There seems to be a lot of 'dumbing down' to get audiences in, mostly for TV companies I think. My other sport is Dressage riding, it's very technical (like kata for horses!) frankly it's only going to appeal to fellow enthuisiasts but the powers that be, mostly the Olympic commitees want it to be made easier, more spectator friendly for the TV cameras but if you aren't interested in horses you aren't going to watch whatever they do! The same with martial arts, if people aren't interested no amount of dumbing Judo and TKD is going to make them so why change the rules etc? All it does is ruin good effective styles and tuen them into not much more than staged film fights a la Jet Li etc.
Do you have a story on using BJJ in a REAL situation?
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KempoGuy06
Grandmaster
I had to subdue a guy at a bar with a choke because he hit one of my friends.
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Kenpojujitsu3
Master Black Belt
I can only take your word for this, as all of JJJ that I have seen did not look very much like bjj. I would be interested in what "ryu" had the same type of ground work as bjj, I have never claimed to have seen everything under the sun (just quite a bit of it). Thanks
Let's See you said the SAME type which is misleading. BJJ grappling is very heavily influenced by Western Wrestling (check the transitions) and also was borne out of a philosophy which used minimal striking. JJJ incorporated striking with it's groundwork as it was designed for fighting not for sport initially. Hense many of the transitions are different. But the core is the "same" Some examples are as follows.
1) Fusen Ryu JuJitsu which isn't as defunct as most people think it is...
2) Many schools of Danzan Ryu JuJitsu spend considerable time on the ground
3) Kosen Judo taught in VERY few places as "Kosen JuJitsu"
4) Many schools of Goshin JuJitsu or Goshin-Jitsu are VERY ground focused as Goshin Ju Jitsu has become almost as generic a term as "Karate"
5) and others as well..
If people disagree with you why don't they leave their name? I train, teach, teach, fight and ref MMA.I also manage and promote MMA fights and fighters. I do Juijitsu, Judo, Muay Thai, Karate, Aikido and anything else that helps me so yes I do speak as a matter of fact and am therefore not that incorrect!
Darth F.Takeda
Blue Belt
I do TJJ as you call it and we have all the basic positions and subs of BJJ, but they do do it differently, and as we have a few techniques on the ground you might not find in BJJ, They have some techniques on the ground we dont.
Many of us crosstrain in BJJ, or rip off some of the varients they use.
Many of us crosstrain in BJJ, or rip off some of the varients they use.
rocketrich
White Belt
How much Ju-jitsu or judo have you trained in? I thinks it funny when people talk about what is not in an art and have never seen it or only trained in in it for a little while. Or have not trained with true masters.
Marvin
Black Belt
Hi RocketRich, since you quoted me in your post I assume you want to know about "my" personal experiences in those arts? I have trained in judo jujitsu and aikido. I see in your posts that you are in mid michigan area. You should know who the judo and jujitsu and aikido instructors are / were in the Flint area. Beyond that shoot me an e-mail or call and we can talk about any questions you have about my experience.
Spinback
Yellow Belt
Hi guys, I'm new here. Just throwing in my two cents...
A lot of people are tossing around their martial arts resumes and claiming to know more than everyone else. My resume isn't very impressive so I won't do that.
But I have a lot of respect for BJJ. We've all seen what it can do in the octagon. From the little of it I know, I'd say it focuses intensively on getting a submission, which is why it's so successful. I've never had a real class of BJJ in my life; I learn the techniques by reading about them and watching videos. Before you start telling me that won't work... well, it does. My regular grappling buddy is fifty pounds heavier than me and an experienced wrestler who tried to learn BJJ the same way I did. He's in way better shape and (obviously) way stronger than I am, but I still beat him about half the time. Maybe I'm a special case, but the point I'm making is this: with nothing but the knowledge of a few BJJ techniques and my natural fight instinct I can beat bigger, stronger, faster opponents who have more training than me. So does BJJ work? Yes. Is it the best/most practical grappling art? There's no way to say.
You want an example from "real life"? I have one. Sort of. It's not an attempted mugging, but it's something.
I started dating a new girl recently and she invited some of her friends to our university to hang out. We were all walking down the hall way and her and one of her guy friends were play-wrestling. Jokingly, I told her to "tag" me, and when she did, grabbed the guy's head loosely. In response, he picked me up onto his shoulder.
I'm really not a big guy-- 150 lbs. I have alot of buddies that are bigger than me, so I'm used to getting picked up when we're playfighting or sport fighting. But the situation here went differently. What I didn't know about this guy I just met is that he's trained in CSW, incredibly competitive and likes people to be scared of him. I believe he wanted to make an impression on me. He weighs 170 lbs, and is a mass of muscle and energy. I was comfortable with him picking me up, but then things went sour.
He dropped me in a full-on body slam on the concrete floor. I realized halfway down he wasn't going to "catch" me, so I used my underhook-overhook combination to bear hug him and landed flat on my back to minimize the damage. When he realized I wasn't going to give up he tried to pick me up and slam me into the wall, but I had sank a guillotine choke and before he could lift me he was pounding the floor, gasping for air.
So it's not a street fight, but this is an example of a real-life scenario where a bigger, stronger, better fighter was actually trying to hurt me. And he did hurt me. My chest and back felt compacted for the next two days and I was short of breath for several hours. But I could have killed him with the guillotine, simple as that.
My answer: BJJ can be practical in a real fight if you use it at the right time, in the right way. But that doesn't mean you should go for a double leg if someone pulls a knife on you.
Hope I didn't bore everyone too much. In recent years I've become a really peaceful guy who just likes fighting, but when I was a kid I had a horrible temper. I used to fight every bully and punk on the playground, and I never lost. If you want me to pull some of those stories out (they're interesting, since I didn't know any technique at the time), just say the word. I like writing
A lot of people are tossing around their martial arts resumes and claiming to know more than everyone else. My resume isn't very impressive so I won't do that.
But I have a lot of respect for BJJ. We've all seen what it can do in the octagon. From the little of it I know, I'd say it focuses intensively on getting a submission, which is why it's so successful. I've never had a real class of BJJ in my life; I learn the techniques by reading about them and watching videos. Before you start telling me that won't work... well, it does. My regular grappling buddy is fifty pounds heavier than me and an experienced wrestler who tried to learn BJJ the same way I did. He's in way better shape and (obviously) way stronger than I am, but I still beat him about half the time. Maybe I'm a special case, but the point I'm making is this: with nothing but the knowledge of a few BJJ techniques and my natural fight instinct I can beat bigger, stronger, faster opponents who have more training than me. So does BJJ work? Yes. Is it the best/most practical grappling art? There's no way to say.
You want an example from "real life"? I have one. Sort of. It's not an attempted mugging, but it's something.
I started dating a new girl recently and she invited some of her friends to our university to hang out. We were all walking down the hall way and her and one of her guy friends were play-wrestling. Jokingly, I told her to "tag" me, and when she did, grabbed the guy's head loosely. In response, he picked me up onto his shoulder.
I'm really not a big guy-- 150 lbs. I have alot of buddies that are bigger than me, so I'm used to getting picked up when we're playfighting or sport fighting. But the situation here went differently. What I didn't know about this guy I just met is that he's trained in CSW, incredibly competitive and likes people to be scared of him. I believe he wanted to make an impression on me. He weighs 170 lbs, and is a mass of muscle and energy. I was comfortable with him picking me up, but then things went sour.
He dropped me in a full-on body slam on the concrete floor. I realized halfway down he wasn't going to "catch" me, so I used my underhook-overhook combination to bear hug him and landed flat on my back to minimize the damage. When he realized I wasn't going to give up he tried to pick me up and slam me into the wall, but I had sank a guillotine choke and before he could lift me he was pounding the floor, gasping for air.
So it's not a street fight, but this is an example of a real-life scenario where a bigger, stronger, better fighter was actually trying to hurt me. And he did hurt me. My chest and back felt compacted for the next two days and I was short of breath for several hours. But I could have killed him with the guillotine, simple as that.
My answer: BJJ can be practical in a real fight if you use it at the right time, in the right way. But that doesn't mean you should go for a double leg if someone pulls a knife on you.
Hope I didn't bore everyone too much. In recent years I've become a really peaceful guy who just likes fighting, but when I was a kid I had a horrible temper. I used to fight every bully and punk on the playground, and I never lost. If you want me to pull some of those stories out (they're interesting, since I didn't know any technique at the time), just say the word. I like writing
Razul eaox
White Belt
I have only once. i was messing around with another former wrestler, he thought i couldnt fight anymore because i took up other ground work, judo and jiu jitsu, so anyway we were messing around on the ground, then it got a little more serious. I could have easily opened up his face with an elbow but he is my friend. well he provoked me a little and i ended it in a leg lock.
Cruentus
Grandmaster
With these discussions, I find that there are a lot of assumptions as to what BJJ "is" and what it isn't. I recommend that if you haven't done so, that you actually take a class, and ask an instructor for solutions to problems that you would face in a "real" fight, vs competition. A good open-minded instructor will be happy to answer "what-if's" and "what-about" type questions if you catch him at a good time (not in the middle of an instructional but before or after class).
I have done some BJJ, but I am by no means an expert. I really need to get in and do some more training when my schedule permits (its my next "art" to learn). But I was pleasently surprised when talking and training with some Ciaque BJJ instructors http://www.caiquejiujitsu.com/(S(jf2yww55wmgvv255tc5tu445))/Default.aspx that they had some viable self-defense solutions as far as martial arts go. And no, it wasn't all "take them to the ground and submit them" solutions; if anything it was the opposite. Now, that could of been because the instructors I worked out with had military backgrounds and were self-defense minded, or it could have been the art, or both.
So, it matters who you talk too. But to me BJJ is like any other art that is good; it has a good delivery system, and it has good solutions to problems that fit the doctrine/strategy of that system.
But I do think that who you talk to matters.
I have done some BJJ, but I am by no means an expert. I really need to get in and do some more training when my schedule permits (its my next "art" to learn). But I was pleasently surprised when talking and training with some Ciaque BJJ instructors http://www.caiquejiujitsu.com/(S(jf2yww55wmgvv255tc5tu445))/Default.aspx that they had some viable self-defense solutions as far as martial arts go. And no, it wasn't all "take them to the ground and submit them" solutions; if anything it was the opposite. Now, that could of been because the instructors I worked out with had military backgrounds and were self-defense minded, or it could have been the art, or both.
So, it matters who you talk too. But to me BJJ is like any other art that is good; it has a good delivery system, and it has good solutions to problems that fit the doctrine/strategy of that system.
But I do think that who you talk to matters.
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