Do You Fast Track Talented Students?

[dancingalone]

How do you handle students who just 'get' it faster than others? They might be athletic with a natural physical affinity for martial arts, moving smoothly with good pop in their strikes. They throw combination strikes instinctively and paired with aggression, they're already out-sparring many students who have studied longer.

Do you stick with the "time in grade" requirements if you have them or do you fast track their rank promotions? If the latter, how many of you have run into problems later on precisely because of quick promotions?

Just a semi-rhetorical question...This particular situation is occurring in my friend's dojang, and I was curious how others handle it.

 

[terryl965]

I only test when they know all material. I do not have schedule testing at m school

 

[stickarts]

We have general minimum time requirements before students can test, however, if someone is working very hard and has their material extremely well, i will not hold them back. Students are trusting me to recognize when they attain their levels of training and i do that to the best of my ability. There is also extra material as well as other challenges we can give the students that are very motivated and want to advance more quickly.

 

[jks9199]

It's never been a problem; students learn as they learn. We have a five year minimum for black belt (and age 18) and I've never run into a student who was ready for black belt in less than five. Had a few who had to wait till they were 18... but that's just life.

 

[celtic_crippler]

I have no set testing schedule.

Students advance at their own pace; you get out of it what you put into it and that will show.

Therefore, students test when they've shown that they grasp the current curriculum. Time is not relevant other than how much time they've spent practicing.

 

[Omar B]

In my old school they had 1 small testing every last Saturday in the month that was by invitation only. The General testing was every 3 months.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Obviously a different MA and organization then what everyone else here is involved in, but the Kendo Federation has strict guidlines on grading. http://kendo-canada.com/ckf_gradinginfo.html
You must wait X amount of years before you may grade for the next rank.

I see some lower ranks who perform at a higher level on a regular basis, but they are not allowed to grade until they have their time in.

Its about fully maturing in the art, and not just making the grade.

 

[shesulsa]

I don't see myself enforcing time-in-grade requirements until half-black but I also don't have a regular testing schedule - when students are ready to move on, I test them.

It should be said that I look for more than just the memorization of a laundry list - I want to see maturity in technique, some level of understanding of how it works and why. I look for the recognition of the thread that is the theme of the art moving through the material.

Folks who get it quick get to help out with other students a rank lower.

 

[Flea]

Couldn't it cause a perception of preferential treatment?

 

[MattJ]

One reason I like the performance-based standards in arts like BJJ; you can't argue with fast-tracking someone if they really can beat everybody else!

 

[Draven]

How do you handle students who just 'get' it faster than others? They might be athletic with a natural physical affinity for martial arts, moving smoothly with good pop in their strikes. They throw combination strikes instinctively and paired with aggression, they're already out-sparring many students who have studied longer.

Do you stick with the "time in grade" requirements if you have them or do you fast track their rank promotions? If the latter, how many of you have run into problems later on precisely because of quick promotions?

Just a semi-rhetorical question...This particular situation is occurring in my friend's dojang, and I was curious how others handle it.

Patience is part of practice; I do offer extra-class time (no charge) for students who want to progress faster. That way if you want to get more from or do more with your training the only excuse you have is not working hard enough.

 

[Blindside]

Test a student when they are ready, seems pretty fair to me. If they are a natural and understand the material quicker, why would you stilt their growth in the art? Just to appease the feelings of people who can't walk and chew gum at the same time? How about teaching the less talented students the valuable lesson of "life ain't fair."

If the talented student doesn't demonstrate good technique then don't promote them, they don't know the art, but if they are "getting" the technique, I see no reason not to reward them.

 

[MJS]

How do you handle students who just 'get' it faster than others? They might be athletic with a natural physical affinity for martial arts, moving smoothly with good pop in their strikes. They throw combination strikes instinctively and paired with aggression, they're already out-sparring many students who have studied longer.

Do you stick with the "time in grade" requirements if you have them or do you fast track their rank promotions? If the latter, how many of you have run into problems later on precisely because of quick promotions?

Just a semi-rhetorical question...This particular situation is occurring in my friend's dojang, and I was curious how others handle it.

This is certainly a tricky situation. Move them faster= having a student end up going thru the ranks at a quick pace, possibly reaching BB level in a very short time or....hold them back= risk having them get bored and leave.

IMO, there is always something to work on, and there is a big difference between doing the material and really knowing the material. In many cases, the few times that I've come across those people, I can usually find something that they can work on.

I feel that there should be some sort of time restrictions in place. As I said, its easy to say that you know something, but how well do you know it? If someone was that quick, then technically, they could blaze thru the ranks, 1 every month, and be a BB in 1 year, which IMO, for anyone to reach BB in that time frame, well, its a joke, and I call BS on that.

If one were to go with the fast tracking, then perhaps at least make them wait half the time. That would be better than nothing.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

I abide by the concept that you are judged by your own potential. This negates the problem of talented vs. clumsy students. It isn't a standard between the two, but of one another. For example, if a dexterity challenged student, who at the beginning tripped over his/her own feet learns to competently perform his requirements, then he has vastly improved. Therefore, he/she has improved and has earned the right to test.

If a talented student, who doesn't have to try hard, is not challenged and is held up to the same standard as the clumsy student, they will never get anything of value out of their training. So the talented student should equally be challenged to push his/her own envelope.

So I guess to sum it up, we test on personal development. There will always be those who are inherently great at things, and not everyone is even capable of becoming an elite fighter. However, that doesn't mean those who are not should have a ceiling which they cannot test beyond.

If people are fast tracked, I believe it cheapens the rank. You should have to put in the hard work to achieve the personal improvement. No two persons improvement is the same, which is the difficult job of the instructor to judge and observe.

Just my two cents.

Respectfully,

Benjamin

 

[chaos1551]

Though I don't teach martial arts, I am familiar with teaching. My opinion is that there is little reason to hold someone back. If a person knows the material, they should be promoted. However, the little reason would be this: approaching black belt and beyond, the knowledge should be internalized (ready for use almost reflexively, placed in the memory in a quasi-permanent way). How can we determine if a person truly has the knowledge internalized? Nearing black belt level, it might be a good idea to make sure a student fully internalizes the knowledge by having them practice longer, stay at ranks longer, just due to the human condition about knowledge retention. Of course, there could be exceptions to this rule, though very, very few. Ultimately, the decision should be up to the (hopefully responsible) instructor.

 

[Grenadier]

If they are talented, and have put in the minimum number of hours needed for the exam, then why not? If someone's training diligently 4-5 times a week, they should be better than if they were training just 1-2 times a week.

Also, if someone with significant amounts of previous experience comes into the dojo, and can pick up on the fundamental techniques faster than the others, then I see no problem in fast tracking someone.

 

[Blindside]

I abide by the concept that you are judged by your own potential. This negates the problem of talented vs. clumsy students. It isn't a standard between the two, but of one another. For example, if a dexterity challenged student, who at the beginning tripped over his/her own feet learns to competently perform his requirements, then he has vastly improved. Therefore, he/she has improved and has earned the right to test.

I'm certainly hoping my surgeon wasn't "judged on his potiential" but was hopefully held to some high standard.

That said, I do agree with part of what you say, I will push that talented student to spend his time to be the best that he can be and ace his test, and similarly know that pushing another less talented student equally they will scrape by. But at some point if a student can't reach the testing standards, they don't test, regardless of potential. As one of my teachers once said "desire is not enough."

 

[SahBumNimRush]

I'm certainly hoping my surgeon wasn't "judged on his potiential" but was hopefully held to some high standard.

That said, I do agree with part of what you say, I will push that talented student to spend his time to be the best that he can be and ace his test, and similarly know that pushing another less talented student equally they will scrape by. But at some point if a student can't reach the testing standards, they don't test, regardless of potential. As one of my teachers once said "desire is not enough."

Yes, I suppose I should have made myself more clear in my statement. Obviously, there is a standard to passing the test. If the clumsier student has worked hard to scrape by, then he has earned his rank. If the talented student didn't work at all to "scrape by," then he never really earned his rank. The moral of the story is, not everyone has the same physical standard to live up to when it comes test time, but yes there is a minimum standard.

Rereading my post, I can see how it could come across that I am a supporter of black belt mills, but I am most certainly NOT! It took me 7 years of hard work to get to my 1st dan, but the "standard" was different in the early 80's then it is now, atleast in my Dojang. Now, MOST get to black belt in 3 or 4 years.. . But that's a discussion for another post

 

[Balrog]

Do you stick with the "time in grade" requirements if you have them or do you fast track their rank promotions?

No fast tracking. That only screws the student.

An analogy, if I may. You're baking a cake. The recipe calls for 3 hours at 250 degrees. You decide to jack it up to 500 degrees for an hour and a half. What do you wind up with?

Right: a half-baked cake. Same with the student. The passage of time is part of the training.

 

[Josh Oakley]

For me it depends on the student. For me to put you up for the test, you have to:

Know the material: You have to have a level of technique that shows you're ready for the highter-level material.

UNDERSTAND the material: A student might have really precise, nice-looking technique, but it's useless to them if they don't understand what it is they're doing. Otherwise they're just dancing.

have emotional maturity: A student might know and understand the material, but have the wrong attitudes about fighting or rank, or ettiquite. I don't want to unleash highly trained bullies into the world.

Get stress tested: My students don't know they're testing untill they receive an invitatation. But the class in which I give the invitation is usually the hardest. It's easy to talk about knowing, understanding, and maturity when things are easy. It's a little bit harder when he can barely breathe. That's when they show me what they're made of.