaggerated demo...
Try doing that with a boxer, not going to be a good ending.



Mentioned the interaction because ?
Have you interacted with anyone who practices White Eyebrow.?


donno
Have you interacted acted with a White Eyebrow stylist?

per chat GP








Mentioned 'White Eyebrow' (Bak Mei) because I've sparred with a practitioner who accidentally tried to take my eye out, attributing it to their 'scared power.'

At the time, I was using Tibetan White Crane, which also has a unique punching method called the 'squeeze' method. This involves compressing the body and then explosively releasing the energy, like a coiled spring.

Others more experienced in the style can elaborate or correct.

I mentioned it because it goes with your whole thing. I thought you might like it. You have so many stories of you defeating this and that one. I thought I would add one. Have you defeated them as well ?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Sure. Exactly what I mean.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

View attachment 31917

Like this teacher and his methods. What is shown, an exaggerated demo...
Try doing that with a boxer, not going to be a good ending.



Mentioned the interaction because ?
Have you interacted with anyone who practices White Eyebrow.?


donno
Have you interacted acted with a White Eyebrow stylist?

per chat GP








Mentioned 'White Eyebrow' (Bak Mei) because I've sparred with a practitioner who accidentally tried to take my eye out, attributing it to their 'scared power.'

At the time, I was using Tibetan White Crane, which also has a unique punching method called the 'squeeze' method. This involves compressing the body and then explosively releasing the energy, like a coiled spring.

Others more experienced in the style can elaborate or correct.

I don’t know a CMA that doesn’t use coiling for generation. It’s not unique to one or another.

 

[windwalker099]

I mentioned it because it goes with your whole thing. I thought you might like it. You have so many stories of you defeating this and that one. I thought I would add one. Have you defeated them as well ?

I mentioned it because it goes with your whole thing.

My thing is sharing experience, whats your's ?

Have stories of those I've met from many yrs of practice.
Feel free to post a story posted by me mentioning "defeating this and that"

Have you defeated them as well ?

In my time in finding answers I've met and tested with a lot of people....
Think I mentioned the "Bak mei" guy accidentally trying to take an "eye" out.
It was during a sparring session, testing things out......
This would be in Germany during the cold war, In infantry unit
GI's with a little down time waiting for war

In the 70s, back in SF lots of CMA people around during this period.
no internet back then...things were tested face to face....

Enjoy reading others experience's, and thoughts.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Like this teacher and his methods. What is shown, an exaggerated demo...
Try doing that with a boxer, not going to be a good ending.

I think your comment is not fair. I can make the same comment about all those Taiji push hand videos. "Try doing that with a boxer, not going to be a good ending".

To be able to use "body method" in fighting is not easy. I have tried to use "body push/pull arms" method in my "rhino guard" when I tested my principle against boxers. It was just too slow to be combat effective. I had to use "body chase arms" method instead.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don’t know a CMA that doesn’t use coiling for generation. It’s not unique to one or another.

Compress/release is basic physics. It's used in all MA systems. Some CMA systems apply a fancy name for it. Others just treat it as "common sense".

If we live long enough, anything that we don't see in the ring, or on the mat may only exist in the illusion world.

 

[windwalker099]

I think your comment is not fair. I can make the same comment about your Taiji push hand videos. "Try doing that with a boxer, not going to be a good ending".

I have students who were boxers...
Any clip I post are of training methods...

You'r post seem to suggest that all clips are some kind of combat demo.
is this correct ?


As stated " I like the teacher".

Here he is not showing the exaggerated movement...
Is it a combat demo ?



His teacher

you mentioned

This video has "body method".

I said

Like this teacher and his methods. What is shown, an exaggerated demo.

or do you feel it's correct movement ?

 

[windwalker099]

Some CMA systems apply a fancy name for it. Others just treat it as "common sense".

Rhino guard, octopus strategy, ect.

sounds kinda fancy

All Chinese Martial Arts (CMA) express concepts through the language of their culture, when translated to English, might sound a bit different. Different styles might use different expression's meaning the same things.
Without direct interaction for some it might be hard to know....

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

or do you feel it's correct movement ?

In that video, his movement is not in combat speed. I don't know whether he can do that in combat speed or not.

You can throw 5 punches within 1 second. But to vibrate/rotate your body 5 times within 1 second is not easy (if not impossible). This is why I think anybody who can use "body push/pull arm" in combat speed, he must have high level skill.

When I tested my rhino guard against boxer, I did ask him to push as fast/hard as he can. If I used

- "body chase arm" method, I had no problem to block all his 20 punches.
- "body push/pull arm" method, my body won't be able to push my arm fast enough to block all his 20 punches.

 

[windwalker099]

f we live long enough, anything that we don't see in the ring, or on the mat may only exist in the illusion world.

Feel this is backwards...

No one gets shot in the ring....they do get kicked.
As can happen in the "illusion world" after getting shot..

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Feel this is backwards...

No one gets shot in the ring....they do get kicked.
As can happen in the "illusion world" after getting shot..

A: Do you believe in God?
B: If God does exist, he won't care whether I believe him or not. If God doesn't exist, whether I believe him or not make no difference.

 

[windwalker099]

A: Do you believe in God?
B: If God does exist, he won't care whether I believe him or not. If God doesn't exist, whether I believe him or not make no difference.

It might make a difference in how "you" approach "your" life.

Had a relative, who was shot and kicked on the ground after being shot a while back, he died.
71 at the time.

This is reality....Nothing to do with belief...

The ring, something most watch but don't participate in...
they talk about it..for those watching it's an illusion.
Until they get in the ring.

 

[marvin8]

In that video, his movement is not in combat speed. I don't know whether he can do that in combat speed or not.

You can throw 5 punches within 1 second. But to vibrate/rotate your body 5 times within 1 second is not easy (if not impossible). This is why I think anybody who can use "body push/pull arm" in combat speed, he must have high level skill.

Lu's punch is similar in "body method" to the boxing overhand. The overhand is combat proven to KO opponents in MMA and boxing. However depending on the context, Lu's punch can be considered telegraphing, where the opponent can see, move and/or defend against it.

In your GIF, Lu...

1. transfers his weight from the back foot to the front foot (heel-toe).

2. winds up by lifting his front heel with hands in front away from his face then cocks his rear hand while loading/shifting his weight to the back foot.

3. steps forward to the left shifting his weight with full rotation over his front foot, lands his heel, then lands the over hand right with a "bent arm."

Lu's "body method" violates your interpretation of 6H—hand and foot stop at the same time and elbow straight, knee straight. Lu could have landed the overhand after step one using economy of movement. I have explained the overhand in my Small Guy and Tyson fight GIFs. The overhand's power generation is different from karate's gyaku zuki (reverse punch).

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Lu's punch can be considered telegraphing, where the opponent can see, move and/or defend against it.

Usually, the circular attack (body push/pull limb) is set up by the straight-line attack. If you use circular attack as your 1st move, you always telegraph yourself.

I will never use overhand as my 1st attack. When I use hook punch as my 1st attack, I usually expect my opponent will block it.

 

[marvin8]

Usually, the circular attack (body push/pull limb) is set up by the straight-line attack. If you use circular attack as your 1st move, you always telegraph yourself.

I will never use overhand as my 1st attack. When I use hook punch as my 1st attack, I usually expect my opponent will block it.

Lead hook ("bent arm") is a common KO blow. Garcia...

1. delivers lead hook by shifting his weight from the front foot to the back foot KOing his opponent.

https://imgur.com/b21aJH7

 

[_Simon_]

Chuck Norris can punch harder when his arm isn't bent nor extended.

 

[marvin8]

In other episodes, Amemiya explains "Hamon" is the entry technique for the other 3 punches (with economy of movement). At 4:45, "It's more like throwing a baseball [boxing's overhand]."

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[JowGaWolf]

This video doesn't have body method.

I don't understand this one. It looks like bad Hung Ga, bad Choy Li Fut, or bad Jow Ga technique.

What is the context of this is he showing something an example movement from another system? I can only assume. I'm curious to see what technique he's demonstrating. But in terms of his movement, there's a lot of disconnect there. I know he's intentionally doing it incorrectly but I don't know what technique he's explaining.

Like this teacher and his methods. What is shown, an exaggerated demo...
Try doing that with a boxer, not going to be a good ending.

My understanding is that this is the only way to show how energy is moving in CMA. In fighting application that same movement would be much smaller. There's a saying that I used to always hear. "Train big so that you can use small." So in training everything is big motion but in fighting that same motion becomes smaller.

I don't know the system but it looks similar to a hook, redirect incoming strike, backfist movement that I use but instead of rolling into a backfist, it is rolled into a punch. If that's what I'm looking at then it would work against a boxer. The boxer will be able to see the hook but may not see the backfist as they do not train against it.

In general a trap backfist comes out the gate really quick it can be done before you can fire your second punch, I definitely wouldn't sleep on it. Now can he pull of the exaggerated version in a fight? Of course not, the exaggeration is not fight application.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Usually, the circular attack (body push/pull limb) is set up by the straight-line attack. If you use circular attack as your 1st move, you always telegraph yourself.

It's difficult to power circular movement without pulling towards the body first. A straight or an extend arm prepares the body for circular movement. We can see it here. When his left arm is straight he will have the movement that will power the circular movement. This type of movement powers the movement like a spark plug. It doesn't drive the power. Driving the power still comes from the legs and torso, plus foward movment. Circular movement also takes longer so it's always good to have a hand forward to defendt until that circular strike is on it's way.