Do all roads lead to FMA?

[arnisandyz]

Originally posted by loki09789
sometimes the benefit of the technical, form skill they bring helps them learn and understand faster that an untrained student.

loki,

I agree with everthing you stated, except the above. Some things yes...someone with previous knowledge of another system already knows how to strike and perform other techniques, but as far as understand and learn FMA faster, I question that. Depending on the system, I'll use a TKD blackbelt student as an example, I usually have to go through at least 6 months to a year "deprogramming" to get the guy loosened up, to stop moving so rigid and to flow. One guy gave up because he couldn't let go and loosen up. On the other hand, I've trained someone who had no previous Martial Arts experience (my niece) but had spent years in ballet and dance, after 2 months she flowed very gracefully with a knife. I'm not saying you are wrong, it just depends.

Thanks

Andy

 

[Black Grass]

Originally posted by loki09789

Early on, there are many beginners who just don't appreciate, or need tighter and more specific instruction that other trad arts will give them to get going. The openess of FMA for a beginner can be very disconcerting. They generally want to be told what to do and when and leave the strategy/tactical thinking for later.

I believe we are talking teaching style as opposed to arts. Also were you learned the art. In terms of concept v. technique training.

From my experience in the Philippines it is much more regimented and more focus is given to the basics then in the west. I have had teachers in the FMA that were strict in terms of form correcting me as I repeat the same move over and over again.

Vince
aka Black Grass

 

[loki09789]

To both comments on my reply:

I see your points. With the Martial background, coming from a hard style could cause some problems adjusting. I guess I assume that all Black Belts learn to be conceptual and strategic in thought... that is not the case.

Of course I was only talking about FMA from my own experience, and I have no PI training experience. My stateside experience holds true to the concept focus (which could translate in some cases to sloppy technique) over technical focus. My personal instruction was more practical/application oriented over form oriented. If it worked, okay. Over time, with dilligence the technical will improve - but only because the technique is to make the application easier/efficient. At each rank progression, you had to be able to reasonably repel the attack. At each promotion, you had to be able to reasonably defend yourself with more and more artistic and technical proficiency. the technical focus is there, just as a component and not the end goal common to more traditional arts.

Paul Martin

 

[Cruentus]

Of course I was only talking about FMA from my own experience, and I have no PI training experience. My stateside experience holds true to the concept focus (which could translate in some cases to sloppy technique) over technical focus.

I think this had alot to do with Remy Presas, the way he taught, and the way that his methods were adopted by other instructors in america. As you remember I am sure, Remy didn't like to tell people they were wrong. He encouraged conceptual learning, and for people to make their own "innovation." This was good in a lot of ways, and not so good in others. One of the ways it was not so good is that anything anyone did was "very good," even if there was a much better way of doing the technique. People would then walk around saying, "This is the way Remy showed me" or "This is the way Remy told me to do it." when that way could of not been so good. I was lucky enough to have been told this by my seniors early on, so I knew to ask the right questions, and convey to him that my ego isn't so fragile that he can't tell me when I am doing something wrong. Once he understood that I WANTED criticism, he gave it to me much more frequently and harshly (unless, of course, he just wanted to beat me up, which he seemed to enjoy greatly... )

So in a lot of ways, I can see your point because I have a Remy Presas background too.

However, my Private lessons with Manong Ted Buot in Balintawak sound like this,

"No....NO!... That's wrong!.... Where was your left? .... Paul, where was your Timing?....You were LATE!....DON'T LOOK AT MY STICK! Look in my eyes.... Paul, where is your lean? THe Lean is very important to timing!.... THAT"S A BABY STRIKE! Put your whole body into that one....I want to see the whole enchalada in there!"

End of one hour. Other manong Ted students will know what I mean. Much different then Professor in that every little thing we do is critiqued so we can get better, which is the way I like it, frankly.

So I have 2 very different experiences from very different Manong's. So really, I don't know if the conceptual focus and lienency was a Remy thing or a cultural FMA thing (You weren't critiqued unless the teacher knew you could handle it).

I enjoy reading the other responses so I can learn what other experiences were like.

:asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by PAUL

However, my Private lessons with Manong Ted Buot in Balintawak sound like this,

"No....NO!... That's wrong!.... Where was your left? .... Paul, where was your Timing?....You were LATE!....DON'T LOOK AT MY STICK! Look in my eyes.... Paul, where is your lean? THe Lean is very important to timing!.... THAT"S A BABY STRIKE! Put your whole body into that one....I want to see the whole enchalada in there!"

End of one hour.

:rofl:

 

[loki09789]

Bobby sounded alot like that during one on one training, only it wasn't yelling. I would be flying as fast as I could to keep up and he would be barely working while there was a string of corrections and critiques at a conversational tone - more irritating than yelling for me because it totally contrasted my effort level to keep up.

He rewards effort though. Application/grit is as important as skill for him during pressure drills. If you are really moving in fight mode, he would say "good", "Come on, man", and stuff like that while he was also saying "keep your hand up", "I beat you there", "middle of the stick"... you know the game. He use to say he loves training cops and military because they already train for fighting and if they come for more training from him, they are motivated. He loves motivated training.

Paul Martin