dilemma

[skinters]

i have decided to take a complete break from wingchun .

i have taken a lot from my training so far, but need to step back as i feel my control and ego need reeling in.

my dilemma comes from something i have mentioned before and taken a lot of interest in .to me controling the ego,or to put it better moving the ego to one side is the most difficult thing i have been through,i mean its just so frustrating.now there have been times when im nearly there,that feeling you have when just for a fleeting moment the ego is just not there,your apponent is just a body in front of you,and his arms are just like the limbs of a tree,its like scrambling through a forest of trees and you just casualy push branches that get in your face to one side,if a branch wacks my face ,i feel it but pay it no mind and carry on.

this is the problem with it,if i have taken the time and insight to see this,i am just banging my head up against a brick wall because my apponents ego is let loose,when he gets hit he gets ruffled and stiff,red faced and wants nothing more but to get his hit in no matter what.this in turns ignites my already touchy ego and im back to square one.

i realised a long time ago that you can have have the perfect body perfect technique,but all this is useless,if the mind cannot control it .

i know it is a bit naff on times to mention or quote things bruce lee said,but one thing sticks out in my mind when he said about you have punches that do this and kicks that do that,but after all that, how can you express yourself honestly and completly not lying to oneself,its a very difficult thing to do .

 

[Blindside]

How will taking time off from WC benefit your perceived problem with ego control?

 

[hkfuie]

The more you fight it the stronger it becomes. Seriously...accept it, embrace it (ego) as part of yourself. It's scary to give in. But as you alluded and as Terry's quote says, your constant opponent in martial arts is yourself...your mind. I hope you find your way. BTW, did I hear you blame your opponent for your ego? Let your opponent take care of himself, maybe?

Skinters, I admire you for being so honest. Just ignore everything I said if it's not right for you. I only speak up because I recognize landscape I have seen and still see.

Best of luck to you. I agree with Blindside...martial arts makes you look at yourself because there is nowhere to hide. Everyone in class knows who you are after a while...it is the perfect place to face yourself. That is why you are finding the struggle there, imo.

 

[paulus]

This is just my opinion, so feel free to ignore it

Acknowledge your "problem". Reflect on it, think about how to resolve it, what to do differently, how best to move forwards. Then carry on training.

I have struggles myself that might be similar. I don't like it when we are chi sauing in class and my partner is so intent on making the strike that what we are doing no longer resembles chi sau. It becomes a fight. And because s/he uses too much force and makes all or nothing shots, I find myself doing the same. I get wound up, stressed and ***** annoyed. But I don't give up training. I feel bad about letting my emotions (or ego) get the better of me and promise myself I'll be more relaxed next time.

Of course it all depends on the answer to the question "do you want to get better at wing chun". If you don't then stop training. If you do, continue training and deal with difficulties as they arise. I don't think taking a complete break will solve the ego problem you describe, though it might help you decide what you want.

 

[skinters]

blindside

id rather step away completly,than just plod along .i look around me sometimes and know im not the only one who goes through this kind of thing.others may feel something is just not right nagging away but they carry on regardless and find themselves in a rut.i dont want to go through the motions.i have found in the past by stepping away from something you can get a much better look at it,and come back fresh with a changed outlook

hkfuie

thats exactly what im working on,giving in to it and not just my ego,but giving in to my apponent aswell if that makes any sense.i dont want to see others i train with as competition,or something i need proving.i have to maybe accept there are a lot of people not wanting or not knowing how to reflect this way....it sounds like i think im something else i know it sounds that way.

paulus

i do want to be better at wingchun thats why im willing to take a deeper look at it,and hopefully come back a bit wiser and forgiving.

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

What you describe as a problem is something that comes with several things:

1. Obtaining very high level skill.

That way you see the frustration in others a merely their stepping stone and motivation to get better.

This happens often in grappling circles, where everyday at practice it becomes Abu Dhabi or a tournament. That way there is less learning, because the aim is to dominate instead of learning to dominate better.

This comes with maturity in your skills and mental training.

2. Mental training.

Of course, that would mean that you would have to stay there training. The mental training aspect is something that is a bit more complex to write about, yet it is about finding that mental state of excellence and linking it to training. That way no matter how the other person reacts, you keep you cool and reach the "Zone of Excellence" mental state and keep it too.

Real easy to show you through the process, yet not that easy to write up.

If you consider a break, I would advise not more than a week or 2. More than that, and no benefit would come from it.

We have scheduled breaks in our training specially to avoid all the kinds of fatigue that can come from hard training.

Yet, a change in your mental training should come into effect so that you can control your mental states and not let them be so easily guided by your opponents... imagine the effect attackers might have then?

To me opponents, attackers and study partners are all different things.

Hope this helps.

Juan M. Mercado
Wing Chun Kuen Fat Si Fu

and an all around nice guy!

 

[mook jong man]

Like the Prof said don't take too much time off , it can be a hard road back , at least make sure you do your form everyday then you won't lose to much .
I have seen people stop because of injury and come back better than before , but only because they kept on doing the form .

But why don't you just keep on training and say to your self , I don't care what the partner does I won't hit him I will just control him so that he can't hit me , and if he does manage to get a couple through , so what .

See if you can do this for a couple of weeks , under no circumstances hit back , at the very least your defencive skills will go through the roof , after all it is easy to hit people , but it takes real skill to be able to control some one .

 

[paulus]

See if you can do this for a couple of weeks , under no circumstances hit back , at the very least your defencive skills will go through the roof , after all it is easy to hit people , but it takes real skill to be able to control some one .

Excellent idea this. It takes the pressure off trying to "win" and can help you to be more relaxed.

 

[skinters]

See if you can do this for a couple of weeks , under no circumstances hit back , at the very least your defencive skills will go through the roof , after all it is easy to hit people , but it takes real skill to be able to control some one .

and a great way to work on the ego.have thought of this one,and i approched it with my training partner saying ok look you come forwards as usual because i am working on something,as in not hiting back .i never got to put it into practice much but when i go back its how i am going to start .

i have talked about this before i feel its so important but never worked on ,well at least from me.im just going back to basics nothing more.thats the way i started chisao just relaxing into it.but hopefully this time around i wont get caught up in the ego type game of tag, i got you ,you got me etc.

i feel aswell i need to learn to lose before i get further into it ,give in to any notion of someone being better than me.

when i first started there was no pressure on being good at it,and i felt i reached a point where i had to step up the pace to further my own development . under the surface there was a lot going on where my mind is concerned which i never thought would bother me .

when i started this thread i wasnt looking for validation,or even expected anyone to reply to what is at the end of the day personal to me, although we all go through it to a higher or lesser degree. i just need to get my thoughts down,and if anyone stumbling in here can get anything from it,cant be bad eh .

thanks for all the comments .

 

[futsaowingchun]

i have decided to take a complete break from wingchun .

i have taken a lot from my training so far, but need to step back as i feel my control and ego need reeling in.

my dilemma comes from something i have mentioned before and taken a lot of interest in .to me controling the ego,or to put it better moving the ego to one side is the most difficult thing i have been through,i mean its just so frustrating.now there have been times when im nearly there,that feeling you have when just for a fleeting moment the ego is just not there,your apponent is just a body in front of you,and his arms are just like the limbs of a tree,its like scrambling through a forest of trees and you just casualy push branches that get in your face to one side,if a branch wacks my face ,i feel it but pay it no mind and carry on.

this is the problem with it,if i have taken the time and insight to see this,i am just banging my head up against a brick wall because my apponents ego is let loose,when he gets hit he gets ruffled and stiff,red faced and wants nothing more but to get his hit in no matter what.this in turns ignites my already touchy ego and im back to square one.

i realised a long time ago that you can have have the perfect body perfect technique,but all this is useless,if the mind cannot control it .

i know it is a bit naff on times to mention or quote things bruce lee said,but one thing sticks out in my mind when he said about you have punches that do this and kicks that do that,but after all that, how can you express yourself honestly and completly not lying to oneself,its a very difficult thing to do .

Good post..That is why I believe Kung Fu Training must involve the training of the mind not just the body. Chi Sao training if done right can be mental training. When you Chi sao try not to be overly competive also I believe when you get hit you should tank your training partner and not tryto retaliate. He jsut pointed out a weakness in you.So you should take note and trt to learn from it.It's about growing in the art not who is better.

 

[KamonGuy2]

Skinters, were you training in Kamon?

My advice is to get to a class like Covent Garden or Croydon which is full of black t-shirts who will help you with your ego problem lol

The best thing for ego is being humbled. My advice to you is to go into a lesson and let yourself get hit, whether in chi sao, sparring, drills etc

Since you have admitted your feeling s on here, it looks like you don't have that much of a problem though so dont panic

 

[matsu]

wow ive been away for 4 weeks ish due to work commitments etc. ive not been to the club or practised at all in that time and i feel nervous refreshed and anxious but i cant wait to get back tonight.
skinters-this isnt an ego problem i believe if youre like me this is fustration at lack of progression in yourself more than anything else
quote
i feel aswell i need to learn to lose before i get further into it ,give in to any notion of someone being better than me.

when i first started there was no pressure on being good at it,and i felt i reached a point where i had to step up the pace to further my own development . under the surface there was a lot going on where my mind is concerned which i never thought would bother me .

when i started this thread i wasnt looking for validation,or even expected anyone to reply to what is at the end of the day personal to me, although we all go through it to a higher or lesser degree. i just need to get my thoughts down,and if anyone stumbling in here can get anything from it,cant be bad eh .

this could almost be me most of the time.i get so fustrated that i cant deal with whats happening to me or i cant respond or control the situation.
but as the guys say dont give u just change tact.
dont hit back-get hit.... it will become a mission just not to get hit.
try a few private lessons with sifu or a leading student-let them work you through the problem
try a different sifu or even club for a while to get a different perspective?

good luck bruv

matsu

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Skinters: I kinda feel what you feel. When you get hit you want to fire away back. I know how it is. Sometimes I struggle with same thing. But I tend to strike strike strike first. An get my opponent on the offensive. This makes them go crazy an they strike me like crazy. An then I simply defend against them. But sometimes when My Sihing strikes me with force. I strike him more than usual just to piss him off.

See my Sihing is older in years and in MA's so he gets a little frustrated when I can touch him. I don't even give full out hard attacks. Just finger strikes against his chest or stomach. An occasional open palm to the cheek. But When I do he gets strong an all the sudden bam. After the first time receiving a hard front punch to lip. I realize even though I am moving slow he will speed up at any second to hit me. He is bigger and stronger than me. But if we are doing Chi Sau slowly I can strike slowly and defend slowly with out letting him in. This aggravates some people so they immediately move to faster pace. When they move faster I move faster to stop from being hit as much. Of course many times Chi Sau goes from practice to onslaught sparring. But still I get some minutes in before others get frustrated.

The reason people stop doing drills is because they are getting frustrated an just want to hit you. Don't take it personal it just means your really good and they can not touch you unless they hit you with surprise fast ball. In other words a good ole cheap shot when you think they are going to maintain the same speed as you.

My Sidai years ago who was also bigger and stronger than me. Would always revert to sparring five to ten minutes after chi sau. Which in turn made my blocks faster. See he would do light taps at first. But when frustration sets in he would throw hard punches and kicks. I remember once when I thought he was going to be light contact I got an hard elbow to the nose. I felt like I saw stars...wow the pain. But any way I was simply a beginner than six months in. I learn to always be ready. At anymoment he could strike for real. Even in high school when would play mortal combat. One time I defeated him with Raiden and Lu Kang. both times my eye were close. I listen to sound judge where he was at. Another time I was beating him so badly he turn off the TV and kept attacking. We could hear the sound because the Audio was routed to my Pioneer receiver an played through my 15" speakers in my room. I listen and timed his attacked. When it said finishe him he turned on televison set an saw his man wobbling. Then he said its time to spar. He was ready for hard contact due to frustration.

We had another friend who was wrestler. Big and muscular. I was and still am very skinny. He would always attack an start throwing punches. I always thought he was just playing or spariring. But my Sidai told me one time the other guy be for real trying to take my head off. He would get pissed because I was able to block his attacks so easily. Now and days I know my skill is not like when I was 16-18. But I have increased in other ways now. I am not looking to increase my blocks like from back then. I didn't realize that people would get frustrated when you can strike them at will or block their attacks at will.

So remember if your good at blocking. People ego will cause them to hit you harder because they want to prove you can be hit.

If you can hit them at will. They will try to hit you extremely hard to make you stop hitting.

Sometimes my Sihing tries to hit me extremely hard to stop me from striking him. His theory is if Bust you in the head you can hit me after I hit you. Most of the time when He makes contact like with a palm strike to my chest. I follow his arm back in an attack his gate. This pisses him off too. So sometime when we trade hit for hit he will strike hard with a front punch to face. Last time I got his fist in my right hand after pak sauing his knuckles and moving my head back out of the way of the force.

wow ive been away for 4 weeks ish due to work commitments etc. ive not been to the club or practised at all in that time and i feel nervous refreshed and anxious but i cant wait to get back tonight.
skinters-this isnt an ego problem i believe if youre like me this is fustration at lack of progression in yourself more than anything else
quote
i feel aswell i need to learn to lose before i get further into it ,give in to any notion of someone being better than me.

when i first started there was no pressure on being good at it,and i felt i reached a point where i had to step up the pace to further my own development . under the surface there was a lot going on where my mind is concerned which i never thought would bother me .

when i started this thread i wasnt looking for validation,or even expected anyone to reply to what is at the end of the day personal to me, although we all go through it to a higher or lesser degree. i just need to get my thoughts down,and if anyone stumbling in here can get anything from it,cant be bad eh .

this could almost be me most of the time.i get so fustrated that i cant deal with whats happening to me or i cant respond or control the situation.
but as the guys say dont give u just change tact.
dont hit back-get hit.... it will become a mission just not to get hit.
try a few private lessons with sifu or a leading student-let them work you through the problem
try a different sifu or even club for a while to get a different perspective?

good luck bruv

matsu