pulling your punches

[matsu]

as a beginner in wing chun i have a bit of a problem with contact.i think its not wanting to make a mistake-pressing in on the technique and hurting the opponent but i am sure that will dissipate as i progress and get more confident.i am usually so wrapped up metally in getting the technique right my distancing is nealry forgotten untill its too late... again will correct itself as i get better and more confident.
i am more than happy to take a few slaps punches and palm strikes to the chin and regualrly do as i am working with more experienced people who destroy my guard lol!!:shock:
but much less than a few months ago!!

unfortunaelty i have a few training partners who just wanna land a punch or show how fast /clever they are wether its any good for them or for me to work with/against and that fustrates the hell out of me. esp as i try to train in a manner that helps them at whatever level they may be!
ok rant over....pheeew!

we are taught to connect but with control. ie if you connect but with slightly bent arm you know you could have pushed it and created some damage!
tahnks for all the tips and advice this has been an educational thread

matsu

 

[skinters]

unfortunaelty i have a few training partners who just wanna land a punch or show how fast /clever they are wether its any good for them or for me to work with/against and that fustrates the hell out of me. esp as i try to train in a manner that helps them at whatever level they may be!
ok rant over....pheeew!


matsu

if you find someone like this who is getting through/clever etc,good.this reminds me of something someone said at class one time,when they found themselves chisao with this guy who comes through with good firm but controled strikes,he said "looks like ive drawn the short straw then tut " i thought to myself to train with someone good like that no matter if they arrogant or whatever is an opportunity,and not something to be avoided.

you are there to help your fellow students,but not in a passive way ,never be mistaken that your in charge of your own development, and a tough skin helps when you faced with awkward partners.

 

[matsu]

yeah mate
i like training with someone who is good and esp if they are better than me ,i know i will learn more.
but two guys esp are there to jsut throw punches or to "beat" me at all costs.even if their technique is not good for them or for me.
i know eventually i will get better and then be able to deal with and be bettter than they are but at the moment it dont help my training esp if i end up with him all hour so i dont get to improve my technique.
i can take what they throw at me, a few advanced guys have been known to throw a few hits in to "test" the newbies and ive taken mine and gone back for more, thats the deal in MA.
and as i get better i,ll be able to throw back as good lol!
sorry rant over. its cool!

as i said earlier thanks for the help guys!!
matsu

 

[Jimi]

I guess I am misunderstanding the term hit for contact. In a drill, if my partner makes CONTACT IE: palm to jaw, fist to chin, finger tip to throat, and it is just to tag the target with control, I say good job. If my partner hits me, as in the instructor says work pak da lop da, and each time he actually strikes me in the nose even 3/4 power, thats a deal breaker. If we are sparring, it's a different story. But if we are working on something in-particular for one partner to work to the advantage for the skill and insight of training and he just wants to hit me like I'm a heavy bag, I call BS! I don't mind contact, that is part of the game, but hitting for the sake of "Thats how it should be done in the streets," is an excuse, then take it outside in the gutter like decent thugs. LOL. If you feel it's ok to work pak da and HIT each others nose solid, you will soon be an ugly bunch of CHUNNERS so to speak. Hitting hard is great in the right place with-in training. Hitting solid all the time with no regard for the training is just not right. Here's an analogy. In football practice the team runs plays to work on the effectiveness of the players & stratagey. The Defensive Captains plays should workout that someone should get to the Quarterback to down him and end the play. If 6 times out of 10 the play is successfull but the tackling player impacts the Quarterback as if it were game day, your Q.B. gets wrecked before the big game. So my point is I dislike someone willing to risk wrecking a training partner that has put his skin on the line for you. Again, I have no problem with a little bangin', it happens. If someone feels that I am making an arguement for the crybabies, then you are misreading me. My first instructor said "You only get one training partner" meaning if you injure a partner only once without regard, that's the only one you will get, cause no-one else will partner up with you. Some people want this, "I am so badass that no-one in my Kwoon will partner up with me cause I am so street" thats an ego thing alright. I will try to sum up. Deliberate control contact in drills then full bore on mitts, bags & sparring okay. Near full bore without regard during drills is a BOZO NONO. Hope I am understood.

 

[skinters]

jim

we all on the same page with this where contact is concerned,those guys out there who just want to hurt others and get a kick out of it although a reality,is quite rare what i have seen .

on the main my contact is quiet light but on occasion when the hand springs forwards you make slightly more contact .i remeber not so long ago someone came in with a elbow on me i managed to get a hand on the side of it,but mistakingly put pressure on it,the hand slipped and i got hit on the eye brow with a full elbow,had slight concussion .ive seen split lips and all sorts brusies and grazes,and thankfully as far as i am aware just part of it.

i never strike to the nose area even light,no bil gee to dangerous, and i agree if you going to do any full on strikes get the pads out and bang away.

 

[KamonGuy2]

I guess I am misunderstanding the term hit for contact. In a drill, if my partner makes CONTACT IE: palm to jaw, fist to chin, finger tip to throat, and it is just to tag the target with control, I say good job. If my partner hits me, as in the instructor says work pak da lop da, and each time he actually strikes me in the nose even 3/4 power, thats a deal breaker. If we are sparring, it's a different story. But if we are working on something in-particular for one partner to work to the advantage for the skill and insight of training and he just wants to hit me like I'm a heavy bag, I call BS! I don't mind contact, that is part of the game, but hitting for the sake of "Thats how it should be done in the streets," is an excuse, then take it outside in the gutter like decent thugs. LOL. If you feel it's ok to work pak da and HIT each others nose solid, you will soon be an ugly bunch of CHUNNERS so to speak. Hitting hard is great in the right place with-in training. Hitting solid all the time with no regard for the training is just not right. Here's an analogy. In football practice the team runs plays to work on the effectiveness of the players & stratagey. The Defensive Captains plays should workout that someone should get to the Quarterback to down him and end the play. If 6 times out of 10 the play is successfull but the tackling player impacts the Quarterback as if it were game day, your Q.B. gets wrecked before the big game. So my point is I dislike someone willing to risk wrecking a training partner that has put his skin on the line for you. Again, I have no problem with a little bangin', it happens. If someone feels that I am making an arguement for the crybabies, then you are misreading me. My first instructor said "You only get one training partner" meaning if you injure a partner only once without regard, that's the only one you will get, cause no-one else will partner up with you. Some people want this, "I am so badass that no-one in my Kwoon will partner up with me cause I am so street" thats an ego thing alright. I will try to sum up. Deliberate control contact in drills then full bore on mitts, bags & sparring okay. Near full bore without regard during drills is a BOZO NONO. Hope I am understood.

I think it depends on the intent. I have been to schools where students hit hard because they have been wound up by the days events and have a grudge. So they take it out on a training partner
That is a definate no no

However, it is important at higher levels to start working 'full' contact. By this I mean power hits to the sternum so that they know how hard they are hitting or not hitting and at the same time training their partner to accept hard hits
Obviously, hard hits to the nose, chops to the throat or arm breaks etc can't be done full contact as they are fight finishers and will take your training partner out of the equation, but it is a good idea at high level to experience hard tough training, not just the namby pamby rubbish you see in many arts

I am not talking about walking into a kwoon doing a drill with a beginner and smashig his face in. That is unacceptable.

I am talking about students who have trained their fundamental wing chun skills and have got to instructor level
They should know how to deliver and accept full impact strikes to face stomach, chest, ribs

In Kamon we enjoy sparring at more advanced classes. At lower levels it is done lightly and working on positioning, but instructors are expected to work each other hard

I hate seeing 'fighting arts' where people have never been hit.

My friend was telling about a youtube clip where a guy was saying he could beat any UFC fighter in the world
A person accepted his request and smacked him straight in the nose and the guy looked like he had never been hit before!!
I'll try and get hold of the URL (if it hasn't already been posted)

 

[profesormental]

Ohh, I forgot to mention another very, VERY important point!

When you train with the risk of getting hit, even if it is NOT really hard, turn of on an adrenaline dump.

Training to hardwire your skills while having an adrenaline dump is very important to be able to keep your skills in a real situation where you'll suffer from the Adrenaline Stress Syndrome.

Thus it is an important part of training if the applications are for self defense.

Hope this helps.

Juan M. Mercado

 

[KamonGuy2]

Ohh, I forgot to mention another very, VERY important point!

When you train with the risk of getting hit, even if it is NOT really hard, turn of on an adrenaline dump.

Training to hardwire your skills while having an adrenaline dump is very important to be able to keep your skills in a real situation where you'll suffer from the Adrenaline Stress Syndrome.

Thus it is an important part of training if the applications are for self defense.

Hope this helps.

Juan M. Mercado

Good point Mercado. Also the fear of getting hit can be very healthy.
If you train 'safe' (ie knowing that your partner isn't allowed to hit you) you get a false sense of security
In Kamon, our Sifu constantly mentions that we will very likely be hit at some point during a real confrontation. Too many chunners think they are untouchable. Simple fact is no matter how good you are, you are always going to get some sort of hit

 

[naneek]

training with contact is great fun but i feel we must respect each other enough to train with the proper levels of contact for each person, for some that is very minimal or even none at all, this is fine different strokes for different folks eh. some people relish contact(including me) but it isnt for everyone

 

[JadeDragon3]

Lets be honest here, Martial Arts is a contact sport. Your going to get hit. If you don't then your doing something wrong. No contact is like playing football and saying you can't tackle the guy with the ball. I suppose you could not make contact but then the question is "is it really martial arts?"

 

[Jimi]

To address the football analogy, It's like playing football and saying you can't tackle the guy with the ball. I agree, you should play with the intent to tackle as needed, but my point is that not every tackle should be done with the intent to put the player on a stretcher. It's the I'll kill you if you make the mistake that lets me tackle you, so I will spear you, or clip you whatever at all costs because this is football Or (Martial Arts). And you know there are guys out there with that mentality both in football & martial arts. Come on, MAN UP! I was just playing football. I am not advocating that training should exclude contact, I am saying it should be under control or even with gear at times. Anyone saying my training must simulate real street confrontation so every drill I must strike deliberate and hard is not understanding the art & it's training. If you feel every training session should be a near all out street like test of your skill (Or Toughness) go join the military or a gang. LOL. My opinion is simply that those who do just want to POP someone in training should be kept in check by a Sifu or Instructor, so training does not turn into a game of friendly football gone bad with everyone trying to cripple each other. Again not against contact, just against the attitude "If I do not strike hard every time in training then I am killing my art." Contact should be made, and if you are of the steel that needs that heavy, intentional, deliberate & hard hitting tough guy ritual, best of luck. Those of us who have suffered the consequnces of a real street confrontation (Scars, Broken Nose, Lazy Eye ETC..) know the results are final and undesputable. Just be safe tough guys (Who ever you are) PEACE JIMI

 

[JadeDragon3]

As I stated before in previous posts, I'm not advocating going out and killing your sparring partner. Just that some contact should be made. My personal choice of contact is somewhere between medium and hard contact. People that don't think any contact should be made is sugar coating thier training. My philosophy is this....We don't live in a sugar coated world so don't train that way.

 

[KamonGuy2]

Lets be honest here, Martial Arts is a contact sport. Your going to get hit. If you don't then your doing something wrong. No contact is like playing football and saying you can't tackle the guy with the ball. I suppose you could not make contact but then the question is "is it really martial arts?"

Well put!! Its like me watching golf on TV and saying I play golf. People are all up for training a martial art but when it gets physical (doing exercise or experiencing hard contact), they wince away

Obviously there is a difference between gettig a contact and getting hurt

If you are training everyday and getting hurt, you are doing something wrong. But certainly you should be leading up to taking full contact

I've seen black belts in martial arts who have never been hit before. How can they say they are martial artists with a straight face